The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Dave T]

Easier said than done.

Ok. Charge £20 more per adult season ticket than now. This represents less than a 10% price increase despite a minimum of 1 extra game and I expect the number of people walking away because of this cost to be negligible.

 

The trend of having direct debits and spread payments means that the actual price has become less important for many. Some DD schemes have even charged interest.

 

People are paid to work this out, it's really not that difficult.

[yipyee]

Ok. Charge £20 more per adult season ticket than now. This represents less than a 10% price increase despite a minimum of 1 extra game and I expect the number of people walking away because of this cost to be negligible.

The trend of having direct debits and spread payments means that the actual price has become less important for many. Some DD schemes have even charged interest.

People are paid to work this out, it's really not that difficult.

what about juniors and discounts?

What if you're drawn away from home?

[Dave T]

so would I be buying 3 or 4 games? Would I get a refund for just 3?

also it doesn't solve the problem that the REAL playoffs will be a hard sell as per usual!

That isn't the real problem. 

 

People are interested in the playoffs. They usually get good tv crowds and the crowds are not that bad.

 

If you have a season ticket you have probably paid £15 per game per adult and £3 per junior ticket. This £36 for 4 often becomes over £60 now for a game.

Add to this that the 8 team playoff means that you can have 4 consecutive all-pay games if you get to the GF, it is no wonder that people save their money and watch on TV. It is not that they are not interested.

 

Playoffs are not the issue - the structure leading to more all-pay games is. This new structure potentially fixes that.

[Dave T]

what about juniors and discounts?

What if you're drawn away from home?

Do you know that it's not that important?

 

Warrington have 6 different prices to watch them from the South Stand this year as an adult.

 

ST Renewal = £15.85 per game

Early Bird     = £17.31 per game

ST                = £18.77 per game

Half ST         = £17.50 per game

Pre-match     = £19.50 per game

Matchday      = £20.50 per game

 

Some tickets give you 3 free matches, some 2, some 1, some none. People will buy them.

 

Put together a package that gives value, I would expect that price sensitivity with season tickets is not a massive issue.

 

If it's an issue simply add a certain amount and if you don't get a home game, give it as discount of next year's, or even off a shirt.

 

Really quite minor 'issues'.

[Griff]

what if your teams not at home?

 

Mate - you've not read what I said.

 

They can use the voucher.  The clubs take it into account when they divi up.

[Griff]

That isn't the real problem. 

 

People are interested in the playoffs. They usually get good tv crowds and the crowds are not that bad.

 

If you have a season ticket you have probably paid £15 per game per adult and £3 per junior ticket. This £36 for 4 often becomes over £60 now for a game.

Add to this that the 8 team playoff means that you can have 4 consecutive all-pay games if you get to the GF, it is no wonder that people save their money and watch on TV. It is not that they are not interested.

 

Playoffs are not the issue - the structure leading to more all-pay games is. This new structure potentially fixes that.

 

You say the crowds hold up but that all-pay games are a problem.

 

Which is it ?

[Dave T]

You say the crowds hold up but that all-pay games are a problem.

 

Which is it ?

I said crowds are not that bad. I didn;t say they hold up.

[Griff]

That isn't the real problem. 

 

People are interested in the playoffs. They usually get good tv crowds and the crowds are not that bad.

 

If you have a season ticket you have probably paid £15 per game per adult and £3 per junior ticket. This £36 for 4 often becomes over £60 now for a game.

 

How do people afford to buy season tickets when they can't afford £60 for a game ?  What's the outlay for two adult and two junior tickets at a $uperleague club these days ?

[yipyee]

Mate - you've not read what I said.

They can use the voucher. The clubs take it into account when they divi up.

so your saying that saints 10000 ST holders could all attend a cup game at widnes.... where do the widnes ST holders sit?

What if the away game is catalan. . In effect you have been forced to buy a useless ticket....

does a club have to surrender the whole 10 quid or just for the attending fans? Will the club charge a fee for admin costs?

[yipyee]

How do people afford to buy season tickets when they can't afford £60 for a game ? What's the outlay for two adult and two junior tickets at a $uperleague club these days ?

255 for cheapest (218 for renewal) for 1+1 at saints

[Dave T]

How do people afford to buy season tickets when they can't afford £60 for a game ?  What's the outlay for two adult and two junior tickets at a $uperleague club these days ?

Speaking from personal experience of me and my friends and family, people budget in for their season tickets. Some get these as Christmas gifts.

 

There is also the element of spreading the cost over a few months and the fact that you are getting a discount.

 

People can afford season tickets, where some draw the line is the ADDITIONAL £60 per game (and for any team to win the playoffs it will be a minimum of 2 extra home games and a Final in the space of 4 weeks).

 

It can cost around £540 for a family ticket at Warrington.

[Griff]

So ticket prices are too high ?

 

http://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php/topic/246098-admission-prices/

 

Seems like only a few weeks ago that everyone was saying how reasonable they were.

[Griff]

so your saying that saints 10000 ST holders could all attend a cup game at widnes.... where do the widnes ST holders sit?

What if the away game is catalan. . In effect you have been forced to buy a useless ticket....

does a club have to surrender the whole 10 quid or just for the attending fans? Will the club charge a fee for admin costs?

 

We had this scheme a few years ago.  There were no "lockouts" that I can recall. 

 

The only change I suggested is to how the scheme was financed.

[DAZROVER1985]

According to report from love rugby league if no vote is reached next week then super league will stay at 14 teams in 2015 with 2 relegated this year and 2 promoted

[keighley]

I agree with your general premise, but not so sure on the potential increase in attendance being sustained for the super 8.   No evidence but purely speculation of playing the teams so many times may dilute desire to always attend as the seasons go over the years. 

 

That is will play each team  x3 times minimal, one team at least x4 times taking account of magic weekend.  Then have the final top 4 play-off round will mean at least 4^th time played that team and possible x5 times depending on magic weekend.  Ignoring the final which will always be a special occasion.  I guess it will also depend how they package the season tickets for the first play-off “league” rounds in the x8 league when some teams will have more home games and can not guarantee will be in top 8 when first selling the season tickets at beginning of season.

 

I wonder how it will further hit the challenge cup as years go on if playing the teams so often in the "normal" league structure.

 

Despite the attractiveness of the top eight fixtures, I think the constant repetition, multiple times in a single season, with little variation and new or different opponents could well result in boredom or same old, same old fatigue and before long, the constant sameness of the fixtures will result in a decrease in attendances and a loss of interest.  I think this is a very definite negative of a too small league. 

 

At one point there was an eight team 2nd division with a larger 1st and 2rd Division and the teams played each other 4 times and , as I recall, the attendances in that 2nd tier were very poor.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

I agree with your general premise, but not so sure on the potential increase in attendance being sustained for the super 8.   No evidence but purely speculation of playing the teams so many times may dilute desire to always attend as the seasons go over the years. 

 

That is will play each team  x3 times minimal, one team at least x4 times taking account of magic weekend.  Then have the final top 4 play-off round will mean at least 4^th time played that team and possible x5 times depending on magic weekend.  Ignoring the final which will always be a special occasion.  I guess it will also depend how they package the season tickets for the first play-off “league” rounds in the x8 league when some teams will have more home games and can not guarantee will be in top 8 when first selling the season tickets at beginning of season.

 

I wonder how it will further hit the challenge cup as years go on if playing the teams so often in the "normal" league structure.

 

 

Good post, and does anyone know how Sky will take to these oft repeated games.

 

It's noticeable that the posts are now all  about money,  Suprise Suprise ! I thought this was all about the good or the game, Although I don't seem to see many mentions for the teams who are not going to be in the new 24 set up, 

 

There may be trouble ahead

[GIANTSTRIDES]

Despite the attractiveness of the top eight fixtures, I think the constant repetition, multiple times in a single season, with little variation and new or different opponents could well result in boredom or same old, same old fatigue and before long, the constant sameness of the fixtures will result in a decrease in attendances and a loss of interest.  I think this is a very definite negative of a too small league. 

 

At one point there was an eight team 2nd division with a larger 1st and 2rd Division and the teams played each other 4 times and , as I recall, the attendances in that 2nd tier were very poor.

 

Agree.

[Lobbygobbler]

Interesting to me was the fact that if they can't resolve the format impasse at this meeting, the default position will be a 2 up 2 down p and r in 2015. That would suit me fine.

I would also be happy with 2 up 2 down as that would offer sufficient hope and refreshment for clubs and fans outside SL. There would also be more interesting relegation battles in SL. 1 up 1 down was not ideal and would be much harder for the likes of Crusaders to sneak in. I'm equally happy with 2x12 and then 3x8 or 2up 2down

[yipyee]

We had this scheme a few years ago. There were no "lockouts" that I can recall.

The only change I suggested is to how the scheme was financed.

yes but it was free....if you've paid you will be more inclined to go!

if you are locked out from a free ticket its unfortunate, if you are locked out from a ticket you have paid for its amateurish and quite possibly criminal!

Edited January 10, 2014 by yipyee

[yipyee]

I would also be happy with 2 up 2 down as that would offer sufficient hope and refreshment for clubs and fans outside SL. There would also be more interesting relegation battles in SL. 1 up 1 down was not ideal and would be much harder for the likes of Crusaders to sneak in. I'm equally happy with 2x12 and then 3x8 or 2up 2down

crusaders would have auto gone up with 2up....its widnes who wouldnt be there now!!!

[keighley]

crusaders would have auto gone up with 2up....its widnes who wouldnt be there now!!!

 

Crusaders went up as Champions of CC1. The next season will be their first in the Championship.

[gingerjon]

, as I recall, the attendances in that 2nd tier were very poor.

 

I can't speak for the attendances as I was mostly at Carlisle at a time when they never had many through the gates but I do remember the standard of play being very good.  It was an 8 team division with 2 leaving at the top and 2 at the bottom though so it was all a bit bonkers.

[Widnesbernie]

According to report from love rugby league if no vote is reached next week then super league will stay at 14 teams in 2015 with 2 relegated this year and 2 promoted

Toulouse seem think that they are already in for 2015. How does that work with 2 up & 2 down? 

 

http://www.superleague2015.to13.com/

[DAZROVER1985]

Toulouse seem think that they are already in for 2015. How does that work with 2 up & 2 down?

http://www.superleague2015.to13.com/

toulouse and 1 from championship maybe

[Griff]

At one point there was an eight team 2nd division with a larger 1st and 2rd Division and the teams played each other 4 times and , as I recall, the attendances in that 2nd tier were very poor.

 

No, they weren't.  On the contrary, they were very good.