England v Australia 2025 - coming to the UK!

[gingerjon]

Interesting that this is on the official Kangaroos account:

Somebody, somewhere, has put a spreadsheet with some big numbers on it in front of the NRL.

[WN83]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I don't wanna be the negative head in the room, but I do think people are getting a little over excited and OTT in terms of records being smashed.

Reasons to be pessimistic:

1. If the record in the UK is 140k, the last schedule couldn't break that. (63k, 37k and 28k capacities). We announced those grounds in 2019, and I see little that has changed that would make us suddenly go more ambitious.

2. Our last few games versus the Aussies over here have seen 35k, 45k, 34k - well away from some of the numbers we talk about here. I dont think the Kangaroos brand is anywhere near as strong even in RL circles as we think.

3. We can talk about the Ashes brand giving a boost, but there isn't a load of evidence that supports that. We've only broken the 40k average crowd mark twice, and that was 1990 and 1994.

4. The last World Cup showed that while we have a decent level of interest in England, unless the planning and pricing is spot on, our crowds are extremely volatile and can be disappointing.

 

Reasons for optimism

1. Some real genuine green shoots over the last 15 years or so for the England team. 67k at Wembley for a game versus the Kiwis was genuinely brilliant. 45k versus the Kiwis at Olympic St was also very good. 43k in Newcastle too.

2. 67k and 73k at Old Trafford for well organised neutral world cup finals (plus almost 30k for the neutral semi final) shows that we do have tens of thousands of people who are happy to spend money on international RL and fill stadiums.

 

I think we should be excited, and I'd love to see us aim to beat that 57k record crowd, but in reality, getting 40k averages would be superb.

 

 

You'd hope the wait for an Ashes series would bring plenty of hype and would also really excite the every day rugby league fan and motivate them to get off their backsides.  It's tough to work out because we don't have any recent history of playing an Ashes series in bigger stadiums. We only really moved to having games at bigger football stadiums when the Tri Nations and Four Nations came in to effect and you have to go all the way back to the early 90's for regular Ashes tests at Old Trafford, Wembley, Elland Road etc. We got just shy of 39,000 on at the Etihad in 2003 looking on Google and thinking optimistically you'd like to think we could go past that in every game next year.

One thing a 3 match series tends to offer, that a Four Nations may not do, is a knock on impact on attendances on the previous test. That works both ways but have a great first test and win it and if you have the room in the grounds, I think plenty then make snap decisions to attend the next test or two. As an example, If you beat New Zealand in the first game of a Four Nations, it won't offer the same impact in the next game against a Tonga/Samoa/France etc, as beating Australia in an Ashes test (game 1 or 2) would, with games to come against the same opposition and the chance of history being made. The gambler in me would put somewhere like Old Trafford or the Etihad as the 3rd game, in the hope the series is alive. I'd say London but the short notice of it all becomes an issue with the travel. 

Edited October 30, 2024 by WN83

[Hanover XIII]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

It's "so many jokes, so many sneers / and all those oh-so-nears".

They wear you down

[JonM]

15 hours ago, Hopie said:

Wembley and not run by the usual suspects, could be interesting. (Although we do need those profits to keep the game alive)

Having an Eddie Hearn (or Simon Moran) type figure take on the London test could be an interesting proposition. There's a set of fixed costs (£750K to hire Wembley, hotels for the teams etc.) and a range of possible revenues (say 40K x £25 = £1 million up to 80K & £50 = 4 million). If some entrepreneur were to cover the costs and guarantee say £500K plus say a couple of quid per ticket sold to ensure the RFL have some skin in the game, that might be a win for both parties? It would allow the RFL to concentrate on giving away tickets on Groupon, offers to Salford season ticket holders etc. to sell the Manchester game and the London promoter could make his or her own decisions about marketing that game and keep any profits they generate for themselves.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, JonM said:

Having an Eddie Hearn (or Simon Moran) type figure take on the London test could be an interesting proposition. There's a set of fixed costs (£750K to hire Wembley, hotels for the teams etc.) and a range of possible revenues (say 40K x £25 = £1 million up to 80K & £50 = 4 million). If some entrepreneur were to cover the costs and guarantee say £500K plus say a couple of quid per ticket sold to ensure the RFL have some skin in the game, that might be a win for both parties? It would allow the RFL to concentrate on giving away tickets on Groupon, offers to Salford season ticket holders etc. to sell the Manchester game and the London promoter could make his or her own decisions about marketing that game and keep any profits they generate for themselves.

I don't hate that idea as much as I thought I would.

[sam4731]

5 minutes ago, JonM said:

Having an Eddie Hearn (or Simon Moran) type figure take on the London test could be an interesting proposition. There's a set of fixed costs (£750K to hire Wembley, hotels for the teams etc.) and a range of possible revenues (say 40K x £25 = £1 million up to 80K & £50 = 4 million). If some entrepreneur were to cover the costs and guarantee say £500K plus say a couple of quid per ticket sold to ensure the RFL have some skin in the game, that might be a win for both parties? It would allow the RFL to concentrate on giving away tickets on Groupon, offers to Salford season ticket holders etc. to sell the Manchester game and the London promoter could make his or her own decisions about marketing that game and keep any profits they generate for themselves.

I always we need to make use of private consultants/investors more. Before I get merged, any potential outsiders need to be given a lot more independent influence than any current consultancy organisation that will not be named.

When Eddie Hearn was interested, I know a lot if people were sceptical but the Ashes would be the perfect event to give them.

[WN83]

I'd be surprised if it were Eddie Hearn now he's riding the Saudi Arabia money train. Maybe he's bored though and wants something closer to home. It would be an extremely interesting experiment though, especially if Antony Joshua lines up at prop and we get Luke Littler in the 7 shirt. 

[gingerjon]

It would definitely be better if it were "somebody like Eddie Hearn" as opposed to actual Eddie Hearn.

[JonM]

Other 'mystery promoters' are available.

[sam4731]

47 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Interesting that this is on the official Kangaroos account:

Somebody, somewhere, has put a spreadsheet with some big numbers on it in front of the NRL.

There were a lot of people that thought that last years test series against Tonga and this year against Samoa was going to be a big factor in Australia's appetite for an Ashes series as they probably thought that if we couldn't beat them, an Ashes series would just be a walkover.

I hope there is a real desire now to make this a huge event on both sides now.

[Hopie]

28 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don't hate that idea as much as I thought I would.

If it works we can steal their ideas, I mean, work with them again in the future.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Let’s get it on!

 

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

There were a lot of people that thought that last years test series against Tonga and this year against Samoa was going to be a big factor in Australia's appetite for an Ashes series as they probably thought that if we couldn't beat them, an Ashes series would just be a walkover.

I hope there is a real desire now to make this a huge event on both sides now.

The potential competitiveness of the games will have had zero bearing on this.

It's money.

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The potential competitiveness of the games will have had zero bearing on this.

It's money.

Money in the main yes, but I agree with the previous poster that if England had been pumped by Samoa and Tonga it would be much less appealing to Australia, they won’t want to come all this way for uncompetitive games. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Eddie said:

Money in the main yes, but I agree with the previous poster that if England had been pumped by Samoa and Tonga it would be much less appealing to Australia, they won’t want to come all this way for uncompetitive games. 

Have you met the NRL?

If some lucky boyo in downtown Aberdare had won the EuroMillions and decided to throw it at the Kangaroos touring the Principality, you'd be seeing the green and gold running out at Ynys Stadium (yes, I looked it up) before you could say knife.

The fact they're floating things like games v Wigan just makes me think there's been some serious work in the background on this on numbers and how to turn a profit big enough to keep everyone happy.

A competitive series would be the bonus, not the motivator.

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Have you met the NRL?

If some lucky boyo in downtown Aberdare had won the EuroMillions and decided to throw it at the Kangaroos touring the Principality, you'd be seeing the green and gold running out at Ynys Stadium (yes, I looked it up) before you could say knife.

The fact they're floating things like games v Wigan just makes me think there's been some serious work in the background on this on numbers and how to turn a profit big enough to keep everyone happy.

A competitive series would be the bonus, not the motivator.

I don’t agree, though one good thing is if they play Wigan there’s unlikely to be a test match there also. Hopefully they’ll play Wire as well. 

[JonM]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Have you met the NRL?

If some lucky boyo in downtown Aberdare had won the EuroMillions and decided to throw it at the Kangaroos touring the Principality, you'd be seeing the green and gold running out at Ynys Stadium (yes, I looked it up) before you could say knife.

Can't be more than a couple of million for their share of gate receipts, which doesn't seem to move the dial that much in comparison with the NRL tv contract? I guess you can add on any possible sponsorships, tv revenue etc. but it still doesn't seem like a huge moneyspinner? Although I guess it's money direct to the ARLC rather to the NRL clubs.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, JonM said:

Can't be more than a couple of million for their share of gate receipts, which doesn't seem to move the dial that much in comparison with the NRL tv contract? I guess you can add on any possible sponsorships, tv revenue etc. but it still doesn't seem like a huge moneyspinner? Although I guess it's money direct to the ARLC rather to the NRL clubs.

I'm also going to assume that Vegas is proving to be a millstone and not a money spinner.

Notable that the Kangaroos don't currently have a naming sponsor. They were the Gallagher Kangaroos last year and the CommBank Matildas and Subway Socceroos still exist.

It may not be that much (by Aussie standards) but if it's risk free then ...

[Sports Prophet]

A lot of comments are around the required marketing to get these matches full but further more, I have never thought the RFL had much by way of a sales strategy or much of a sales team.

So this prompted me right now to check LinkedIn for who the sales staff are at RL Commercial. Unless I have overlooked something, not a single person. Not surprising then the sales are usually underwhelming for these big England RL events.

 

Edited October 30, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Damien]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Interesting that this is on the official Kangaroos account:

Somebody, somewhere, has put a spreadsheet with some big numbers on it in front of the NRL.

They could easily come across with a mid week side and play club teams in the week to really good crowds which would be a nice earner all round.

[Sports Prophet]

23 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t agree, though one good thing is if they play Wigan there’s unlikely to be a test match there also. Hopefully they’ll play Wire as well. 

With that theory, I hope they play Leigh too  

[northamptoncougar]

Play France / Yorkshire and Cumbria, bring back the old school feel.

[JonM]

12 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

Play France / Yorkshire and Cumbria, bring back the old school feel.

It's over 70 years since Australia last beat Yorkshire.

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

Play France / Yorkshire and Cumbria, bring back the old school feel.

England should play Cumbria, in Cumbria, every year, as a warm up for the autumn games.

[Bongo1]

Is it worth bring back the combined nations game mid season and holding it somewhere like Brentfords ground or Wimbledon to spread the word of a London test?