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Leigh to announce new signing 8pm Monday

sweaty craiq

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LeeF

LeeF

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Trust me with Leigh in SL Salford are not a threat to Leigh at academy level, Wigan and wire will pick off the best and we will take the next level instead of Salford with a bit of luck we may also take a few first choice

It's not 1st April is it?

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LeeF

LeeF

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Beaumont announced the deal was off due to medical reasons, after it was tweeted delayed to next weeks shirt launch. I expect the same slowing down lying on and cheap shots from Sheffield also

Leigh - the home of cheap shots and ill discipline in 2015 - calling Sheffield!!!

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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Trust me with Leigh in SL Salford are not a threat to Leigh at academy level, Wigan and wire will pick off the best and we will take the next level instead of Salford with a bit of luck we may also take a few first choice

 

Come on Craig, Leigh JARL has no real record of bringing through any SL quality Leigh juniors in recent years to first team squad success.........

 

"Picking off the best" - you don't even produce any "best"

 

"take a few first choice" your spinning it to try to make out LJARL produce first choice junior talent in numbers.

 

I'll ask an interesting question - name any Warrington born/raised lads who have played for England/GB in the past decade?

 

"Played for England" is an obvious qualification that nicely bars young lads who are finally coming through at Wire from your stat.

 

Aren't Currie, Dwyer, Laithwaite and Philbin Warrington lads now coming through into the Wolves first team squad?

 

Don't answer that as your too dizzy from all the spinning......

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sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq

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Come on Craig, Leigh JARL has no real record of bringing through any SL quality Leigh juniors in recent years to first team squad success.........

 

"Picking off the best" - you don't even produce any "best"

 

"take a few first choice" your spinning it to try to make out LJARL produce first choice junior talent in numbers.

 

 

"Played for England" is an obvious qualification that nicely bars young lads who are finally coming through at Wire from your stat.

 

Aren't Currie, Dwyer, Laithwaite and Philbin Warrington lads now coming through into the Wolves first team squad?

 

Don't answer that as your too dizzy from all the spinning......

Currie is a Golborne lad, who was on Wigans books initially

You will note I have stated Jnr RL in Leigh to SL is very poor - Dom Manfredi is an out and out Leyther. as is Scott Moore. There seems to be a good bunch of 14/15's coming through at present being snapped up by the usual suspects

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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You will note I have stated Jnr RL in Leigh to SL is very poor - Dom Manfredi is an out and out Leyther. as is Scott Moore. There seems to be a good bunch of 14/15's coming through at present being snapped up by the usual suspects

 

Yes I've noted both your honesty and your spin.

 

I have Scott Moore down as Saints born and debuting in 2004 for Saints. Manfredi comes through a decade later. Does Leigh turn out one SL player every ten years? 

 

And if they do and these players choose St.Helens and Wigan to play at what on earth is the point of having an academy at Leigh. Or at Wakefield.

 

Not having a go at you or your club but it's important that people understand the massive home grown quality player shortage which is the reason for the massive number of imports, Hull sharing an academy and the reserve league, a desperate attempt to ensure late developers don't slip the net.

 

Leigh's SL future lies in a low costs base as you say, but also a smart recruitment policy identifying the best of the players that aren't lining up in the top super eight. 

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Ackroman

Ackroman

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Currie is a Golborne lad, who was on Wigans books initially

You will note I have stated Jnr RL in Leigh to SL is very poor - Dom Manfredi is an out and out Leyther. as is Scott Moore. There seems to be a good bunch of 14/15's coming through at present being snapped up by the usual suspects

There is no story here so why do you entertain it?

 

Only "you know who" can use the position of the lunar sky and the latitude and longitude of the particular hospital a player was born in, as a reason to deride a particular clubs ambitions.

 

The biggest story regarding player movement in RL is not a championship problem. It's a SL problem. Mainly to the NRL which I embrace for international reasons.

 

And of course back from RU which gives the opposition a good kick in the balls.

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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There is no story here so why do you entertain it?

 

The biggest story regarding player movement in RL is not a championship problem. It's a SL problem. Mainly to the NRL which I embrace for international reasons.

 

 

He entertains it because he chooses to, and it is of course none of your business that he does. The irony is you entertain it too.

 

The lack of quality young players is a problem for both the championship and super league, of course it is, it's a problem at all levels.

 

Nobody is "deriding" championship clubs. Don't be so daft.

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Derwent

Derwent

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Where players were born etc has no relevance at all. Take Kallum Watkins as an example, born and raised in Salford but played most of his junior RL for Latchford Albion in Warrington. So is he a product of Salford or a product of Warrington under Parky's definitions ?

 

Or what about James Graham ? His parents moved to Merseyside from West Cumbria a month before he was born. If they had waited until afterwards would he qualify as a Cumbrian SL product ?

 

Also, just like in the pro game, the best amateur junior players in a region tend to be poached by or gravitate towards the most successful clubs therefore it can be misleading.

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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Where players were born etc has no relevance at all. 

 

Of course it has.

 

It's a good indicator of which areas produce the most English players.

 

The largest numbers of local born players produced by their local amateur clubs who then went on to be Superleague first team squad  pro's last I counted were in places like Wigan (25) Calder (24) Leeds (17) and Hull (15).

 

Clubs like Leeds and Wigan will pull them in from Manchester (Watkins) and Leigh (Manfredi) so not only do they obtain quality juniors locally they take them from other areas giving the smaller clubs no chance of developing players for their own ambitions.

 

There's no exact science but if you have a better indicator of where the junior game is strong or not and how it then translates into delivering players to the Pro game then be my guest. Show me your figures and reasoning.

 

I had 4 lads in SL down from West Cumbria. You couldn't raise a seven a side pro team up there, and it's not having a go it's reflecting that West Cumbria isn't a "hot bed" of RL.

 

Not many places are yet there's 12 clubs to find players for and more wanted to launch SL ambitions. This is the story not James Graham

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Derwent

Derwent

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I had 4 lads in SL down from West Cumbria. You couldn't raise a seven a side pro team up there, and it's not having a go it's reflecting that West Cumbria isn't a "hot bed" of RL.

 

 

 

You are so focused on SL that you miss the bigger picture.

 

In the case of West Cumbria, as an example, the question shouldn't simply be why there are only a handful of SL players from the area. That is a bit myopic.

 

The real question you should be asking is why does West Cumbria produce so many junior amateur internationals who then don't make the transition into the pro game ? Its not that the area doesn't produce raw materials its that those raw materials aren't being developed into a finished product.

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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You are so focused on SL that you miss the bigger picture.

 

In the case of West Cumbria, as an example, the question shouldn't simply be why there are only a handful of SL players from the area. That is a bit myopic.

 

The real question you should be asking is why does West Cumbria produce so many junior amateur internationals who then don't make the transition into the pro game ? Its not that the area doesn't produce raw materials its that those raw materials aren't being developed into a finished product.

 

It's not about me.

 

The RFL recognised the need to have academies outside SL areas and they formed them to accommodate lads who didn't want to travel a long way to join academies in which only a small number of players ever make it.

 

I've been through plenty of listings of "junior internationals" to see how many of that elite group make it and it's not that many whether they are from  West Cumbria or from West Yorkshire. 

 

Could the myopia be your problem as Cumbria like the North east, London or Wales are outposts and the reality is Yorkshire and Lancashire is where the vast majority of the raw material is produced.

 

Could it be you have forgotten the study on the number of clubs in each area and the fact is in West Cumbria they had so few teams they were doubling up the age groups to try to have enough teams to make up  leagues.

 

So where is the basis of your argument about the production of "raw materials" in Cumbria??

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LeeF

LeeF

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Of course it has.

 

It's a good indicator of which areas produce the most English players.

 

The largest numbers of local born players produced by their local amateur clubs who then went on to be Superleague first team squad  pro's last I counted were in places like Wigan (25) Calder (24) Leeds (17) and Hull (15).

 

Clubs like Leeds and Wigan will pull them in from Manchester (Watkins) and Leigh (Manfredi) so not only do they obtain quality juniors locally they take them from other areas giving the smaller clubs no chance of developing players for their own ambitions.

 

There's no exact science but if you have a better indicator of where the junior game is strong or not and how it then translates into delivering players to the Pro game then be my guest. Show me your figures and reasoning.

 

I had 4 lads in SL down from West Cumbria. You couldn't raise a seven a side pro team up there, and it's not having a go it's reflecting that West Cumbria isn't a "hot bed" of RL.

 

Not many places are yet there's 12 clubs to find players for and more wanted to launch SL ambitions. This is the story not James Graham

Out of interest who are your 4. I get 6 Cumbrians having played in SL last year off the top of my head which still isn't enough

Where someone was born isn't the key in this day and age but where someone was brought up / played their junior rugby

Derwent is correct about asking why Cumbrian juniors make the international squads but don't make it to SL

Is it the lack of motivation?

Is it the lack of opportunities?

Is it the lack of a local SL club?

A significant number of juniors have been through academies at Wigan, Warrington, Saints, Salford, Hudds, Leeds, Cas & Widnes over recent years and there are some very good players in the academies at the moment. Hopefully they will kick on

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LeeF

LeeF

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Read it again Brains.

Another fantastic post there Craig

2016 is going to be a great season. I can just tell

So how are you going to overtake Salford? They will outbid you for the juniors or do you think you can outdo them?

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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1. Out of interest who are your 4. I get 6 Cumbrians having played in SL last year off the top of my head which still isn't enough

2. Where someone was born isn't the key in this day and age but where someone was brought up / played their junior rugby

3. Derwent is correct about asking why Cumbrian juniors make the international squads but don't make it to SL

 

1. Hi Lee, I'll look it up, give me your six? You may be counting any cumbrian who has played one SL game, if so that isn't the way I counted the numbers.

 

2. It's not easy to get full run downs on players origins, but you can often find birthplace or you can find out which junior club they signed from or both. So as I said to Derwent it's not an exact science. I don't have to balance the figures to a penny like he does.

 

Across 200 players a few may be out, but that doesn't change the conclusions that top SL clubs cannot find enough young english players to stock their player rosters so the bigger clubs take the smaller clubs best locals.For the lower SL clubs an academy then becomes a pretty pointless thing. And on topic that's the point when people keep going on about a Leigh academy being a great way to strengthen their position if they get promoted.

 

3. Many juniors make the international squads and always have done, and many of those do not make regular Superleague first team players. If this phenomenon is supposedly restricted to Cumbrians or is predominantly cumbrians then please let's have some research on this.

 

Academy internationals will come and go as they hit the age range then soon leave it so there may be a heck of a lot of them over say 10 years, as I say can Derwent or you show me a disproportionate number of Cumbrians not making it ??

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