Warrington Wolves v Hull FC

[Ullman]

According to Wilkin, if the video could be used on passes, then Hull would still be on 6 points.

I only have wireless, didn't see it meself, like.

12 all ht, Monaghan might have run his knock off.

Will it be no injuries becomes higher priority than 2 points?

Leeds don't have this trouble, they're not being tackled, 34-6 over there....

Jon?

Enough said.

[boris74]

I thought it was a very encouraging performance from Hull, especially with five of our seven first choice backs sitting in the stands. With the pack at full strength (touch wood) and our half-backs returning we could still rattle a few cages. We're clearly not good enough to win the competition, but we could have some fun along the way. Really looking forward to the Leeds game now.

Agree about Tom Briscoe, another astonishing effort.

I agree there were some very encouraging signs last night. I thought Reece Lyne looked the part him and Yeaman kept King and Hicks very quiet last night.

Our forwards more then held their own especially in the first half and it does make you think that if we had a pair of half backs playing we would have posted more points. Not knocking Berro or Washy but they simply are not half backs IMO.

[Dave T]

I'd like to think when Long and Horne are back, we'll pose a lot more problems. We are hopeless attackingwise when they're both missing, ie. all but four games this season.

Yep, I know a few of your Hull FC fans had said that you will never score enough points to win, and tbh after the pressure you had on us in the first 20, you really should have been well ahead.

Re Westwood's try, he may have had momentum but once your elbow has hit the deck, you can't lift your arm to put the ball down which is what he did IMO. I reckon he would have scored anyway as he was sliding over IIRC.

I agree mate, it should have been disallowed, my comment was more on the rules, for mine a double movement should be penalised if a player has been stopped and had another go, but agree that as things stand, it probably should have been disallowed.

Once again, Tom Briscoe amazed me. His ability to score in such tight situations is remarkable.

Yep, as angry as I was with Riley's pathetic effort (more and more regular these days), Briscoe's hands were amazing on getting that down, it's the kind of stuff we rave about when the likes of Inglis does it...

[tonyXIII]

Yep, as angry as I was with Riley's pathetic effort (more and more regular these days), Briscoe's hands were amazing on getting that down, it's the kind of stuff we rave about when the likes of Inglis does it...

An interesting point (not really relevant here, but ...). We often rave about the Aussies as if they were supermen, but when our own do something special, we don't. We should blow our own trumpet a bit more loudly.

[Ullman]

Re Westwood's try, he may have had momentum but once your elbow has hit the deck, you can't lift your arm to put the ball down which is what he did IMO. I reckon he would have scored anyway as he was sliding over IIRC.

Are you absolutely certain about that mate? I thought it didn't matter what you did if you still had momentum. I was surprised it wasn't referred to the VR to check, but I think it would probably have been given anyway. Looked a fair try to me at normal speed.

Maybe one of the refs on here could clear the rule up.

[Old Frightful]

Are you absolutely certain about that mate? I thought it didn't matter what you did if you still had momentum. I was surprised it wasn't referred to the VR to check, but I think it would probably have been given anyway. Looked a fair try to me at normal speed.

Maybe one of the refs on here could clear the rule up.

I think I'm certain..

http://www.rugbyleaguedigest.com.au/the-do...ment-explained/

"A player is allowed to be tackled short of the tryline, and slide with the ball over the line, but if the attacking players arm is raised off the ground and advanced forward, than it is deemed a double movement."

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, that appears to say you can slide over the line with the ball but you can't lift your elbow. Or is that bit if you're short of the line only?

Edited August 21, 2010 by Old Frightful

[GazCoops]

Atkins is not in the same league as Briscoe.

Don't forget to mention they dont play in the same position.

[GazCoops]

I think I'm certain..

http://www.rugbyleaguedigest.com.au/the-do...ment-explained/

"A player is allowed to be tackled short of the tryline, and slide with the ball over the line, but if the attacking players arm is raised off the ground and advanced forward, than it is deemed a double movement."

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, that appears to say you can slide over the line with the ball but you can't lift your elbow. Or is that bit if you're short of the line only?

I agree with Rob here, it was a certain double movement and as I said at the match was the turning point in the game, as it was the first time Wire went in front and from then they got their tails up and stepped up a gear.

[FullFat]

Yep, as angry as I was with Riley's pathetic effort (more and more regular these days

I think you're being more than a bit harsh on Riley there Dave. He missed the tackle last night but it was a great step and finish from Briscoe but I can't see where you think this is becoming at all "regular" from him.

He's made a few mistakes this season but I think he has been no worse than any one else in the team.

[Ullman]

I think I'm certain..

http://www.rugbyleaguedigest.com.au/the-do...ment-explained/

"A player is allowed to be tackled short of the tryline, and slide with the ball over the line, but if the attacking players arm is raised off the ground and advanced forward, than it is deemed a double movement."

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, that appears to say you can slide over the line with the ball but you can't lift your elbow. Or is that bit if you're short of the line only?

But that's ambiguous. It doesn't say whether that still applies if the player has forward momentum.

[Ullman]

I agree with Rob here, it was a certain double movement and as I said at the match was the turning point in the game, as it was the first time Wire went in front and from then they got their tails up and stepped up a gear.

I'm still not convinced, Gaz. It can't have been 'a certain double movement' if the referee had no hesitation in awarding the try. I didn't think Ian Smith was great last night, but I would expect he has a reasonable grasp of the laws of the game.

Or am I being naive?

[1976PMJwires]

I think you're being more than a bit harsh on Riley there Dave. He missed the tackle last night but it was a great step and finish from Briscoe but I can't see where you think this is becoming at all "regular" from him.

He's made a few mistakes this season but I think he has been no worse than any one else in the team.

I agree with Dave T

Riley needs a kick up his ######..... I would have penny in b4 him or Rhys williams (the future)

Riley needs to learn his postion and how to tackle FFS.

[getdownmonkeyman]

What a fantastic showing from Fitzgibbon.

Is there a bigger pack on a field when O'Meley. Moa, Lauaki, Radford and Cuscack are together?

[GazCoops]

I'm still not convinced, Gaz. It can't have been 'a certain double movement' if the referee had no hesitation in awarding the try. I didn't think Ian Smith was great last night, but I would expect he has a reasonable grasp of the laws of the game.

Or am I being naive?

You would think so but someone who has a reasonable grasp of the rules of the game would notice the numourous forward passes, persistant offside and players not been square at the play of the ball half the time.

Ian Smith was poor all night for both teams and missed loads, im not suprised he missed the double movement.

[Dave T]

I think you're being more than a bit harsh on Riley there Dave. He missed the tackle last night but it was a great step and finish from Briscoe but I can't see where you think this is becoming at all "regular" from him.

He's made a few mistakes this season but I think he has been no worse than any one else in the team.

I have commented on this issue a few times over the past few months tbh, some of his defencsive work has been poor at best. I don't get to many games at the moment, but I always at least watch the tries back, and more and more tries are the result of an ineffective 1on1 tackle from him. The good work from Briscoe was after the miss, if Riley is going to shoot out of the line and hit his opposite number, then it needs to be a proper hit - it wasn't and it gave Briscoe half a chance which is all he needed!

Riley has missed 25 tackles compared to Hicks' 9.

[Wilderspoolmemories]

I have commented on this issue a few times over the past few months tbh, some of his defencsive work has been poor at best. I don't get to many games at the moment, but I always at least watch the tries back, and more and more tries are the result of an ineffective 1on1 tackle from him. The good work from Briscoe was after the miss, if Riley is going to shoot out of the line and hit his opposite number, then it needs to be a proper hit - it wasn't and it gave Briscoe half a chance which is all he needed!

Riley has missed 25 tackles compared to Hicks' 9.

You obviously don't appreciate great attacking skill from opposition players.

[Ullman]

You obviously don't appreciate great attacking skill from opposition players.

That's a bit harsh. I'm sure Dave can stick up for himself, but he's one of the fairest minded individuals on this forum.

[Just Browny]

Riley is a very good player in a position that, these days, is as difficult as any on the field. While he does make the odd mistake, I'd be pleased to learn which winger doesn't, and his speed is an invaluable asset. Riley made one mistake that cost a try on Friday, and scored two of absolute quality due to his speed and positioning.

Really enjoyed Friday's game, thought Hull really gave a good account of themselves with limited manpower (for about the fifth season in a row at this time of year - I'd love to know what conditioning work they do ). Even without Briers, we brought plenty of class to the table and it was a perfect workout the week before Wembley.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Just Browny

[Dave T]

You obviously don't appreciate great attacking skill from opposition players.

So Riley did everything right then?

My post wasn't about Briscoe, but if you think that try was unstoppable, then you are clueless. Briscoe pretty much caught that ball stood still, and should have bene put on his ######. What he did with the ball was very impressive, but if you think Riley did nothing wrong there, then it's not really worth continuing the debate.

[Dave T]

Riley is a very good player in a position that, these days, is as difficult as any on the field. While he does make the odd mistake, I'd be pleased to learn which winger doesn't, and his speed is an invaluable asset. Riley made one mistake that cost a try on Friday, and scored two of absolute quality due to his speed and positioning.

Really enjoyed Friday's game, thought Hull really gave a good account of themselves with limited manpower (for about the fifth season in a row at this time of year - I'd love to know what conditioning work they do ). Even without Briers, we brought plenty of class to the table and it was a perfect workout the week before Wembley.

JB, I'm sure you know my posts well enough by now to know that I do not criticise any players lightly, especially players of my team (local ones at that!).

I was pleased that he made amends with the two tries, and I like his kick return speed, so I am not against Riley, I am just worried that he is missing more and more one-on-one tackles on a more regular basis now.

I made this judgement before looking at the stats which comprehensively backed up my point.

[getdownmonkeyman]

So Riley did everything right then?

My post wasn't about Briscoe, but if you think that try was unstoppable, then you are clueless. Briscoe pretty much caught that ball stood still, and should have bene put on his ######. What he did with the ball was very impressive, but if you think Riley did nothing wrong there, then it's not really worth continuing the debate.

I see where you are coming from. Riley coming out was the right thing to do, unfortunately, his execution was way off, Briscoe taking full advantage of the situation. The sum total is; if you are coming out to nail someone on-on-one, your execution has to be perfect.

[Just Browny]

JB, I'm sure you know my posts well enough by now to know that I do not criticise any players lightly, especially players of my team (local ones at that!).

I was pleased that he made amends with the two tries, and I like his kick return speed, so I am not against Riley, I am just worried that he is missing more and more one-on-one tackles on a more regular basis now.

I made this judgement before looking at the stats which comprehensively backed up my point.

I wasn't actually having a go at anyone (strange as it seems on an internet forum), was just making a general point. Riley has certainly made a few errors this season in defence, but I think that's because he's been concentrating on improving his finishing. All in all we've had a net positive from that, I think.

[Dave T]

I wasn't actually having a go at anyone (strange as it seems on an internet forum), was just making a general point. Riley has certainly made a few errors this season in defence, but I think that's because he's been concentrating on improving his finishing. All in all we've had a net positive from that, I think.

Don't worry I didn't think you were having a go, just adding some context around my comments.

Your final summary is a very fair comment tbh. With the ball I have no issues, I just worry whenever teams target him, and I just hope it doesn't cost us in a big game (next Saturday!!!)

[Wilderspoolmemories]

So Riley did everything right then?

My post wasn't about Briscoe, but if you think that try was unstoppable, then you are clueless. Briscoe pretty much caught that ball stood still, and should have bene put on his ######. What he did with the ball was very impressive, but if you think Riley did nothing wrong there, then it's not really worth continuing the debate.

So I "clearly do not understand the salary cap" and now I am "clueless." I may as well give up on my 35 years as a wires fan then,and go and watch basketball or something. There's no point continuing to watch a sport I so obviously(in your opinion)know so little about!!!!!!!!!

You admit that what Briscoe did was impressive,after saying he should have been put on his backside,so I rather think you contradict yourself there a little! To take the ball in that situation at speed and score would have been impressive,so to take the ball more or less standing still and still score is even more impressive,I think Tom Briscoe deserves some credit for his skill rather than people saying he only scored because riley pooped up,which is what you are suggesting. If you think there was no skill on show from Briscoe there,then it is not really worth continuing the debate.

[FullFat]

I think the try demonstrated that Briscoe has great awareness and a great step, Riley was just a fraction of a second too late and Briscoe took advantage. That said stats do not show the whole story, how many one on ones has Riley missed when abandoned by the inside defence, or when chasing across the whole length of the pitch to try and make the tackle. This has happened to him and his effort in tracking back against Pat Richards in the Wigan game to keep him out wide in my opinion won us that game.

DaveT I know your not one to criticise too often but as you said, you've not been to too many games lately and I have and whilst Riley has made mistakes plenty of other players have too and I still dispute that it's becoming more regular. Statistics on their own don't tell the whole story otherwise Phil Clarke would be the font of all knowledge RL related! Riley had a wobbly patch earlier in the season but I'd have him in the team every week. I think he will continue to improve just as the whole team will!