Jump to content


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Gareth Ellis is man of the match in the NRL's Sunday prime telecast


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#21 PC

PC
  • Coach
  • 4,216 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:16 AM

QUOTE (Hannibal @ Aug 17 2010, 07:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
male genitals.

Beat me too it.

#22 HappyDave

HappyDave
  • Coach
  • 3,236 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:55 AM

I like Ellis, I think he's an excellent Secoond Row but isn't he currently under investigation by the NRL for a possible 'Chicken Wing' challenge on an opponent? The thing is NRL players & fans both like 'Big Hits' and so they happen more in the Aus than they do over here. The problem is although well executed they look superb but if they're poorly executed they can lead to injury and even if it's only 5 percent of the time they're mistimed/badly done that's still 5 percent of those 'hits' could lead to injury. I haven't watched much NRL but take Shenton being hospitalised in the G4N final last year or Luke Burgess going to hospital with a broken jaw at the weekend
as examples of what can happen in poorly executed shoulder charges. So, going to the NRL can help a player greatly not everything about it is great, in my opinion.

I think Eastmond needs to learn how to become a play-maker but I think neither him, either Tomkins or Westwood need to go Down Under to improve.

Edited by HappyDave, 17 August 2010 - 08:04 AM.

"I've never seen a woman with hairy ears... And I've been to St Helens" - John Bishop

#23 MrPosh

MrPosh
  • Coach
  • 3,085 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:09 AM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Aug 16 2010, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I disagree. Ellis was a good player at Leeds before he went to Australia. But he was not a great player. He has become a great player at West Tigers. Whether it was Tim Sheens' coaching or the need to prove himself, or both, I don't know. But no one would have rated him so highly before he went to Australia.

Burgess is a slightly different case. He had been outstanding on occasion when playing in Britain. His Four Nations final performance was superb. But he was inconsistent in the level of his performances. Now he is at South Sydney there is greater consistency in his outstanding performances. Now he plays a great role at Souths that has made him a key figure in the squad. He ranks with Isaac Luke, Dave Taylor and Nathan Merritt as one of the team's stars. (go here: http://www.rabbitohs.com.au/ Sam is the first cab off the rank in the list of club stars.) Also Sam Burgess is now a media celebrity in Australia. This is a sign of how much he has developed in less than one year in the NRL.

I haven't really seen enough of Ellis at Wests to comment. I understand that he has been better this year than last, but I haven't seen anything in his game that suggests he is a better player now than when he went to the NRL.

Burgess, I think, is not quite the same player as he was. At Bradford, in his breakthrough year, he was in a very strong pack - in 2009, when he needed to carry the team, he was not quite capable of this. He is in a similar position at Souths - in a pack with old men, trundlers and fatties, and his game is suffering under the weight of expectations. He is committing many more unforced errors than he ever did at Bradford and there doesn't seem to be an improvement in his game - although I accept that would be hard, with him having reached such heights at his young age.

This would be similar to suggesting that Andrew Johns improved himself during his time at Warrington (and I'm sure PJM will tell you he did tongue.gif ).
People called Romans they go the house

#24 Bulligerent

Bulligerent
  • Coach
  • 890 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:15 AM

I see, so because the Souths bill Burgess as a 'star' on their website and the Aussie media are in love with him, that is irrefutable evidence that Sam has only become a good player because of the NRL and the move he made to play there? Absolute rubbish, like most of the stuff you post on here.

Not wishing to get too personal but it is increasingly hard to take anything you post on here seriously PS due to the way you either completely sensationalise your point (i guess in your own eyes it makes it more valid) or in some cases completely make up issues that are complete non-stories i.e. the Menzies contract (or lack of it) at Bradford.

In the case of Burgess, having seen a number of Souths games this season, he is doing nothing different to what he was doing at Bradford most weeks (except for the short period where his mind was obviously on the move and not on the Bulls). A very good player with the potential to only get better and better; always has been, always will be regardless of whether he plays in the NRL or the Super League.

#25 Ex-Kirkholt

Ex-Kirkholt
  • Coach
  • 1,606 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:21 AM

QUOTE (MrPosh @ Aug 17 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't really seen enough of Ellis at Wests to comment. I understand that he has been better this year than last, but I haven't seen anything in his game that suggests he is a better player now than when he went to the NRL.

Burgess, I think, is not quite the same player as he was. At Bradford, in his breakthrough year, he was in a very strong pack - in 2009, when he needed to carry the team, he was not quite capable of this. He is in a similar position at Souths - in a pack with old men, trundlers and fatties, and his game is suffering under the weight of expectations. He is committing many more unforced errors than he ever did at Bradford and there doesn't seem to be an improvement in his game - although I accept that would be hard, with him having reached such heights at his young age.

Both of the above statements could be because they are playing in a stronger competiton. I.E. You think Ellis may not be a better player now than when he left SL - I think he is because, at the very least, he is reproducing his SL form against better coached and better conditioned players week-in / week-out. I think his recent England games have shown him to be our best forward by a good mark.
Looks like it wer' organised by't Pennine League

#26 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 2,917 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:54 AM

I recall Burgess had a pretty poor season with Bradford in 2009, it was almost second season syndrome.

What does it matter at the end of the day?

Ellis & Burgess have done really well in the NRL and the Australian media have latched onto them no different than they did with Rugby Union converts a long time ago.
The NRL gets pages and pages of coverage in the Papers and weekly lift outs, the writers are always looking for a story to spin and at the moment its pushed these two.

If Parramatta sign Quade Cooper he will be the next big thing for as long as they can spin the story.

Its all good and helps sell the game and generate income for the sport.

Edited by AndyCapp, 17 August 2010 - 08:55 AM.


#27 JWAD

JWAD
  • Coach
  • 14,332 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:39 AM

QUOTE (AndyCapp @ Aug 17 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Parramatta sign Quade Cooper he will be the next big thing for as long as they can spin the story


They won't.


#28 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 2,917 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:47 AM

QUOTE (JWAD @ Aug 17 2010, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They won't.


Time will tell.

The game has gone stupid lately with League players going to AFL and French Union.

The Commercialism of Sport has moved this way but in the end it may self destruct the codes as people lose interest and move to other forms of entertainment.
Do the top AFL players and fans appreciate the signings of Hunt and Folau? I doubt it.
The same with the somewhat failed NRL signings by Oz Union in the last 6 years.

Cooper will go where the money is.
Same as nearly all players.




#29 petero

petero
  • Coach
  • 2,833 posts

Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:50 AM

I have wtched each and every game that has come from the NRL on MSK and enjoyed them so much that I am paying the extra premium to continue doing so.

I agree that both Burgess and Ellis have looked well within their depth in the OZ game and both have easily risen to the fitness levels required, especially Ellis. Sam is trying too hard and is requiring a subs spell in each game, when he paces himself better he will become better still.

However although both of them look good neither of them are the stand out forwards of the NRL!

I watched the game Wests V Panthers and whilst not wanting to pour cold water on the fact that Gareth got the MOM award, I thought that was a bit wrong.

Robbie Farah was the best man for Wests, by a mile and the best forward on view was Luke Lewis, but as far as I was concerned the MOM was the Penrith F/B Michael Gordon who played fantastic, even in a beaten side.

Hannibal: there are no Aussie Supermen.
Grow up and simply accept the fact that compared with the NRL the S/L is a poorer standard competition, like it or lump it that is undeniable. sad.gif

#30 HappyDave

HappyDave
  • Coach
  • 3,236 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:03 AM

So, Burgess got a one match ban for a grapple tackle recently? Did he ever do that in SL? The so called 'grapple tackles' I've seen in the SL/Championship have just been high tackles around the neck, whereas in the NRL I've seen proper grappling whereby players choke their opponent so they have to catch their breath before they can play the ball.

I still think that as well as being a faster, tougher competition than SL the NRL also seems to lead to some dodgy (dangerous?) tackling techniques.

Edited by HappyDave, 18 August 2010 - 12:07 AM.

"I've never seen a woman with hairy ears... And I've been to St Helens" - John Bishop

#31 ParisSurtout

ParisSurtout
  • Coach
  • 3,956 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 04:45 AM

QUOTE (petero @ Aug 17 2010, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have wtched each and every game that has come from the NRL on MSK and enjoyed them so much that I am paying the extra premium to continue doing so.

I agree that both Burgess and Ellis have looked well within their depth in the OZ game and both have easily risen to the fitness levels required, especially Ellis. Sam is trying too hard and is requiring a subs spell in each game, when he paces himself better he will become better still.


Sam Burgess already has a tremendous tackling performance every game. He also makes good ground with the ball on almost every run he makes.

One problem is that because of injuries at Souths they have switched him to prop a few times. That is not his best position, even though he can perform well there. His best position is either second row or lock.

Sam's only real development problem is that he needs to know when to offload and when not. He is learning that slowly, week by week. Once he gets that right, he will be a champion.

Le rugby a treize, c'est moi!

_____



______________________________________________________

#32 dallymessenger

dallymessenger
  • Coach
  • 20,928 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 05:49 AM

QUOTE (HappyDave @ Aug 18 2010, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, Burgess got a one match ban for a grapple tackle recently? Did he ever do that in SL? The so called 'grapple tackles' I've seen in the SL/Championship have just been high tackles around the neck, whereas in the NRL I've seen proper grappling whereby players choke their opponent so they have to catch their breath before they can play the ball.

I still think that as well as being a faster, tougher competition than SL the NRL also seems to lead to some dodgy (dangerous?) tackling techniques.


give it a few years and the wrestling holds will improve in SL

nathan brown is one, and maguire is from the melbourne storm, the team that perfected wrestling type tackles in the nrl

the wrestling tackles have largely gone from the nrl with 2 refs

#33 1976PMJwires

1976PMJwires
  • Coach
  • 9,454 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:06 AM

QUOTE (MrPosh @ Aug 17 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't really seen enough of Ellis at Wests to comment. I understand that he has been better this year than last, but I haven't seen anything in his game that suggests he is a better player now than when he went to the NRL.

Burgess, I think, is not quite the same player as he was. At Bradford, in his breakthrough year, he was in a very strong pack - in 2009, when he needed to carry the team, he was not quite capable of this. He is in a similar position at Souths - in a pack with old men, trundlers and fatties, and his game is suffering under the weight of expectations. He is committing many more unforced errors than he ever did at Bradford and there doesn't seem to be an improvement in his game - although I accept that would be hard, with him having reached such heights at his young age.

This would be similar to suggesting that Andrew Johns improved himself during his time at Warrington (and I'm sure PJM will tell you he did tongue.gif ).




Not a troll post. Well Done


Infact, good read and true.......the last bit being great tongue and cheek tongue.gif

PS PMJ not PJM ........please mr nosh wink.gif

#34 Hannibal

Hannibal
  • Coach
  • 11,790 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:36 AM

QUOTE (petero @ Aug 17 2010, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hannibal: there are no Aussie Supermen.
Grow up and simply accept the fact that compared with the NRL the S/L is a poorer standard competition, like it or lump it that is undeniable. sad.gif

Irony isn't your strong point, is it?

#35 RP London

RP London
  • Coach
  • 12,678 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:48 AM

it must just be me but Ellis and Burgess were two of the best players in the GB squad. A GB Squad that knew where its strength was.. the pack, and they were players within that pack. they were the best players in their club sides by and large and that is why the aussies bought them.

the aussie sides knew they were getting good players that may need a little polish for "their game" but still they were fantastic players already and had proved it in super league and interntaionally.

The SL v NRL debate is simple and its about intensity... week in week out the intensity is there in the NRL it isnt in Super League, best against best is as exciting in either division but week on week the intensity is not there lower down.

burgess and ellsi will have had to learn a mental toughness that they didnt have before and this si waht is lacking in the england team as a whole.. SoO helps it but the week in week out toughness of the division does too.

the one real shining light is Flangan IMO.. bobbins over here, gone over there and going from stregth to strength and i hope wests keep him and develop him, he is the one to look at he went over as poor and is looking good.. the other two were fantastic players in their own right when they went over.. everyone knew how good ellis and burgess were no one is suprised by the way they are playing, if they sound it on the TV (which they do) it is about hyping it up, they arent suprised they saw what they did agianst their own international team and iknew they would do well.. lets not go overboard as per usual about the NRL making our players better etc etc.. they make them mentally tougher yes but IMO Ellis and Burgess are not technically better now than when they went over.. and i've been watching a fair bit this year, but they are more switched on and alert.

#36 jim_57

jim_57
  • Coach
  • 470 posts

Posted 18 August 2010 - 10:47 AM

Ellis and Burgess are both Easily in the top 5 back rowers in the World. IMO Ellis is the better of the two even though he doesn't get anywhere near as much hype as Burgess.


QUOTE (JWAD @ Aug 17 2010, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They won't.

I wouldn't be so sure, it's unlikely but stranger things have happened.
https://au.dryjuly.c...e/kabramudcrabs

Support myself & team Mudcrab during our Dry July 2013 challenge. Proceeds going to Cancer Support.

#37 The Boy Saint

The Boy Saint
  • Coach
  • 1,732 posts

Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:57 PM

Playing in different competitions and under different conditions will always improve players but not to such dramatic extent as the likes of PS make out.

I have been watching MSK this season and although Ellis and Burgess are stand out players in both of their respective teams, their performances arent amazing. In fact their performances are at exactly the same level of performance as they were in SL, they are very good. The difference is the Aussie media build them up like they are supermen since NRL coaches got their hands on them. This is pretty blinkered and very disrespectful to the SL and the standard of coaching over here.

Simple fact is, our top players over here always end up as top players in the NRL. The british players who go down under and cant make an impact are the same ones who cant make any impact in SL.

Chris Thorman, Keith Mason, Ian Sibbit etc...

The top players like Carney, Morley, Ellis, Burgess etc do well.

#38 humpy

humpy
  • Coach
  • 462 posts

Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE (HappyDave @ Aug 18 2010, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, Burgess got a one match ban for a grapple tackle recently? Did he ever do that in SL? The so called 'grapple tackles' I've seen in the SL/Championship have just been high tackles around the neck, whereas in the NRL I've seen proper grappling whereby players choke their opponent so they have to catch their breath before they can play the ball.

I still think that as well as being a faster, tougher competition than SL the NRL also seems to lead to some dodgy (dangerous?) tackling techniques.



Sam was asked on the footy show last night if he got away with grapple tackles in the UK and he said he had got away with it. He said that in Oz where every game is televised, it is hard to get away with things as there are 8 camera watching every move from various angles, as only 2 games are fully on tv in UK, that is 2 games with 8 camera angles, the others are only filmed from one angle hence the chance is there to get away with things.

#39 ParisSurtout

ParisSurtout
  • Coach
  • 3,956 posts

Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:42 PM

QUOTE (humpy @ Aug 19 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sam was asked on the footy show last night if he got away with grapple tackles in the UK and he said he had got away with it. He said that in Oz where every game is televised, it is hard to get away with things as there are 8 camera watching every move from various angles, as only 2 games are fully on tv in UK, that is 2 games with 8 camera angles, the others are only filmed from one angle hence the chance is there to get away with things.



Interesting point. I tried to find it on the website but it has not been posted there.

While I am at it, the Footy Show had a great interview with the Prime Minister Julia Gillard by Fatty Vautin. She was funny. I enjoyed her correcting his poor attempt to speak English.

http://wwos.ninemsn....ootyshow/video/

I look forward to the day when a British Prime Minister agrees to speak to a rugby league interviewer on a prime time British rugby league TV show. The day when that happens we will know that rugby league has finally made it in Britain.
Le rugby a treize, c'est moi!

_____



______________________________________________________

#40 MrPosh

MrPosh
  • Coach
  • 3,085 posts

Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:04 PM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Aug 19 2010, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I look forward to the day when a British Prime Minister agrees to speak to a rugby league interviewer on a prime time British rugby league TV show. The day when that happens we will know that rugby league has finally made it in Britain.

I look forward to the day when a French Prime Minister (or President, I'm not fussy) agrees to speak to a rugby league interviewer on a prime time French rugby league TV show. The day when that happens, we will know that rugby league has finally made it in France.
People called Romans they go the house




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users