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Salary Cap


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#41 1976PMJwires

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (dkw @ Sep 18 2010, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That sounds like some kind of "special relationship" to me.



Wigan have always had a special relationship tongue.gif


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#42 Bitofaboogie

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Sep 18 2010, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and next you'll have the words "broken in the spirit of the salary cap"
How ever you look at it, its cheating tongue.gif

Correct - it is cheating in my eyes and in the eyes of most RL fans.

It is cheating in exactly the same way that Leeds' and Saints' and Wires', etc, etc creative accounting is cheating but have they ever been punished to the same degree?


#43 1976PMJwires

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE (Bitofaboogie @ Sep 18 2010, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Correct - it is cheating in my eyes and in the eyes of most RL fans.

It is cheating in exactly the same way that Leeds' and Saints' and Wires', etc, etc creative accounting is cheating but have they ever been punished to the same degree?



stop you there..... I'm a Wire (don't give a to55 about leeds or saints, there fans can pull you up wink.gif )


have you got any facts that Warrington have cheated / broken the salary cap???


WARRINGTON HAVE NEVER EVER!!!!!

Yeah people don't understand or can't accept it with the players we have, but we HAVEN'T broken the cap tongue.gif

#44 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 01:00 PM

QUOTE (Bitofaboogie @ Sep 18 2010, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Correct - it is cheating in my eyes and in the eyes of most RL fans.

It is cheating in exactly the same way that Leeds' and Saints' and Wires', etc, etc creative accounting is cheating but have they ever been punished to the same degree?

Ah,"creative accounting" Saints have been caught breaching the cap, I suppose you'll say Mr. Hetherington has payed off the RFL to keep quiet about the Leeds breaches.Special relationship and all that.Most clubs now how to work within the cap,some don't.Wigan,Bradford and Saints didn't, deal with it.

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#45 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 01:07 PM

Cap should stay but we also need a draft (for non-homegrown players) to stop the best players migrating to the best teams. That way we'd have a fair spread. AT the moment the best teams are hogging the best players and are also capturing the best foreigners.

If the foreigners don't want to play for the likes of Cas, Salford etc then they should not be allowed to come

#46 tonyXIII

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 01:57 PM


I think the salary cap is basically a good idea. It's not perfect and does need a bit of tweaking (as one poster put it). For example, if a club does develop a lot of homegrown players, they should be allowed to benefit from their efforts.

The problem with the cap (in any form) is that it a restrictive practice and might not stand up if challenged in court. Because of that, it will only work if the clubs want it to work. The clubs, therefore, need to accept that it is their own best long-term interests to make the cap work.

I think it was in an article in RLW that I read one coach stating the obvious - that no cap can prevent envelopes changing hands.

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#47 tonyXIII

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 18 2010, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cap should stay but we also need a draft (for non-homegrown players) to stop the best players migrating to the best teams. That way we'd have a fair spread. AT the moment the best teams are hogging the best players and are also capturing the best foreigners.

If the foreigners don't want to play for the likes of Cas, Salford etc then they should not be allowed to come


Lobby, would you take the next logical step and insist on some form of central contract for overseas (or even all?) players?

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#48 The Parksider

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (tonyXIII @ Sep 18 2010, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If a club does develop a lot of homegrown players, they should be allowed to benefit from their efforts.


We have a different mechanism for that Tony. Firstly clubs have to develop home grown players to get a license and secondly they have to field a large set quota number of home growns in future.

Apply rewards to those clubs who have home growns and Leeds, Wigan and Saints would immediately be given an advantage when they are already well in front on the pitch, and such as Crusaders would be put at a disadvantage.

All clubs must develop and field home growns and all clubs are striving for this.




#49 The Parksider

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 18 2010, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the foreigners don't want to play for the likes of Cas, Salford etc then they should not be allowed to come


Superleague is a joint business venture, if it wasn't as Tony says the cap would be challenged in an attempt to scrap it. Having said that would the challenger be sure of their SL license in the future?

As a joint business venture aiming to present 7 evenly matched games each week, to obtain intensity and entertainment we know we are short of quality players so we import them from the southern hemishere.

As SKY money largely pays for them then a draft idea is a good one up to a point.

Nice one Lobster




#50 dallymessenger

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 04:28 PM

the salary cap and franchising are what will lead to a much better SL down the track

its good that english RL can differentitate itself from sports like soccer with these things

#51 Father Ted

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 09:19 PM

The salary cap has proved to be nonsense as they have found in Australia.
It's unworkable and unmangeable. The NRL never found out about Canterbury or Melbourne and have no idea if others are doing the same. The RFL have fewer controls then the NRL and theirs have been proved to be useless.

The more equal competition has not been provided by the SC but by SKY TV money. Without SKY we would have four or five full time clubs and the rest would be part time. We have fourteen full time clubs and that is the reason for a more equal comp.
As for a league that is likely to be won by any club, that is total nonsense.
We may well have a fourth Leeds v Saints GF which says it all!

The NRL are to now dump the SC over the next two or three years and will trial a replacment system next year. I do hope our RFL/SL will trial a replacement for our SC that reflects the needs of RL here and not just replicate the NRL system simply because the Australians are doing it and therefore so must we

#52 The Parksider

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Father Ted @ Sep 18 2010, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. The salary cap has proved to be nonsense as they have found in Australia.
It's unworkable and unmangeable.

2. The more equal competition has not been provided by the SC but by SKY TV money.

3. As for a league that is likely to be won by any club, that is total nonsense.

4. The NRL are to now dump the SC over the next two or three years and will trial a replacment system next year. I do hope our RFL/SL will trial a replacement for our SC that reflects the needs of RL here and not just replicate the NRL system simply because the Australians are doing it and therefore so must we


1. Of course it works - the top clubs on the whole are reigned in, of course it's manageable - clubs are caught and punished. If you want to argue it's not a perfect system then suggest what is?

2. You are right and for me we should ask SKY what they want if they are the paymasters. If they want an even competition then the salary cap stays and the SKY money could also be distributed unevenly. However maybe SKY back the cap behind closed doors so it could be an academic argument.

3. Like the expansion clubs crowds and home grown players they will always be hit over the head for the lack of them in their formative years by supporters of clubs who have been around 130 years. Similarly the cap has been applied to a series of clubs only a few of whom can stand on their own two feet financially, clubs who are fledglings, clubs who are in bad grounds and clubs who don't have sugar daddies etc.

Easy to condemn a system that can't yet work across the board because of other problems.

4. So what's the system you advocate??? If you want to bad mouth and remove a system suggest something? All down the years you have just left the argument as "The cap should be abolished" even Boogie has shifted to admitting wage inflation would be the result and a small clique of clubs playing out a league within a league.

We have that now, but the cap is there to help reign it in and in time when other clubs get on their feet we will see a more even competition.

The development of SL as a league of 14 big clubs all on full cap and all bringing through good juniors of equal quality isn't a 10 year thing and maybe isn't a 20 year thing.


#53 getdownmonkeyman

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:18 AM

To the Wiganers condemning the Salary Cap, you do realise SL was under the stewardship of Lindsay when it was introduced.



#54 Blind side johnny

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 18 2010, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cap should stay but we also need a draft (for non-homegrown players) to stop the best players migrating to the best teams. That way we'd have a fair spread. AT the moment the best teams are hogging the best players and are also capturing the best foreigners.

If the foreigners don't want to play for the likes of Cas, Salford etc then they should not be allowed to come



I assume that you exclude those who qualify to play without visas, or are you advocating breaching employment law too?
Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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#55 Father Ted

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 11:40 AM

Mo was Chairman of Wigan following his return in 1999.
He might have been elected by other SL clubs as chairman of SL but that hardly compares with his former job as RFL boss.

As to replacing the SC, I've always been against restrictions on RL wether it is the SC or the insane 20/20 rule which is now thankfully in the bin.
Why would I want to replace a failed system with another?
If anything then we should go with the soccer idea of clubs making a profit over a rolling three year period.
The SC was originally brought in to stop club getting into financial difficulties. Although that idea has long been dumped, if all clubs had to make a profit and did we would have secure clubs and a secure sport.

In reality the RFL will jump at some idea if the NRL dump their SC. I just don't want an Aussie idea that is designed for them being implanted in our game when it may not suit us just because the clubs haven't been up to speed in replacing the SC.

#56 indomitable

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 12:46 PM

The salary cap was never brought in to affect just Wigan. Wigan's long period of dominance was mainly down to the fact that most sides were part time, and Wigan had the support to allow their players to play full time.
It is a fact that if a club has extra money coming in they will break the rules to pay over the cap, it happens in all walks of life, that if we can get round the rules to get a better product then we will do it.
To put it in its best light ,it is a system which leads to making the league more attractive by leveling the playing field, but we are always going to have clubs that will break the rules, by obtaining the best side they can get. If you are a supporter of a side that has made your club better, are you going to complain? I think not.

#57 The Parksider

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 02:37 PM

QUOTE (Father Ted @ Sep 19 2010, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If all clubs had to make a profit and did we would have secure clubs and a secure sport.


Is that what you are suggesting then?

How do Quins make a profit? Probably by fielding a semi pro side of Londoners.

How would HKR make a profit given they lose 1M a year? Reduce their player budget by 1Million.

Then what are the scores for the Wigan.v.Quins matches?? 60 to 70 points to nil.

Or the scores for Wigan.v.HKR 40 to 50 points to nil?

Does a director putting in millions count as "profit"?

In any event how would dropping costs down until all clubs make a profit make the game secure.

Wouldn't the attendances at the lower clubs drop like a stone as their teams get battered, and the attendances at the top clubs drop as the fans get bored??

The only winner here seems to be Wigan where they can make a profit off their attandances and have a sugar daddy too.

Your suggestion would seem to heavily favour Wigan, who is it you support by the way?




#58 giwildgo

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:09 PM

QUOTE (Lobbygobbler @ Sep 18 2010, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cap should stay but we also need a draft (for non-homegrown players) to stop the best players migrating to the best teams. That way we'd have a fair spread. AT the moment the best teams are hogging the best players and are also capturing the best foreigners.

If the foreigners don't want to play for the likes of Cas, Salford etc then they should not be allowed to come

I actually like that idea - overseas players declare availability to play in SL rather than negotiating with an individual club, each player has a guaranteed value agreed with the league, lowest team in the league get first pick and so forth.

Just like a draft in American Sport it could create the possibility of trades between teams - i.e, existing players at big clubs traded for a higher pick based on need. Whats not to like? Great TV potential and exposure for the game annually - I'd also tie the free agency of British players into it, rather than having a signing deadline in season.

Without an independent method of nuturing players like the US Universities being in place, we will never have a realistic spread of home grown talent, but an overseas / free agency draft would be the next best option to create a more even competition allied to the SC.

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#59 StevieM13

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 04:40 PM

Scrap the salary cap. It's a restraint on investment and is an excuse for the less inventive and progressive clubs to hang off the coat tails of the better clubs.

Turn it on it's head and have a debt cap instead. Clubs are only allowed to run a serviceable deficit at x percentage of their annual turnover.

#60 Finn

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 05:00 PM

Who is the best player you have ever seen?
How much would he earn under the cap restrictions?
Would this be enough to keep him in the game?




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