The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Dave T]

What? That it suits your club?

That's a bit out of order. I like the idea too and I don't support Featherstone.

[The Parksider]

But a vote to go to 12 would reduce the number of games against the lower teams, not the vote to have the 3x8 playoffs. I suspect that would be an easy vote, but Hetherington and others are interested in the 'jeopardy' element.

 

What exact interest does the likes of Leeds, Saints, Warrington, Huddersfield, Wigan Catalans and and Hull have in the return of relegation?? They are all too rich for it to affect them??

 

They all have the actual figures for the "jeopardy" element of the game when we had P & R, these figures were published in RL World and P& R did not attract more fans, they all have the figures for the decline in attendances for second tier RL.

 

None of them are saying that 2x12=3x8 is going to revitalise the game. They have allowed Wood to pay KPMG to produce a report to say that and they are all quoting that report. 

 

IMVHO and I respect yours, A 14 clubs Superleague has to go because it hasn't the money to sustain it and it may nothave the money for 12..

 

Of the 14 SL clubs

 

1. Bradford - halved crowds and administration

2. Wakefield - lost rich owners and administration and further debt

3. London - total collapse to nothing

4. Castleford heavily in debt - straight relegation may = closure

5. Salford - lost rich owner nearly dissapeared

6. Hull.K.R. Rich owner tried to sell out, then stood down complaining he could not go on

 

Dave I don't think for one minute the changes are about making the games more exciting or being fair and inclusive to Championship clubs, it's about the collapse of Superleague. If they go for 2x12=3x8 for me it will signal that they don't feel they can sustain 12.

 

Once they drop licensing and open up the competition below the top eight  for me it's to solve the SL crisis and stop rich men leaving SL due to the glass ceiling and to help SL clubs cut costs, and cut clubs going into administration.

 

This really isn't the start of a massive revival for the game - again IMVHO.

[JohnM]

 as a way of reintroducing promotion and relegation     

 

 

but at least it was a fairly clear explanation of the proposes suicide pact.

 

Did six Sl clubs actually walk out though?  As in" get up and leave before the meeting was closed" ?

[yipyee]

Fev came third, not second. Batley came second.

well pointed out.....is this why their money was so low and quoted out of context?

Pretty sure hudd would have got way less than wigan!

[l'angelo mysterioso]

That's a bit out of order. I like the idea too and I don't support Featherstone.

fine

 

people have different reasons for doing things

 

self interest is one of them

[l'angelo mysterioso]

 as a way of reintroducing promotion and relegation     

 

 

but at least it was a fairly clear explanation of the proposes suicide pact.

 

Did six Sl clubs actually walk out though?  As in" get up and leave before the meeting was closed" ?

quite

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Does it though ?

speaking as an outsider it doesn't suit anyone because it's bad for the long term prospects of the professional game qv

[tuutaisrambo]

fine

 

people have different reasons for doing things

 

self interest is one of them

 

Well yes i think the new format would be a good idea so if that is self interest then so be it!

 

Not so sure it's the best thing for my team with our record in sudden death rugby but we'll see.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Well yes i think the new format would be a good idea so if that is self interest then so be it!

 

Not so sure it's the best thing for my team with our record in sudden death rugby but we'll see.

Well said

In fact a better response than perhaps my post deserved

[Dave T]

What exact interest does the likes of Leeds, Saints, Warrington, Huddersfield, Wigan Catalans and and Hull have in the return of relegation?? They are all too rich for it to affect them??

 

They all have the actual figures for the "jeopardy" element of the game when we had P & R, these figures were published in RL World and P& R did not attract more fans, they all have the figures for the decline in attendances for second tier RL.

 

None of them are saying that 2x12=3x8 is going to revitalise the game. They have allowed Wood to pay KPMG to produce a report to say that and they are all quoting that report. 

 

IMVHO and I respect yours, A 14 clubs Superleague has to go because it hasn't the money to sustain it and it may nothave the money for 12..

 

Of the 14 SL clubs

 

1. Bradford - halved crowds and administration

2. Wakefield - lost rich owners and administration and further debt

3. London - total collapse to nothing

4. Castleford heavily in debt - straight relegation may = closure

5. Salford - lost rich owner nearly dissapeared

6. Hull.K.R. Rich owner tried to sell out, then stood down complaining he could not go on

 

Dave I don't think for one minute the changes are about making the games more exciting or being fair and inclusive to Championship clubs, it's about the collapse of Superleague. If they go for 2x12=3x8 for me it will signal that they don't feel they can sustain 12.

 

Once they drop licensing and open up the competition below the top eight  for me it's to solve the SL crisis and stop rich men leaving SL due to the glass ceiling and to help SL clubs cut costs, and cut clubs going into administration.

 

This really isn't the start of a massive revival for the game - again IMVHO.

The interest that the clubs you name should have is of a more vibrant competitive league that attracts more fans, sponsors and tv money. Now this solution may not deliver that, but then again it may, if Warrington for example believe that this will give the game a shot in the arm, then that should have benefits to Warrington etc. too.

 

It is in everyone's interests that the game thrives.

 

I think people are over-stating the 3x8 thing, including you in the above post.

Super League will be a 12 team competition. At the end of the regular rounds there will then be a longer playoff series. The non-qualifiers of the SL Playoffs will then drop into their own playoffs involving the top Champ teams. This will be instead of their season just coming to an end. The structure changes are not that radical imo, certainly now they are playing full home and away before any split.

[bamfordsbeans]

Interesting in the YP article that Featherstone are planning 12 full-timers next season.

One of the key factors for the championship clubs next year will be the salary cap.Also if that cap is increased significantly -can they afford to fund it?

Featherstone seem to be a well run club at the moment-and if Halifax and Leigh can do likewise I see some exciting games in the play-offs.

The top sector get extra fixtures against fellow top teams-so on the face of it the new system seems OK.

[Dave T]

What is the cap in the KPC?

 

I thought it was £300k, how can 12 full time players be accommodated under that?

[bamfordsbeans]

Everybody seems to talk about the viability of full-time operations without mentioning the salaries the players are on.Clubs like Bradford,Wakefield,london and Castleford

will be better off paying players say £30-£35K per year than what they are at present.The key for the game is to sort out a structure that allows for this.At the moment a £1.65m and £300k is too big a gap.

[Ponterover]

What is the cap in the KPC?

 

I thought it was £300k, how can 12 full time players be accommodated under that?

 

It's £300k at the moment.  Clubs can also employ players in the community department to suppliment playing wages, Fev have a few such as Andy Ellis, Ian Hardman and James Cording among others.

 

From what we've been told, it will be significantly more from next year onwards.  I've heard £1m, but nothing concrete.

[Griff]

Well yes i think the new format would be a good idea so if that is self interest then so be it!

 

Not so sure it's the best thing for my team with our record in sudden death rugby but we'll see.

 

Sudden death ? Surely you'll just finish top of the middle eight .... no sudden death required.

[yipyee]

Everybody seems to talk about the viability of full-time operations without mentioning the salaries the players are on.Clubs like Bradford,Wakefield,london and Castleford

will be better off paying players say £30-£35K per year than what they are at present.The key for the game is to sort out a structure that allows for this.At the moment a £1.65m and £300k is too big a gap.

how many top players can you attract with low wages? As soon as a player starts playing well they will be poached.....I am sure there will be players at the said clubs on this amount and less....but of course there will be the top earners. .....

[DAZROVER1985]

Sudden death ? Surely you'll just finish top of the middle eight .... no sudden death required.

think I remember them saying they would be doing end of season play offs in the mini leagues, wether they would have any effect on who goes up I'm not sure

[Griff]

think I remember them saying they would be doing end of season play offs in the mini leagues, wether they would have any effect on who goes up I'm not sure

 

Fourth v Fifth. In the middle division, you have to finish in the middle to get to the Grand Final.

[yipyee]

Fourth v Fifth. In the middle division, you have to finish in the middle to get to the Grand Final.

so you could earn more money by finishing a place lower...I.e 4th over3rd....magic

[Griff]

so you could earn more money by finishing a place lower...I.e 4th over3rd....magic

 

Not sure about that.  The finances haven't been made public.

 

Maybe you could make more money finishing 5th than third.  It's a great scheme, isn't it ? 

 

No Big Day Out for the top three - leave that to Fourth and Fifth.

[Keith T]

The Championship salary cap is £300k but it can rise to £400k if the club shows that it can meet that higher amount.

 

The YP article talks about the local derbies between Wakey, Cas and Fev but that might not be the case.   Substitute London and Catalans for Wakey and Cas and it would be a different story.

[Griff]

Twelves and Eights makes no sense if half the clubs in the middle division are restricted to even £400k.

 

It will have to change as part of the package.

[Ponterover]

Twelves and Eights makes no sense if half the clubs in the middle division are restricted to even £400k.

 

It will have to change as part of the package.

 

£1m was quoted by our BOD at the last fans meeting.

[a.n Other]

The Championship salary cap is £300k but it can rise to £400k if the club shows that it can meet that higher amount.

The YP article talks about the local derbies between Wakey, Cas and Fev but that might not be the case. Substitute London and Catalans for Wakey and Cas and it would be a different story.

They haven't confirmed what the salary cap will be for the 2nd tier next year. Halifax and certainly Fev are under the impression it will be much higher than £400k.

[Ponterover]

Twelves and Eights makes no sense if half the clubs in the middle division are restricted to even £400k.

 

It will have to change as part of the package.

 

I knew I remembered reading that somewhere, but wasn't sure if I'd mis-remembered.

 

Wonder if Fev and Leigh have made use of that facility this year.  I'm struggling to see how either squad will fit within £300k.