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John Drake

Labour leadership contest

Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?

    • Andy Burnham
      13
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      14
    • Liz Kendall
      7
    • I would never vote Labour
      8
  2. 2. Did you vote Labour in the 2015 General Election?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      29
  3. 3. Do you have a vote in the Labour leadership election?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      44
  4. 4. Who would you vote for in the Labour leadership election?

    • Andy Burnham
      15
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      18
    • Liz Kendall
      9


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The good thing for Corbyn is that it's four and half years until the next election.

 

So he can get his mistakes out of the way early.

 

Another mistake, I think, is his appointing a vegan woman as his Shadow Agriculture Secretary who apparently thinks that meat eaters should be treated like smokers.

 

I'm not too sure that's going to work.

 

Like you say, early days yet. I also think Labour's electability at the next general election will also depend on the direction of travel of the Tories. Now the Lib Dem breaks are off they seem to be heading further rightwards, and if this week's attack is anything to go by, they may want to ditch middle of the road Dave sooner rather than later in favour of a much less moderate leader.

 

Speaking of which, some of the things announced this week from them don't look that great. Last week it was considered unpatriotic to not sing a few bars of the national anthem, but this week it is ok to commit billions of pounds worth of taxpayers money (Hinkley Point and HS2) to foreign companies, and companies residing it what, until very recently, was considered an enemy state and one that still has an appalling record on human rights. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Like you say, early days yet. I also think Labour's electability at the next general election will also depend on the direction of travel of the Tories. Now the Lib Dem breaks are off they seem to be heading further rightwards, and if this week's attack is anything to go by, they may want to ditch middle of the road Dave sooner rather than later in favour of a much less moderate leader.

 

Speaking of which, some of the things announced this week from them don't look that great. Last week it was considered unpatriotic to not sing a few bars of the national anthem, but this week it is ok to commit billions of pounds worth of taxpayers money (Hinkley Point and HS2) to foreign companies, and companies residing it what, until very recently, was considered an enemy state and one that still has an appalling record on human rights. 

 

They won't care about human rights.

 

The fact that their economy is about to go off a cliff (if some predictions are right) should be of greater concern.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Corbyn seen as more honest than most politicians but Cameron leads on other PM attributes

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3626/Corbyn-seen-as-more-honest-than-most-politicians-but-Cameron-leads-on-other-PM-attributes.aspx

More than half (54%) of Britons say Jeremy Corbyn is ‘more honest than most politicians’ compared to three in ten (30%) who say the same for David Cameron. However only 32% think he’s a capable leader compared to 62% saying this for David Cameron. When asked if either ‘has sound judgment’ 32% say Mr Corbyn possesses this while 46% say Mr Cameron does. Less of the public however believe that Jeremy Corbyn is ‘out of touch with ordinary people’ when compared to David Cameron (39% versus 64%), but he falls far behind David Cameron when being seen as ‘patriotic’ (37% compared to 76%).
Mr Corbyn’s Labour party leads the Conservatives as concerned about people in real need (61% versus 32%). Forty-three per cent also say Labour is the party that ‘looks after the interests of people like me’ compared to 37% who say the same of the Conservatives. More Britons however see the Conservatives as a party fit to govern (56% compared to 35%) as well as being a party with a ‘good team of leaders’ (49% compared to 27%). Worryingly for Labour three in four (75%) see the party as being divided compared to 38% who say the same for the Conservatives.

Mr Corbyn’s Labour party leads the Conservatives as concerned about people in real need (61% versus 32%). Forty-three per cent also say Labour is the party that ‘looks after the interests of people like me’ compared to 37% who say the same of the Conservatives. More Britons however see the Conservatives as a party fit to govern (56% compared to 35%) as well as being a party with a ‘good team of leaders’ (49% compared to 27%). Worryingly for Labour three in four (75%) see the party as being divided compared to 38% who say the same for the Conservatives.

 

Hope and despair there in equal measure for Labour supporters.


.

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Corbyn seen as more honest than most politicians but Cameron leads on other PM attributes

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3626/Corbyn-seen-as-more-honest-than-most-politicians-but-Cameron-leads-on-other-PM-attributes.aspx

More than half (54%) of Britons say Jeremy Corbyn is ‘more honest than most politicians’ compared to three in ten (30%) who say the same for David Cameron. However only 32% think he’s a capable leader compared to 62% saying this for David Cameron. When asked if either ‘has sound judgment’ 32% say Mr Corbyn possesses this while 46% say Mr Cameron does. Less of the public however believe that Jeremy Corbyn is ‘out of touch with ordinary people’ when compared to David Cameron (39% versus 64%), but he falls far behind David Cameron when being seen as ‘patriotic’ (37% compared to 76%).

Mr Corbyn’s Labour party leads the Conservatives as concerned about people in real need (61% versus 32%). Forty-three per cent also say Labour is the party that ‘looks after the interests of people like me’ compared to 37% who say the same of the Conservatives. More Britons however see the Conservatives as a party fit to govern (56% compared to 35%) as well as being a party with a ‘good team of leaders’ (49% compared to 27%). Worryingly for Labour three in four (75%) see the party as being divided compared to 38% who say the same for the Conservatives.

Mr Corbyn’s Labour party leads the Conservatives as concerned about people in real need (61% versus 32%). Forty-three per cent also say Labour is the party that ‘looks after the interests of people like me’ compared to 37% who say the same of the Conservatives. More Britons however see the Conservatives as a party fit to govern (56% compared to 35%) as well as being a party with a ‘good team of leaders’ (49% compared to 27%). Worryingly for Labour three in four (75%) see the party as being divided compared to 38% who say the same for the Conservatives.

 

Hope and despair there in equal measure for Labour supporters.

The real comparison is not with Cameron but the actual Prime Minister - George Osborne. Forget the monkey in the reassuring outfit and take a look at the organ grinder with a manic look in his eye.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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The real comparison is not with Cameron but the actual Prime Minister - George Osborne. Forget the monkey in the reassuring outfit and take a look at the organ grinder with a manic look in his eye.

 

Like this you mean?

 

 

:O

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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The real comparison is not with Cameron but the actual Prime Minister - George Osborne. Forget the monkey in the reassuring outfit and take a look at the organ grinder with a manic look in his eye.

As Bob Marley once sang "Let's get together to fight unholy Oiky Gideon" :P 


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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 BTW, Im not right wing. I'm a centrist, a one nation Conservative.

One nation, all required to vote Conservative.

;)  :D 


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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Oh, and when did post war rationing stop?

 

1954.

 

After five years of a Labour government, followed by 3 years of a Conservative government.

 

As McMillan said, 'you've never had it so good.'

 

Then he went on his knees to beg to join the Common Market.

Meanwhile his wife was also on her knees, somewhere else.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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Can you actually put some flesh on the bones of this claim that EVERYTHING changed for the working man for the better?  Clearly the working man didn't think do because after just one term and year of post election nervousness, Labour were out.

But if you look at the statistics, you'll see that despite losing the election in terms of seats they polled more votes than the Tories in 1950 and 1951. In fact IIRC in 1951 they actually polled more votes than they did in 1945.  Churchill despite claiming to have won the war (he came out of history a hero, but then he wrote the history) was very unpopular with the working man.  He turned the troops out on striking miners at Tonypandy, and tried to break the General Strike too.

The Tories were very aware of how popular Labour's policies were, that's why in order to stay in power in the fifties they changed nothing.  The policy had a nickname "Butskilism" a combination of R A Butler and Hugh Gaitskill's names.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Someone in the office, a rampant Redwood-esque Tory working in the NHS of all places, suggested that Corbyn may be getting the equivalent of "shy Tory" syndrome in the polls with many people not wanting to openly say they'll vote for him, much like in the last election some people just didn't want to be marked as voting Tory.  Makes sense to me anyway.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Someone in the office, a rampant Redwood-esque Tory working in the NHS of all places, suggested that Corbyn may be getting the equivalent of "shy Tory" syndrome in the polls with many people not wanting to openly say they'll vote for him, much like in the last election some people just didn't want to be marked as voting Tory.  Makes sense to me anyway.

Too early to say. Until he squares his views with his cabinet and we get a general idea of what New New Labour stands for, we don't know if he'll be just too polarising for the floating voters.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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:banghead: Why can't these people distinguish between a holding a strong personal view on a subject and representing the nation as a whole?


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Countryside Alliance calling someones views 'cranky'...pots! Kettle! Some is calling you!

Edited by Bedford Roughyed

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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His taste in women is as bad as his taste politics

You're getting quite desperate now aren't you?


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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You're getting quite desperate now aren't you?

 

Not as desperate as Corbyn... hahahahahahahaahahahahahaha

 

Thought I'd save him the effort....


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Surprising that while Corbyn was campaigning the others were going on holiday.  Sums it up really.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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But if you look at the statistics, you'll see that despite losing the election in terms of seats they polled more votes than the Tories in 1950 and 1951. In fact IIRC in 1951 they actually polled more votes than they did in 1945.  Churchill despite claiming to have won the war (he came out of history a hero, but then he wrote the history) was very unpopular with the working man.  He turned the troops out on striking miners at Tonypandy, and tried to break the General Strike too.

The Tories were very aware of how popular Labour's policies were, that's why in order to stay in power in the fifties they changed nothing.  The policy had a nickname "Butskilism" a combination of R A Butler and Hugh Gaitskill's names.

 

Labour won a landslide 145 seats in 1945.

 

It was under them that the Representation of The People Act & House of Commons Act were put through Parliament.

 

Labour won in 1950 with a majority of just 5, with around 750k votes more than the Tories.  That's quite a turnaround from the 1945 win and shows that all these so called reforms certainly were not what the people thought they would be.

 

The 1951 election was significant in that Labour did secure a greater number of votes, although these votes came from increased support in entrenched areas rather than a wider national appeal.  The beginnings of the 'safe seat'.

 

No doubt you'll be calling for proportional representation??

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Too early to say. Until he squares his views with his cabinet and we get a general idea of what New New Labour stands for, we don't know if he'll be just too polarising for the floating voters.

 

Corbyn is a 32 year backbencher.  No one had heard of him before he was thrown into the leadership contest to portray a false sense of inclusivity.  Only the hard left of the party backed him.  They are the only ones who he will appeal to.

 

He won't be Labour leader during a General Election campaign.

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I've spun off the lengthy debate on the NHS that had developed in this thread into a thread of its own.

 

As this thread appears to have run its course and is drifting off in various directions now, I'm locking it.

 

However, a new thread has been opened on the subject of Jeremy Corbyn and the impact of his leadership on the Labour Party for those who want to continue that debate.

 

Thank you.


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