Jump to content


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Foreign Team by Invitation


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 Bulletproof

Bulletproof
  • Coach
  • 2,242 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:09 AM

A while back this rather major alteration to the existing rules was brought to the attention of fans everywhere - the RFL, having gone back on promises, stated Toulouse would need to follow the existing rules like everyone else after a not insignificant fuss made in the media. However somewhere down the line quietly the rules have been altered so that any foreign team can bypass the current criteria and enter super league by invitation if deemed necessary.

The criteria for super league have also been clarified recently to include specific 2,500 average attendances, 1 million turnover, a 10,000 stadium minimum and other matters.

Now, you could argue for too long as to whether these were a recent introduction or whether the clubs knew them fully, it appears that some at least knew part of them certainly. However, working within the system, these are surely criteria designed to ensure that come what may any club making the step up to super league is both ready and able and viable for a long term super league future without significant money and crowd issues.

This being the case, what exactly is the point of allowing a team to bypass them? If they are a necessity, surely allowing a team outside these parameters (such as Toulouse, who are currently way off) would only end in that club ultimately failing and being propped up? And if this is not necessarily the case, why hold other clubs to these criteria at all?

Just something I've been pondering.

#2 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 19,903 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 06:59 AM

do you know where the criteria are published?

#3 Derwent

Derwent
  • Coach
  • 7,839 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:05 AM

QUOTE (JohnM @ Aug 11 2010, 07:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
do you know where the criteria are published?



Halfway down this article....

http://news.bbc.co.u...gue/8885900.stm

Workington Town. Then. Now. Always.


#4 Bomb Jack

Bomb Jack
  • Coach
  • 2,010 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:27 AM

We all know Celtic Crusaders and London Broncos were by invitation, so what's the difference ?

The RFL will do what they think is best, whether or not it actually is.

I think they were hoping Toulouse would qualify properly within the rules, but as they haven't they will get an invite anyway.
Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#5 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,975 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:43 AM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Aug 11 2010, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all know Celtic Crusaders and London Broncos were by invitation, so what's the difference ?

The RFL will do what they think is best, whether or not it actually is.

I think they were hoping Toulouse would qualify properly within the rules, but as they haven't they will get an invite anyway.


And Les Cats were "invited" as well. The RFL tried to run a single selection system for two very different types of club. Now they seem to be running a we will pick who we want and the remaining places will be by criteria. Funny how it's only the people on this site who are picking up and questioning this apparent major major rule change. The RL journos don't seem too bothered. Maybe the world of RL journalism is too small a boat to rock without falling out of the boat yourself.


#6 Wellsy4HullFC

Wellsy4HullFC
  • Coach
  • 9,725 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:51 AM

I thought we discovered that this wasn't a rule change, and that it had been in all the time since 2008, just no-one noticed? And that the "change" was just in the way it was formatted (i.e. they just put a few (iii) in there to seperate them!)...
Posted Image

#7 Bomb Jack

Bomb Jack
  • Coach
  • 2,010 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:02 AM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Aug 11 2010, 08:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Les Cats were "invited" as well.


How did i forget the roaring success that is Les Catalans Dragons ? rolleyes.gif

Edited by Bomb Jack, 11 August 2010 - 08:03 AM.

Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#8 Exiled Wiganer

Exiled Wiganer
  • Coach
  • 5,966 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:19 AM

Les Cats have been far more successful than anyone had any right to expect so early in their life as a club.
I think we have 2 things going on here - the RFL has been categoric that a club from the Championship WILL be promoted and that a club for SL WILL be demoted. They have published criteria which the promoted club will satisfy and presumably will publish criteria against which the Sl clubs will be measured.
The point about invitation can only be relevant in so far as the RFL wishes/needs to think about expansion clubs. It seems completely fair and reasonable and desirable that they consider the broader game. This MAJOR MAJOR change does not affect Widnes because they are going to be assessed according to the promotion criteria (and will clearly come out on top). If Toulouse could point to a TV deal and sponsors thatw ould mean they could pay for themselves (vvv unlikely) then the RFL is right to consider whether they are a sensible addition to the comp.

#9 thirteenthman

thirteenthman
  • Coach
  • 2,634 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Aug 11 2010, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How did i forget the roaring success that is Les Catalans Dragons ? rolleyes.gif

The club was 80 minutes from the GF last year and has also made the CC Final as well, all in its first 5 years. You're spot on, they are a success. For me, their position in the league is down to one man - Kevin Walters. I really don't think he's that good a coach.

As for inviting Toulouse or any other foreign team into SL, I just don't see it happenning this time round. With the difficulties at Harlequins and Crusaders the RFL will probably look to consolidate this time. Or at least, they should do...


#10 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,975 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:15 AM

QUOTE (Exiled Wiganer @ Aug 11 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The point about invitation can only be relevant in so far as the RFL wishes/needs to think about expansion clubs. It seems completely fair and reasonable and desirable that they consider the broader game. This MAJOR MAJOR change does not affect Widnes because they are going to be assessed according to the promotion criteria (and will clearly come out on top). If Toulouse could point to a TV deal and sponsors thatw ould mean they could pay for themselves (vvv unlikely) then the RFL is right to consider whether they are a sensible addition to the comp.


Yes I think you have nailed it, clearly the RFL cannot rule out an addition of a club from overseas by being too narrow in the criteria.

It may be just a wishful assumption, that the rule is for Toulouse.

It may be for an unlikely long shot like a Barcelona or a Paris with the backing of guaranteed millions.

As for Nervous Jack no amount of placation will do it. Memo to RFL let Widnes in now for the sake of Jack's health.



#11 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 19,903 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:27 AM

QUOTE (Derwent @ Aug 11 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Halfway down this article....

http://news.bbc.co.u...gue/8885900.stm


Thanks. Clear and concise. I actually meant where are they published by the RFL/ESL

#12 Derwent

Derwent
  • Coach
  • 7,839 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:31 AM

QUOTE (JohnM @ Aug 11 2010, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks. Clear and concise. I actually meant where are they published by the RFL/ESL


http://www.therfl.co...em.php?id=18619

Workington Town. Then. Now. Always.


#13 bendyas

bendyas
  • Coach
  • 3,153 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:36 AM

Before casting judgement, i'd like to see the franchise criteria published by the RFL both from 3 years ago and now.

Edited by bendyas, 11 August 2010 - 09:36 AM.


#14 Bomb Jack

Bomb Jack
  • Coach
  • 2,010 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE (The Parksider @ Aug 11 2010, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Memo to RFL let Widnes in now for the sake of Jack's health.



biggrin.gif

Although i am interested to know just how they will announce both the CC Club in March, and the one (s ) being kicked out in July.

Will both desicions be televised live as they were in 2008 ?
Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#15 marklaspalmas

marklaspalmas
  • Coach
  • 11,379 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:42 PM

Im pretty sure that, out of these five rules announced on 4th August 2010:

1 Club has reached a Championship final or won the Northern Rail Cup in 2009 or 2010.
2 Club has a stadium with an operational capacity of 10,000.
3 No insolvency event has occurred during the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons.
4 Club has turnover of at least 1,000,000 in financial year ending 2009 or 2010 (turnover of charitable foundation can be included in this figure).
5 Club has an average attendance of at least 2,500 in 2009 or 2010

Numbers 2, 4 and 5 have never been mentioned before with those specific figures attached to them.

 

You Can't Buy Team Spirit

 

 

 

 


#16 Bomb Jack

Bomb Jack
  • Coach
  • 2,010 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:42 PM

I thought the 10,000 capacity was a standard requirement for Super League ?

Either that or 12,000.
Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#17 R J Wagsmith

R J Wagsmith
  • Coach
  • 175 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:47 PM

It has also been stated that one team from the Championship will definitely be promoted to Superleague. But what if all the other bids from current Superleague clubs are self-evidently better? Fair and just? I think not. But, no matter, the Gods have spoken.
Featherstone Rovers should now be celebrating promotion.

#18 amh

amh
  • Moderator
  • 11,084 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (R J Wagsmith @ Aug 11 2010, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Featherstone Rovers should now be celebrating promotion.


Yes, but would Widnes have encouraged the youth this season if things were as they used to be, or perhaps played things differently?

Whilst I do not suffer fools gladly, I will always gladly make fools suffer

A man is getting along on the road of wisdom when he realises that his opinion is just an opinion


#19 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,018 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (bendyas @ Aug 11 2010, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Before casting judgement, i'd like to see the franchise criteria published by the RFL both from 3 years ago and now.

For championship clubs.

For stadium it was 12,000, revised down now to 10,000

Stadium operating at at least 40% capaicity revised down to minimum of 2,500 average

Turnover was 4m revised down to 1m

Remember these were not must haves previously but you were awarded points for them.

Although the criterea have been revised down in some areas on pitch qualifiers have been added because of all the whinging.

Since anyone could apply last time there was no need for the option of invitation to apply which has been added this time.

Overall because the situation this year is different to the first round most of the criterea have been revised or tweaked in some way

The revisions seem to have been made to ensure that a championship club will meet them thus the RFL can say with confidence that a Championship side will move up.

Where the RFL slip up is that they fail to make it clear what is going to happen.

This is how I read it and this is what the RFL should be saying (unless I'm wrong and then they shouldn't)

Clubs outside who qualify or are invited to apply for SL will be assesed first and one or more clubs will be selected for promotion or invitation to enter SL as a new club (not over likely).
Once it is known how many clubs will be moving into SL then a matching number of SL clubs, the required number of clubs scoring the least on the criteria will be relegated, regardless of the fact that they may score more than the Championship club or clubs promoted.

Edited: following BJ's post

Edited by Padge, 11 August 2010 - 06:57 PM.


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#20 Bomb Jack

Bomb Jack
  • Coach
  • 2,010 posts

Posted 11 August 2010 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Padge @ Aug 11 2010, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For stadium it was 12,000, revised down now to 10,000

Stadium operating at at least 40% capaicity revised down to minimum of 2,500 average

Turnover was 4m revised down to 1m


These revisions are for Championship Clubs only. The Super League Clubs still have the same set criteria to aim for............
Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users