Jump to content

The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


Recommended Posts

Hi Ponte,

 

We knew weeks ago that the cut in Superleague and P & R were all but happening. For me there's no strong leadership here and the RFL bosses are trying to be everything to every man and the SLE bosses have no stomach for any really radical changes, as they are also club bosses and are probably a bit easier just looking after themselves (i.e. big SL clubs vote for an 8 club SL, struggling SL clubs vote for an end to the cost of licensing). For me the time will come for a closed Superleague when the problems the game has deteriorate further - IF indeed that is what will happen if we bring back P & R or 2x12=3x8.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to say there is no strong leadership, I'd disagree with that.

 

Now we may all agree or disagree with the actual solutions proposed, but  the RFL have managed to bring a very controversial proposal to life and get around 30 of the 38 clubs to support it so far. If they get this voted in, personally I would say that has been quite decisive and strong leadership to make some pretty major changes within the game.

 

The fact that P&R has already been voted back in suggests that the bigger SL clubs are not interested in a small closed-shop SL, and the likes of Gary Hetherington are publicly supporting the radical changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 4.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The RLE poll on whether individuals supported the 2 x 12, 3 x 8 system from almost 500 people, presumably from all areas of the game, voted Yes - 168 (34.1%); No - 325 (65.9%), almost 2 to 1 against.

Whilst the numbers are small I believe they are indicative of the feelings of the fans, especially Championship fans.

Whilst opinion polls of fans/customers can help to shape thinking, they should not be used solely to make decisions. Actual behaviours are more important - ie. will fans actually stop going to games if their non-preferred solution is implemented. If they will all still go, then the poll should in effect be ignored if other benefits (TV deal, sponsorship etc) is beneficial.

 

If you ran a poll next week asking if the overseas quota should remain at 5 or drop to zero, I suspect the zero answer would win handsomely but it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The RLE poll on whether individuals supported the 2 x 12, 3 x 8 system from almost 500 people, presumably from all areas of the game, voted Yes - 168 (34.1%); No - 325 (65.9%), almost 2 to 1 against.

Whilst the numbers are small I believe they are indicative of the feelings of the fans, especially Championship fans.

 

A previous online poll on this website had 3x8 as a narrow winner, with a similar sample size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst opinion polls of fans/customers can help to shape thinking, they should not be used solely to make decisions. Actual behaviours are more important - ie. will fans actually stop going to games if their non-preferred solution is implemented. If they will all still go, then the poll should in effect be ignored if other benefits (TV deal, sponsorship etc) is beneficial.

If you ran a poll next week asking if the overseas quota should remain at 5 or drop to zero, I suspect the zero answer would win handsomely but it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

stumbling onto another topic here I would be in favour of 2, and of course all the SS islanders!

Two marquee players (franchise players if you will)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A previous online poll on this website had 3x8 as a narrow winner, with a similar sample size.

 

Why do you like it, Ponterover ?  You never said.

 

Is it the endless qualifying from one league to another with no point in winning them ?  Or is it the reduced chance of Rovers getting promoted ?  Or what ?

 

Just asking, like.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do you like it, Ponterover ?  You never said.

 

Is it the endless qualifying from one league to another with no point in winning them ?  Or is it the reduced chance of Rovers getting promoted ?  Or what ?

 

Just asking, like.

 

I've posted about a million times my thoughts on why it's good for every club, and the sport.

 

Rovers are irrelevant to my thoughts on this, straight forward P&R would be the easiest way for them to enter SL.

Edited by Ponterover
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Operational Rule B3.3 says,"The league competitions shall be divided in to three divisions".

that's right

 

but it isn't actually the case is it?

 

see rule B3.4 for instance.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've posted about a million times my thoughts on why it's good for every club, and the sport.

Rovers are irrelevant to my thoughts on this, straight forward P&R would be the easiest way for them to enter SL.

wouldn't rovers board prefer 3 guaranteed seasons in the SL?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, and neither would the paying customers

so your saying that the board and fans only want 1 year in SL and then be in the championship again?

Crazy!!!

Do widnes fans and board want to be back in the championship? ?

Bizare knee jerk comment me thinks??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so your saying that the board and fans only want 1 year in SL and then be in the championship again?

Crazy!!!

Do widnes fans and board want to be back in the championship? ?

Bizare knee jerk comment me thinks??

 

It's been done to death.

 

3 years guaranteed SL = boring as hell, no excitement, no chance of winning anything, no consequences to losing. An endless diet of mediocrity.

 

If I was a Widnes fan (or Cas, Wakey, Hull KR, London etc) I would be bored beyond belief and seriously thinking about whether or not the season ticket was worth buying. 

 

See the Cas CEO's recent comments.

Edited by Ponterover
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The fact that P&R has already been voted back in suggests that the bigger SL clubs are not interested in a small closed-shop SL, and the likes of Gary Hetherington are publicly supporting the radical changes.

 

It may suggest that Dave. Events may suggest that 2x12=3x8 has the effect - for the top eight SL clubs - Of dumping several late season fixtures against smaller SL sides who are doing badly, replacing them with more fixtures against top sides.

 

In 2003 Leeds got Bradford at home 21,225 attendance and Bradford away 23,375 attendance.

 

Because it was a 12 club Superleague Leeds got a third fixture against Bradford and another 21,200 home crowd. Had it have been a 14 club Superleague they would have had Leigh instead. Last time they played Leigh in SL their crowd was 3,000 down on average.

 

This is what fresh faces do to attendances.

 

Mr. Hetherington is a smart salesman and he can do his figures and find the right time to sell things. It may be that after a few more seasons of P & R badly affecting clubs who cant hack promotion and more seasons of clubs being ruined by it, plus a few seasons of so called SL clubs losing more of their best players to the top eight, dumping their academies and cutting their operations to reduce debts, the gulf will then be between the top eight and the rest.

 

Who knows? In three seasons time P & R may have revitalised the second and third and fourth!! tiers of the game so much so the top eight will be shaking in their boots?? Who knows Wood may have gone by then carrying all the blame for the games demise leaving Gary to pick up the pieces and put in a 10 club Superleague like his chief Executive mate at the RU premiership advised??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's been done to death.

 

3 years guaranteed SL =  no consequences to losing.

 

See the Cas CEO's recent comments.

 

The consequences to losing??

 

Bradford Bulls 15,700 average crowd, slashed by half and administration??

 

London Broncos opened as Harlequins with an 8,200 crowd, collapsed last year to a 1,136 worst crowd??

 

These are the facts and the factual consequences to losing.

 

Castleford have been relegated twice, are habitual losers, lose their best players to other SL clubs every year, are reportedly heavily in debt and danger of closure if they are relegated (ref Martyn Sadler).

 

No wonder they aren't bothered at Cas anymore, they are suffering all the consequences of losing??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The consequences to losing??

Bradford Bulls 15,700 average crowd, slashed by half and administration??

London Broncos opened as Harlequins with an 8,200 crowd, collapsed last year to a 1,136 worst crowd??

These are the facts and the factual consequences to losing.

Castleford have been relegated twice, are habitual losers, lose their best players to other SL clubs every year, are reportedly heavily in debt and danger of closure if they are relegated (ref Martyn Sadler).

No wonder they aren't bothered at Cas anymore, they are suffering all the consequences of losing??

so this backs up how big a failure licensing has been then
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may suggest that Dave. Events may suggest that 2x12=3x8 has the effect - for the top eight SL clubs - Of dumping several late season fixtures against smaller SL sides who are doing badly, replacing them with more fixtures against top sides.

 

In 2003 Leeds got Bradford at home 21,225 attendance and Bradford away 23,375 attendance.

 

Because it was a 12 club Superleague Leeds got a third fixture against Bradford and another 21,200 home crowd. Had it have been a 14 club Superleague they would have had Leigh instead. Last time they played Leigh in SL their crowd was 3,000 down on average.

 

This is what fresh faces do to attendances.

 

Mr. Hetherington is a smart salesman and he can do his figures and find the right time to sell things. It may be that after a few more seasons of P & R badly affecting clubs who cant hack promotion and more seasons of clubs being ruined by it, plus a few seasons of so called SL clubs losing more of their best players to the top eight, dumping their academies and cutting their operations to reduce debts, the gulf will then be between the top eight and the rest.

 

Who knows? In three seasons time P & R may have revitalised the second and third and fourth!! tiers of the game so much so the top eight will be shaking in their boots?? Who knows Wood may have gone by then carrying all the blame for the games demise leaving Gary to pick up the pieces and put in a 10 club Superleague like his chief Executive mate at the RU premiership advised??

But a vote to go to 12 would reduce the number of games against the lower teams, not the vote to have the 3x8 playoffs. I suspect that would be an easy vote, but Hetherington and others are interested in the 'jeopardy' element (I hate that phrase!) that the SL/Cham 1 Playoffs bring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But a vote to go to 12 would reduce the number of games against the lower teams, not the vote to have the 3x8 playoffs. I suspect that would be an easy vote, but Hetherington and others are interested in the 'jeopardy' element (I hate that phrase!) that the SL/Cham 1 Playoffs bring.

that could happen with straight play offs though!

Every game would be meaningful!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The consequences to losing??

 

Bradford Bulls 15,700 average crowd, slashed by half and administration??

 

London Broncos opened as Harlequins with an 8,200 crowd, collapsed last year to a 1,136 worst crowd??

 

These are the facts and the factual consequences to losing.

 

Castleford have been relegated twice, are habitual losers, lose their best players to other SL clubs every year, are reportedly heavily in debt and danger of closure if they are relegated (ref Martyn Sadler).

 

No wonder they aren't bothered at Cas anymore, they are suffering all the consequences of losing??

Cas out Toulouse in

 

Happy days

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.......

 

You need to get over your delusions of grandeur on the greatness of the Bulls , bro. IF, and it's only a hypothetical IF, Keighley had a multi million pound investor, as things stand at present with the Bulls, Keighley would be the best fit for SL. It could be Batley. or Rochdale or even Crusaders which could fit into that analogy but the OP happened to put Keighley.

He seems to dwell less obsessively on the Bulls than other people.

 

If Keighly had a huge investor, they could enter Super Leauge and possibly pull in 6,000+, but probably do little else for the game.  Therefore, there might be no rush to include them.  If they offered to forgo their TV money, I am sure they would be welcomed in.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Article in the Yorkshire post on the 12/8 split today

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/looking-to-bridge-the-gap-to-super-league-1-6361565

Pretty much sums up what i like about the idea

it says fev got 25k for topping the league. ...what did Sheffield get for winning it? Did fev get anything for coming second?

Didnt cru get 50k for winning div2?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Article in the Yorkshire post on the 12/8 split today

 

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/looking-to-bridge-the-gap-to-super-league-1-6361565

 

Pretty much sums up what i like about the idea

What? That it suits your club?

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it says fev got 25k for topping the league. ...what did Sheffield get for winning it? Did fev get anything for coming second?

Didnt cru get 50k for winning div2?

 

Fev came third, not second.  Batley came second.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.