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#121 Northern Sol

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:15 AM

QUOTE (RLX111 @ Jul 21 2010, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why do you disagree?


I think if you tried convincing people in London that Milton Keynes was in "their neck of the woods", they would scournfully say that it was "norf" as far as they were concerned.

#122 Essex Man

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:36 AM

Skolars C1 side take anyone and is for everyone if they good enough (ahem lol) there's the dual registration thing going on with Quin's now as well, 3 or 4 have played in the prem side too to give them game time but to be honest, you'd never know they were SL club standard. What we really need is an u18 then u20/21 league for players to go through, natural progression, I know there's a LondonRL U18 summer league but it's not very well supported as yet, could be another good reason for a major club to move into Oxford or MK or somehwere in Essex even (dream on) and set up a new player pathway system for youth.



"I haven't heard enough to make me think that I need to," your seriousley ill-informed comments are very offensive, you really need facts before you speak out on subjects

Edited by Essex Man, 22 July 2010 - 11:38 AM.


#123 RP London

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 22 2010, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't heard enough to make me think that I need to, primarily on the player welfare side of things. I am glad that Brentwood Elvers are still going as that is good work and none of my criticism is directed at the likes of junior coaches so I'll apologise if I didn't explicitly exclude them enough.

many of those people are not on this board to defend themselves and i for one will not speak on their behalf as i only know their bit of the story... however, you have made some quite disparagine remarks with limited knoweldge yourself and these people do not deserve that.. being called #### for instance is not on.

#124 bowes

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (RP London @ Jul 22 2010, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
many of those people are not on this board to defend themselves and i for one will not speak on their behalf as i only know their bit of the story... however, you have made some quite disparagine remarks with limited knoweldge yourself and these people do not deserve that.. being called #### for instance is not on.

If it were just a badly run club you'd be right, but it was a huge risk to players' welfare

#125 RP London

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 22 2010, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If it were just a badly run club you'd be right, but it was a huge risk to players' welfare


no it wasnt.. it was the same as anyone playing younger players agianst older players.. remember the NL3 was not the standard it is today.. when we played them we knew the age and treated it as such..

#126 RLX111

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:56 PM

QUOTE (Northern Sol @ Jul 22 2010, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think if you tried convincing people in London that Milton Keynes was in "their neck of the woods", they would scournfully say that it was "norf" as far as they were concerned.

Good point!
Having lived also in London you are right!

#127 Blind side johnny

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (MrPosh @ Jul 17 2010, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MK is a horrible stadium on an industrial park, with virtually no pubs within walking distance.



A bit like Wigan then?


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#128 bowes

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE (Essex Man @ Jul 22 2010, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What we really need is an u18 then u20/21 league for players to go through, natural progression

We need something between Under 16s and open age in the midlands. I believe Under 19s is the most likely age we'd go, though most sides of that age group get put in the merit league at the moment.

Of course if we go for west and east midlands regionals and Under 19s we'd not be able to run the merit league so we'd have to think hard about that as it would make it harder for adult sides to get into the sport in the short term (presumably remaining merit league sides would have to be directed to the nearest merit league, e.g. Dronfield to Yorkshire if possible under that scenario), but then again we really need a way of keeping our Under 16s in the sport and 3 years at Under 19s would be a good way of doing it (we're not at the stage of looking at U18s and U21s).

#129 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:04 PM

Getting back to the original topic after

Fulham RLFC
London Crusaders
London Broncos
Harlequins Rugby League

Just how many times do people on here honestly think you can rebrand a product - and move it within the same geographical area without coming to the conclusion - sadly and with regret - that there no market for the product

The Harlequins tie-up - with its inherent problem of having someone else's name neverethless represented London Rugby League's last hope to crack the capital.

The Elephant in the room is as usual, The London Skolars - another club that has made little headway on the field or off it (and they are active in the community). If some on here were to be believed the vanguard of the proletariat in righteous outrage at the Super League clubs alignment with the running dogs of the RFU would be marching in droves down to the New River Stadium waving their little red (season) books regardless of the Skolars performances.

Statistics tell a different story do they not.

Putting this in context, in response to a question on the threat to Cricket from the All Whites NZ Crickets Heath Mills replied
QUOTE
There are cultural, political and social reasons why sports become embedded in our consciousness and that's hard to change

And the point of this quote in a Rugby League context is that other better funded transplanted sports such as American Football's London Monarchs and Ice Hockey's London Knights / London Racers folded unable to crack the London market. Now regardless of whether it started as an internet rumour regardng a fixure clash the signs do point to the fact that the one man who has kept the Super League club afloat and subsidised my entertainment for all these years is finding the losses unsustainable as London remains indifferent to Rugby League's charms or as a Virgin staffer put it in 2001.
QUOTE
Rugby League's a brilliant game. The problem is that nobody want's to watch it down here.


It's with a heavy heart that I say if Quins fail as is now likely, then the game would be better of focusing on somewhere more provincial rather than trying to flog a dead Bronco in the saturated London sports market.


I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

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Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

Dr Marwan Koukash to Joanthan Lieu. Sunday Telegraph 9th March 2014

 

 


#130 The Future is League

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:29 PM

if we move the London franchise out of London where to we move it to. it has to stay in the SE i would have thought so what do we have, well i suppose we would have to look at at sharing with another soccer club , but which one and where. Brighton when they move to their new ground. Colchester have a new ground. Southend perhaps Gillingham have an old ground, but are looking to move. the medway towns in kent where Gillingham is has a population of about 250,000, but even the soccer club has problems drawing big gates. the only other place that i can think of which might be worth a go, and yes its still in London is Leyton Orient.

#131 Jill Halfpenny fan

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE (THE RED ROOSTER @ Jul 22 2010, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Getting back to the original topic after

Fulham RLFC
London Crusaders
London Broncos
Harlequins Rugby League

Just how many times do people on here honestly think you can rebrand a product - and move it within the same geographical area without coming to the conclusion - sadly and with regret - that there no market for the product

The Harlequins tie-up - with its inherent problem of having someone else's name neverethless represented London Rugby League's last hope to crack the capital.

The Elephant in the room is as usual, The London Skolars - another club that has made little headway on the field or off it (and they are active in the community). If some on here were to be believed the vanguard of the proletariat in righteous outrage at the Super League clubs alignment with the running dogs of the RFU would be marching in droves down to the New River Stadium waving their little red (season) books regardless of the Skolars performances.

Statistics tell a different story do they not.

Putting this in context, in response to a question on the threat to Cricket from the All Whites NZ Crickets Heath Mills replied

And the point of this quote in a Rugby League context is that other better funded transplanted sports such as American Football's London Monarchs and Ice Hockey's London Knights / London Racers folded unable to crack the London market. Now regardless of whether it started as an internet rumour regardng a fixure clash the signs do point to the fact that the one man who has kept the Super League club afloat and subsidised my entertainment for all these years is finding the losses unsustainable as London remains indifferent to Rugby League's charms or as a Virgin staffer put it in 2001.


It's with a heavy heart that I say if Quins fail as is now likely, then the game would be better of focusing on somewhere more provincial rather than trying to flog a dead Bronco in the saturated London sports market.


Rooster, much of what you state has been mentioned on here many times.

But you'll be well aware that its usually met with a barrage of "fervent traditionalist", "whippet molester" etc ripostes.

As for the masses beating a path to the Skolars door.

I'm sure they all would be, if the inlaws weren't visiting, it wasn't someones twice removed cousins birthday, Clapham station wasn't closed, the weather was too hot/cold/wet, etc, etc, etc



Just because you think everyone hates you doesn't mean they don't.

#132 Jeff Stein

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:42 AM

QUOTE (bowes @ Jul 22 2010, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If it were just a badly run club you'd be right, but it was a huge risk to players' welfare


If it wasn't for the fact that this allegation is like many of your other statements untrue and a figment of your imagination.

Clearly you aren't man enought to retract the untruths you have posted and apologise for calling people doing a great job at Elvers, Brentwood County High, Bulldogs, Skolars and elsewhere ####.

#133 EastLondonMike

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:10 AM

there are a number of reasons why the quins 'experiment' may be doomed to failure, but i dont think its got to the point that we walk away from London saying 'we tried'.. because lets be honest, we havent really tried.. the bronco's with the brisbane contingent running the club were the only recent incarnation that even dented the psyche of the london sports public.. id wager if you did a servey around London most people wouldnt even know theres a RL side in London. when people are aware of a RL side, and its promoted properly, and in an accesable art of the capital, then we'll be in a position to see if its really going to work, and i still think it will, if done correctly. you only have to look at the utter ###### on TV these days and what record labels like to portray as music to know that anyone can be turned onto something with some clever and sustained promotion and marketing. but obviously none of this can be done quickly without money.

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#134 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (THE RED ROOSTER @ Jul 22 2010, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Getting back to the original topic after

Fulham RLFC
London Crusaders
London Broncos
Harlequins Rugby League

Just how many times do people on here honestly think you can rebrand a product - and move it within the same geographical area without coming to the conclusion - sadly and with regret - that there no market for the product

The Harlequins tie-up - with its inherent problem of having someone else's name neverethless represented London Rugby League's last hope to crack the capital.

The Elephant in the room is as usual, The London Skolars - another club that has made little headway on the field or off it (and they are active in the community). If some on here were to be believed the vanguard of the proletariat in righteous outrage at the Super League clubs alignment with the running dogs of the RFU would be marching in droves down to the New River Stadium waving their little red (season) books regardless of the Skolars performances.

Statistics tell a different story do they not.

Putting this in context, in response to a question on the threat to Cricket from the All Whites NZ Crickets Heath Mills replied

And the point of this quote in a Rugby League context is that other better funded transplanted sports such as American Football's London Monarchs and Ice Hockey's London Knights / London Racers folded unable to crack the London market. Now regardless of whether it started as an internet rumour regardng a fixure clash the signs do point to the fact that the one man who has kept the Super League club afloat and subsidised my entertainment for all these years is finding the losses unsustainable as London remains indifferent to Rugby League's charms or as a Virgin staffer put it in 2001.


It's with a heavy heart that I say if Quins fail as is now likely, then the game would be better of focusing on somewhere more provincial rather than trying to flog a dead Bronco in the saturated London sports market.


But the branding and ground relocating strategy has been poor ever since the days of Fulham. And that is the problem. Londoners don't want faux nobhead nicknames or sports, and Bronquins appears just that. The club also made many mistakes with ground moves. For a start they should NEVER have moved to the Stoop in any of the periods. I recall one experiment - the first game at Brentford - there was over 8k on, but they never went back and went to the Stoop as it was a bit cheaper (but also the crowds were much lower). I believe they should have persevered with griffin Park or Charlton in the mid-90's - and stayed there.

And as for Skolars - there are several reasons I haven't been this year:

1/ They are total utter garbage at the moment (the main reason) and it is soul destroying in combination with 2/
2/ The stadium is dire for watching RL in, and the walk to the New River from the tube (though I appreciate why they are there). Both these reasons are additional off-putters
3/ There is no P&R to SL (a personal reason) so the dream is dead
4/ I'm not flush with cash and can only afford to watch one RL team in London at the mo
5/ I live 1.5 hrs away in SW London

That being said, if they could improve on the pitch and challenge for promotion to NL1 I would start going occasionally again. And if they got into NL1 I would not watch Quins RL anymore

There are a LOT of people who would come out of the woodwork and support Skolars if they could improve, and perhaps secure a proper "Rectangular" stadium with terracing/seats neart pitch

#135 bowes

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE (Jeff Stein @ Jul 23 2010, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If it wasn't for the fact that this allegation is like many of your other statements untrue and a figment of your imagination.

Clearly you aren't man enought to retract the untruths you have posted and apologise for calling people doing a great job at Elvers, Brentwood County High, Bulldogs, Skolars and elsewhere ####.

I'm man enough to not back down to criticism of my common sense view that Essex Eels were very strongly in the wrong for playing young players in National League 3 and weren't prepared to listed to anyone that pointed out the obvious. I said they were either #### or incredibly naive and I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt it was the latter. Unless someone gives me a reasonable explanation (not just wishy washy nonsense) of why they not only felt they had to step up (which could be put down to a mistake) but stay up for a further season against the RFL's wishes (their words not mine that the RFL tried to drop them after 1 season) and common sense then I don't see why I am wrong to say they're at best very naive.

It is a truth plain and simple that it is very wrong and in fact immoral to put teenagers new to RL in standards 2-3 divisions above their ability and leave them there when there's a very clear problem.

I've been proven right and at the time anyone (not just me) who pointed out the unsustainability and mistake of putting them in NL3 got tons of abuse, even people long involved in the game who made very constructive criticism and yet we've been long since proved very right and Essex Eels very wrong

Edited by bowes, 23 July 2010 - 01:18 PM.


#136 Jeffles

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:58 AM

I thought quins could have done soemthing at Brentford but that wasn't meant to be. Would like to see the team revisit Brentford if that club ever get their new stadium.

There is a critical mass in London that will support rugby league but changing the brand every eight years or is hardly helpful. They are in a difficult position now. Stick with the current brand which many fans find offensive and the antithesis of the code in the interests of stability or risk annoying the existing fan base with another rebranding or move in the hope that it will attract more people.


#137 dallymessenger

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 07:41 AM

it looks like its much easier for RL to expand in france rather than virgin RL areas in britain given the games poor finances means it cant cover the losses of expansion teams

teams like toulose or marseille could certainly raise the profile of the sport

#138 The Future is League

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 07:48 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 24 2010, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it looks like its much easier for RL to expand in france rather than virgin RL areas in britain given the games poor finances means it cant cover the losses of expansion teams

teams like toulose or marseille could certainly raise the profile of the sport


if there is another French team into Super League it has to be Toulouse. i have a feeling thou that Super League will stick with one French team for now, unless a sugar daddy appears at Toulouse.

#139 bowes

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 07:51 AM

QUOTE (dallymessenger @ Jul 24 2010, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
teams like toulose or marseille could certainly raise the profile of the sport

Toulouse yes at some point, but there's not nearly enough playing talent yet, the one French SL side struggles. They can't apply for 2012 anyway. Marseille no, you may as well go for an English virgin area, RL has shrunk massively there and the latent support from the 70s will be dying off. They just have a poor 3rd French tier side now. Aude has much more potential.

We want a SE side so the juniors have a path to SL but London has failed (as happens in most sports that manage fine elsewhere). Very little English virgin territory has been tried as all the eggs have been in the unachievable London basjket.

#140 Essex Man

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 02:38 PM

A ground not mentioned is newly promoted Dagenham & Redbridge FC, easy to get by public transport, it's on district line (Dagenahm East) loads of local buses, nice ground, around 5500 capacity, lotsof local RU clubs that would welcome them for training/acadamey use eg Dagenham RU (home of the Hainault Bulldogs) and/or Barking RU, both have floodlights and excellent facilities already on site plus save a long journey to MK laugh.gif




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