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Martyn Sadler - Talking Rugby League


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#61 bewareshadows

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

My understanding is all of them.


Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#62 getting2old

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:57 PM

All I here is Super league this Super League that well if championship sides are never going to get a chance in super league it will die because it becomes stale. Super league needs new teams to keep generating new interest and new ideas. If you don’t give championship team the chance you also risk splitting Rugby League again the champion leagues go their own way and doing this they take the amateur teams and super league dies. Super League also smacks like a Super State too with the super-rich dictating the game. Super League as to find away to hold all Rugby League together or will it allow break up and die.



#63 The Parksider

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:35 PM

All I here is Super league this Super League that well if championship sides are never going to get a chance in super league it will die because it becomes stale. Super league needs new teams to keep generating new interest and new ideas. If you don’t give championship team the chance you also risk splitting Rugby League again the champion leagues go their own way and doing this they take the amateur teams and super league dies. Super League also smacks like a Super State too with the super-rich dictating the game. Super League as to find away to hold all Rugby League together or will it allow break up and die.

The whole of Rugby League is totally dependent on clubs, Super League clubs, like Hull and Warrington to go forward and develop the game. Tonight's game was magnificent and the two coaches were clear they did not need the "all inclusive" approach, they needed intensity and quality to take TGG forward.

#64 Saintslass

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:55 PM

Just to be clear, I am surprised Dave Woods did not turn up after commentating on the game, as he was very enthusiastic about the proposal on the recent Forty-20 podcast..

He did turn up on the Red Button discussion programme, which discussed option 3 in particular, and enthused about option 3 when asked about the review.



#65 Jwdub

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:27 PM

From what I've read, heard and seen of martyn Sadler he is extremely passionate about rugby league. He does have an agenda, and that is that he cares about the future of rugby league for all teams. He's written an article in a rugby league paper with a personal opinion of what he believes may happen if the new system is introduced with the intention of inviting other opinions, both here and in the mailbag of his paper. To say he has anything other than the interests of the game at heart is completely ridiculous. The facts are the game in general lacks money, and the current system of franchising in a 14 team super league isn't working. When I first heard the option of split leagues and promotion/ relegation my first thoughts were, despite the details and flaws at least there wont be any more meaningless/ one sided games. However, my new worry would be some teams may end up in the top tier when they have full squads but would struggle in the 2nd half of the season as injuries take their toll playing teams with bigger squads resulting in the same problem. I think the clubs and players need to believe in the new system for the fans to get behind them. Probably the best option would be a 12 team super league with a home/ away play off between the last placed super league team and championship grand final winners, with a parachute payment for the super league team if they are relegated.

#66 Jwdub

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:51 AM

Also, the reasons why Martyn believes the new system may affect the challenge cup competition is quite obvious.......if clubs have a choice of a) a competition with limited success and less financial reward unless they reached the final ( 2 teams) or B) a competition with more chance of success (8 teams) with huge financial rewards (super league money), teams would undoubtedly go for the second option. If you remove the fear mid season of possible relegation, guaranteeing the super league money the challenge cup then becomes more of a bonus than a hindrance. Martyn has previously published an idea for the rejuvenation of the challenge cup which would remove the chances of one sided games, creating a secondary competition (Plate) to be played at Wembley which would also boost the cup final attendance with fans of the teams involved. It may only be an idea but I think the Rfl should consider the benefits of this or something similar.

#67 jonty FEV hawkins

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:26 PM

Its because of old men like him with their own opinions on what is good and what is bad about the game that has left the game in such a sorry state. Old men dictating a young mans modern game is never good they have been the cause of the way the game is dropping apart.



#68 petesmithfan

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

 

Looking at the effects of option 3 is precisely what I've done.

You concentrated on the perceived negatives.  And sort to reinforce this through your narrative. " its safe to say i couldnt find anyone to agree" blah blah........ . Your article lacked balance throughout, from your narrative, to the size of your focus group! I buy your paper every week.  And I can honestly say that Monday was one of the few occasions were I thought you truly over stepped the mark..  Being one of the main media outlets for our game I hope in future you will act more responsibly. 

 

Alvin Martin

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#69 petesmithfan

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

Only 77 votes so far, and there isn't a status quo option.

 

If the new structure delivered what it's proponents claim, then I would vote for it too.

 

The problem is that it won't, and my article explains some of the rea

Petulant......................  Do not start a poll then knock its validity due to the number of voters.............. your making yourself look daft now. 


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#70 Jwdub

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:48 PM

I just don't understand the need to get personal. He's simply picked 3 big points why he thinks it won't work. I'm sure, (like I could) give hundreds of benefits and flaws but certainly not in a small article. Blake solly seems to be the man behind the ideas along with research by kpmg I believe. Blake isn't an old man and certainly spoke a lot of sense during his interview on boots n all. He seemed to be suggesting looking at all clubs not the big ones from the super league. Reaction from gary hetherington, john kear, john wells seemed to suggest they liked a change whatever it may be. However, publicising the options before a final decision has been the wrong decision.

#71 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:36 PM

The simple facts are that the game doesn't have enough money. The RFL policy review is an attempt to try and change that. Will it work? Don't know. However I'd suggest that sticking with what we've got, probably won't give us a comp that is as unpredictable or vibrant as the NRL is anytime soon.

As a Wakey fan, many of our games are dull. We're never going to win SL. We're so far off clubs like Wigan, Leeds & Wire.

The new structure gives clubs like Wakey a chance to win something. We try and stay in the top 8 with the big boys. If that doesn't work, we go into a comp where we'll be one of the big boys. We might get to that Grand Final, if not, we still might get promoted and have a chance to go again next year.

And in the top 8, most matches would be like the Wire v Hull match last night, rather than the London v Wigan game this afternoon.

Which match do you think best prepared the England players for the Exiles match in a few weeks?

We've not got enough money to sustain a SL of 14 clubs, so unless we're going to go back to 1995 and accept that Uncle Mo was right and just abandon the clubs who are bottom of the pile at this particular time in history, then I've not heard a better suggestion for the pro game in the UK than what's currentlty being proposed.

#72 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

You concentrated on the perceived negatives.  And sort to reinforce this through your narrative. " its safe to say i couldnt find anyone to agree" blah blah........ . Your article lacked balance throughout, from your narrative, to the size of your focus group! I buy your paper every week.  And I can honestly say that Monday was one of the few occasions were I thought you truly over stepped the mark..  Being one of the main media outlets for our game I hope in future you will act more responsibly. 

 

Alvin Martin

Castleford

If you think I've got it wrong, I'd be perfectly happy to see you take my arguments apart. In fact I'd be delighted if you could demonstrate that this proposed structure will deliver the vibrant, exciting game we all want to see, with increased support all round.

 

How long will I have to wait?



#73 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:06 PM

Its because of old men like him with their own opinions on what is good and what is bad about the game that has left the game in such a sorry state. Old men dictating a young mans modern game is never good they have been the cause of the way the game is dropping apart.

That's the silliest posting I've read for quite some time.



#74 Ponterover

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:35 PM


As a Wakey fan, many of our games are dull. We're never going to win SL. We're so far off clubs like Wigan, Leeds & Wire.

And in the top 8, most matches would be like the Wire v Hull match last night, rather than the London v Wigan game this afternoon.

Which match do you think best prepared the England players for the Exiles match in a few weeks?

 

 

Edited you post a bit, these are the stand out reasons why I like the idea.

 

Coming from the championship perspective, most games there are dull, it's only Leigh, Sheffield Batley and Halifax that really get the blood pumping.  With respect to the other clubs our games against them are more or less a foregone conclusion (with the odd upset I know).

 

Intensity is what England needs

 

Intensity is what the big SL clubs need

 

Intensity is what the lower SL clubs need

 

Intensity is what the big Champs clubs need

 

Intensity is what the lower champs clubs need

 

 

 

Intensity is what plan 3 will deliver.  Spectators, TV, The Press and sponsors will love it.  Dare I say that even Mr Sadler will, once it starts.


Edited by Ponterover, 18 May 2013 - 07:36 PM.


#75 Padge

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:51 PM

We are heading for the tail wagging the dog once again.


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#76 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:22 AM

The simple facts are that the game doesn't have enough money. The RFL policy review is an attempt to try and change that. Will it work? Don't know. However I'd suggest that sticking with what we've got, probably won't give us a comp that is as unpredictable or vibrant as the NRL is anytime soon.

As a Wakey fan, many of our games are dull. We're never going to win SL. We're so far off clubs like Wigan, Leeds & Wire.

The new structure gives clubs like Wakey a chance to win something. We try and stay in the top 8 with the big boys. If that doesn't work, we go into a comp where we'll be one of the big boys. We might get to that Grand Final, if not, we still might get promoted and have a chance to go again next year.

And in the top 8, most matches would be like the Wire v Hull match last night.....

Oh dear,

Your saying the middle 8 competition will allow poor Wakey to drop a level and maybe be one of the big boys and win something, whilst the other SL clubs can go off and play top class intense matches against each other.

Should EPL clubs drop out of the Premiership so they can compete for that knowing they can't get past the Manchester clubs? Second tier is second tier and the best players, the best junior stars and the fans will much more want to be in the first tier. I don't see how Wakefield will ever be a big club if they have ambitions to drop a division.

My club won the second tier competition in 1999 before 5,700. I loved that game, best ever, but second tier is no good for clubs like Wakefield. You seem in awe of Warrington who were a disappointing mid table side in a battered old ground with 5,000 fans at that time. Hull were joint bottom that year attracting 4,000 fans to the awful Boulevard.

Both clubs were rejuvinated by new grounds, and went from strength to strength. Wakefield have a new ground lined up and their crowds and performances are as good if not better than Dull and Dire's were. The only problem with Wakefield is they have spent 17 years scrubbing about semi skint.

I do hope you get behind Mr. Glover, Wakefield need to maintain their ambitions because they are eminently realisable, but NOT as a second tier club.

#77 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:40 AM

The only problem with Wakefield is they have spent 17 years scrubbing about semi skint.

That's exactly it. Wakey can't afford to be in the same league as Leeds, Wigan, Warrington etc at the moment. I don't really enjoy watching us tread water year after year, whilst we wait for the right management to come and run our club.

If some serious money comes our way then we could be as good as the best clubs in a salary cap sport, if the club is managed well.
We might find that comes from the move to the new ground, or we might make a mess of it like Salford did.

Wakey clearly have the potential to be one of the big boys, but the reality is that we're miles off what a real Super League club should be at the moment.

#78 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:45 AM

Intensity is what plan 3 will deliver.  Spectators, TV, The Press and sponsors will love it.  Dare I say that even Mr Sadler will, once it starts.

If you put clubs in a league of unequal finances then it polarises.

e.g. the old one league where Leeds used to come top as "league leaders" and Hunslet came bottom like in 1972 where our clubs had a 54 point gap on the league table.

e.g.the old first/second division which saw Bradford only lose 2 games and huyton only win 2 when it started.

e.g the third division first played out in 1992 there there was a 46 point gap between top and botom.

e.g. Superleague 2003 where Halifax started on lower funding and ended up the erong end of a 44 point gap and no points.

e.g. The Championship 2011 where Featherstone and Leigh beat everybody else out of sight.

What we know so far about the middle 8 league at the moment is at one end it will have the ninth best professional outfit on high wages coming off a tough opening competition against the best, being pitched against a semi pro outfit that has managed fourth place in the second tier.

The beauty of Superleague in theory is it's "equal funding", and it showed in the Warrington.v.Hull game friday. The problem with Superleague is the 14 clubs don't have the equal funding and so we see a yawning gap between top and bottom merely at the half way stage.

I admire your blind optimism and upbeat attitude to the proposals and like the observers to the slaughter on the Culloden battlefield I'll merely enjoy watching it and seeing how it all pans out. The middle 8 may however end up quite distastefull with lots of dead bodies.

Edited by The Parksider, 19 May 2013 - 07:45 AM.


#79 WakefieldCityLoyal

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

If option 3 was in would Warrington & Hull played each other I though Hull started the season badly so they'd have been in the second division wouldn't they

#80 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:52 AM

That's exactly it. Wakey can't afford to be in the same league as Leeds, Wigan, Warrington etc at the moment. I don't really enjoy watching us tread water year after year, whilst we wait for the right management to come and run our club.

If some serious money comes our way then we could be as good as the best clubs in a salary cap sport, if the club is managed well.
We might find that comes from the move to the new ground, or we might make a mess of it like Salford did.

Wakey clearly have the potential to be one of the big boys, but the reality is that we're miles off what a real Super League club should be at the moment.

So what do you do? Keep going forwards or drop a division. It's a no brainer.

Don't go round thinking second tier will do anything other than help erode your ambitions.

The last two club to drop down a division because they could not compete, Leigh and Cas, are in dire economic straits and Leigh got that new ground.

It's a complete myth IMHO dropping down a division allows you to strengthen.




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