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ckn

£12bn in welfare cuts

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You referred to 'child benefit'. Since I knew there had been no mention of child benefit in the budget, I didn't bother reading something that according to your link reference was irrelevant.

I don't remember there being an announcement on child tax credit being reduced, only that it wouldn't be available for more than two children. Where is the announcement that it was reduced? I must have missed it.

Tax credits have been left alone for unemployed people but there have been cuts for some people. They start being reduced for earnings above about £3800 rather than £6400 (the exact figure will be in one of the links) and they reduce at the rate of 48p per extra £1 earnt now, but used to reduce at 41p per £1

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As opposed to the pre New Labour days of no minimum wage you mean.

I'm too young to remember them, but a top tax rate of 40% combined with 20% rate starting at £6000 wasn't a very progressive system

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Don't be so obtuse. It is a cut in entitlement. And consequently a cut in cash. Families are going to be worse off than they would have been. That is a cut.

It isn't a cut in cash at all.  The family with four children now in receipt of child tax credit will continue to receive child tax credit at the current rate and for four children.  The two child limit applies only to those families with a third child on the way after April 2016 or 2017 (I can't remember off the top of my head which year because all the changes were staggered to different years). 

 

I'm not being obtuse.  I am being accurate.  Unlike yourself, who is simply repeating inaccurate rhetoric.

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Tax credits have been left alone for unemployed people but there have been cuts for some people. They start being reduced for earnings above about £3800 rather than £6400 (the exact figure will be in one of the links) and they reduce at the rate of 48p per extra £1 earnt now, but used to reduce at 41p per £1

That doesn't apply to child tax credits though.

 

Over 25s will also benefit from an increase in hourly rate of pay through the rise in minimum wage and from a rise in income tax threshold.  There appears to be debate as to whether that leaves those adults better or worse off.  Which one it is probably depends on which rhetoric you believe!

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That doesn't apply to child tax credits though.

Over 25s will also benefit from an increase in hourly rate of pay through the rise in minimum wage and from a rise in income tax threshold. There appears to be debate as to whether that leaves those adults better or worse off. Which one it is probably depends on which rhetoric you believe!

It depends on rate of inflation whether they'll be better or worse off I think

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That doesn't apply to child tax credits though.

 

Over 25s will also benefit from an increase in hourly rate of pay through the rise in minimum wage and from a rise in income tax threshold.  There appears to be debate as to whether that leaves those adults better or worse off.  Which one it is probably depends on which rhetoric you believe!

 

I have been playing around with this budget calculator. If you are a lone parent earning minimum wage (I rounded it to £13k pa) with one child you will be £1672.45 worse off next year. That is a huge drop in income for someone on such low earning to begin with. I on the other hand will be £189 pa better off, and we are pretty comfortable. I can't comprehend how anyone can think this is just, especially when you consider the changes to inheritance tax where there is absolutely no justification based on need for people being given a huge amount of money to get even more.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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..or rather, on their own rate of inflation, depending on their pattern and cost of spending, which varies widely from. Area to area.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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I have been playing around with this budget calculator. If you are a lone parent earning minimum wage (I rounded it to £13k pa) with one child you will be £1672.45 worse off next year. That is a huge drop in income for someone on such low earning to begin with. I on the other hand will be £189 pa better off, and we are pretty comfortable. I can't comprehend how anyone can think this is just, especially when you consider the changes to inheritance tax where there is absolutely no justification based on need for people being given a huge amount of money to get even more.

How many hours did you calculate for there?  Fulltime is minimum wage at £7.20 per hour for a 37.5 hour week gross is just over £14,000.  From next April the first £11,000 of that will be tax free although of course there will still be standard NI to pay (which, from personal experience, having been paid only £7.00 per hour in my last job, is not very much).  How much actual tax is taken from the £3,000 taxable income will depend upon tax code. If you calculated at 37.5 hours per week, as a fulltime worker (which looks about right on current minimum wage for a fulltime job), then based on the job alone and given that the rise in tax threshold provides £400 additional tax-free (but not NI free) wages, then at worst it looks like a loss of around £300 but then that's assuming the wage earner would have been given working tax credits, which I know I wasn't but then I don't have a child.

 

The child tax credit will be unchanged in amount as the child is already born.

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How many hours did you calculate for there?  Fulltime is minimum wage at £7.20 per hour for a 37.5 hour week gross is just over £14,000.  From next April the first £11,000 of that will be tax free although of course there will still be standard NI to pay (which, from personal experience, having been paid only £7.00 per hour in my last job, is not very much).  How much actual tax is taken from the £3,000 taxable income will depend upon tax code. If you calculated at 37.5 hours per week, as a fulltime worker (which looks about right on current minimum wage for a fulltime job), then based on the job alone and given that the rise in tax threshold provides £400 additional tax-free (but not NI free) wages, then at worst it looks like a loss of around £300 but then that's assuming the wage earner would have been given working tax credits, which I know I wasn't but then I don't have a child.

 

The child tax credit will be unchanged in amount as the child is already born.

 

Typo, I used the £14k you point to.

 

The rest, if you bother to look, is worked out by the Telegraph calculator. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Typo, I used the £14k you point to.

 

The rest, if you bother to look, is worked out by the Telegraph calculator. 

I don't care which calculator worked it out!  I don't think anyone working fulltime hours on the present minimum wage never mind the new one, regardless of which band, would be entitled to working tax credit unless they have children.  I certainly wasn't.  And as everyone knows, there is no change in child tax credit other than the number of children it will be available to and that change doesn't apply to your example, where the child is already born.  So the reduction, if indeed there is any, would be minimal.

Edited by Saintslass

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I don't care which calculator worked it out!  I don't think anyone working fulltime hours on the present minimum wage never mind the new one, regardless of which band, would be entitled to working tax credit unless they have children.  I certainly wasn't.  And as everyone knows, there is no change in child tax credit other than the number of children it will be available to and that change doesn't apply to your example, where the child is already born.  So the reduction, if indeed there is any, would be minimal.

 

If you refuse to acknowledge the evidence put before you what's the point? You just carry on shutting your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "na na na, I can't hear you".


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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The Telegraph calculator is flawed in its methodology. In terms of wages it is only calculating the difference in tax on the same salary in two different years. Anyone on NMW now working 37.5 hours gets a salary of £12,675 where as when the new rate starts they'd be getting £14,040 - an increase of £1,365. The Telegraph calculator doesn't take that increased wage into account, it assumes a static wage.

Furthermore, those who work but have children of pre-school age will be better off due to the additional 15 hours of free childcare each week that they will receive. I'm not sure what childcare costs per hour these days but I'd think those 15 hours have a significant value.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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If you refuse to acknowledge the evidence put before you what's the point? You just carry on shutting your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "na na na, I can't hear you".

Understandable, given the quality of your evidence.

You start with your conclusion, and then search for every scrap of nonsense you can find in order to support that.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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Understandable, given the quality of your evidence.

You start with your conclusion, and then search for every scrap of nonsense you can find in order to support that.

Whereas, Tory Ministers start with their policy, ask their Civil Servants to find the evidence to support it. Fall to. Fall to take on board all the representations of think tanks, policy developers, charities and practitioners left right and centre and do what their prejudice, dogma and outright self interest tells them to.

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How many hours did you calculate for there?  Fulltime is minimum wage at £7.20 per hour for a 37.5 hour week gross is just over £14,000.  From next April the first £11,000 of that will be tax free although of course there will still be standard NI to pay (which, from personal experience, having been paid only £7.00 per hour in my last job, is not very much).  How much actual tax is taken from the £3,000 taxable income will depend upon tax code. If you calculated at 37.5 hours per week, as a fulltime worker (which looks about right on current minimum wage for a fulltime job), then based on the job alone and given that the rise in tax threshold provides £400 additional tax-free (but not NI free) wages, then at worst it looks like a loss of around £300 but then that's assuming the wage earner would have been given working tax credits, which I know I wasn't but then I don't have a child.

 

The child tax credit will be unchanged in amount as the child is already born.

The threshold for working tax credits if you work at least 30 hours a week and have no children or disability is £12,615.12. This is pre tax income and works out at just under 37.5 hours at minimum wage. It is getting scrapped with the changes in eligibility and the minimum wage rise.

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Ive run out of likes for derwent and saintlass

not sure how to do laughs /smilies at Weary/Griff and of course Trojan

worst case scenario i've heard is it will cost the bone idle is 10 cigs/or a pint and a half a week.

Stop knocking out kids that You cant pay for

This country should not be a charity,if we were'nt the Calais situation would not be happening

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Pub kicked out early?


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Ive run out of likes for derwent and saintlass

not sure how to do laughs /smilies at Weary/Griff and of course Trojan

worst case scenario i've heard is it will cost the bone idle is 10 cigs/or a pint and a half a week.

Stop knocking out kids that You cant pay for

This country should not be a charity,if we were'nt the Calais situation would not be happening

You must be a deeply unhappy person to have such hatred for the most vulnerable of your fellow human beings.

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Good to see some people are fighting back and putting human rights law to good use as well:

Families of disabled kids 'pushed into poverty' because they're 'TOO ILL' celebrate after beating heartless Tories in court

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Good to see some people are fighting back and putting human rights law to good use as well: Families of disabled kids 'pushed into poverty' because they're 'TOO ILL' celebrate after beating heartless Tories in court

That article is bizarre in the sense that it is apparently a victory over heartless Tories, yet itself states that the rule has been in place for the last 20 years. I'm pretty sure that these "heartless Tories" weren't in power for most of those 20 years. Or is it only a heartless rule when there's a Tory government ? What was it when it was in place under a Labour government from 1997 to 2010 ?


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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You must be a deeply unhappy person to have such hatred for the most vulnerable of your fellow human beings.

Could'nt be happier Labour are dead and buried to the electorate for years and years to come and if they are that stupid to vote in Corbyn(the Communist) decades in the duldrems awaits.I do hope they do,ive had my 3 quids worth :shout:

I dont hate anyone especially the geniunely needy they should be helped no doubt,what i am against is the bone idle social security scroungers who play the system,have no intention of looking nevermind getting work and believe the state should look after them.

I know loads of these in my area who constantly keep knocking out kids willy nilly which the taxpayer has to support.

As for the guys that liked your post well the wiganer what do you expect that town would return a labour MP if Saddam Hussein stood as their candidate,a bit like St.Helens were they just elected a northern irishman who'd never been to the town previously and an ex Council leader(67 years old) who had alledgedly dodgy dealings whilst in office and is currently facing charges of assault on a woman at the scottish referendum.

Craig i'm surprised at as i thought he was quite smart,but i was mistaken.

And finally lefty Rhino well what can you say about someone who follows looney left minority parties,he's probably one of the ones i made reference to earlier.Aint got owt but wants a share of what someone else has worked hard for.

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That article is bizarre in the sense that it is apparently a victory over heartless Tories, yet itself states that the rule has been in place for the last 20 years. I'm pretty sure that these "heartless Tories" weren't in power for most of those 20 years. Or is it only a heartless rule when there's a Tory government ? What was it when it was in place under a Labour government from 1997 to 2010 ?

Nice one Derwent

Doubt you'll get a response though

I can just imagine the teeth grinding and headbanging when they read your post

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