English Votes for English Laws

[Saint Toppy]

Following hot on the heels of the new English anthem, just noticed that were now using the english votes for english laws rules in Parliament. When did this one come into effect ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35295404

 

Like the anthem, another one thats long overdue !

 

No surprise the SNP are whinging already. Seems its alright for them to vote on Scottish only matters in Holyrood but they still want to poke their noses into England only matters.

[Griff9of13]

A sop to appease the Little Englanders and not really necessary:

 

"According to the Commons library, almost all the legislation since 2001 has been passed with the support of a majority of English MPs as well as a majority in the Commons as a whole. Researchers counted 3,800 divisions. Less than 1% would have had a different outcome without Scottish votes." 

 

from: The Guardian view on English votes for English laws: the problem of Evel

[Saint Toppy]

A sop to appease the Little Englanders and not really necessary:

 

"According to the Commons library, almost all the legislation since 2001 has been passed with the support of a majority of English MPs as well as a majority in the Commons as a whole. Researchers counted 3,800 divisions. Less than 1% would have had a different outcome without Scottish votes." 

 

from: The Guardian view on English votes for English laws: the problem of Evel

Difference is up to 2015 most Scottish MP's were members of National parties based and controlled from England and they more often than not toed the party line. Now virtually all Scottish MP's are controlled by a Scottish party with no interest in doing whats right for the people of England. They can vote en-block to try and block anything they want and will use it as leverage to try and get more for themselves.

[Phil]

Difference is up to 2015 most Scottish MP's were members of National parties based and controlled from England and they more often than not toed the party line. Now virtually all Scottish MP's are controlled by a Scottish party with no interest in doing whats right for the people of England. They can vote en-block to try and block anything they want and will use it as leverage to try and get more for themselves.

Bit like the tories and the city you mean?

[Martyn Sadler]

If we are going to have English votes for English laws we should have an English parliament along the lines of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland bodies.

 

If we aren't going to do that, I don't believe we can restrict the powers of some MPs simply because they come from outside England.

 

Any MP, no matter where he or she represents, should be able to vote on any issue that comes before Parliament.

[Saintslass]

If we are going to have English votes for English laws we should have an English parliament along the lines of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland bodies.

 

If we aren't going to do that, I don't believe we can restrict the powers of some MPs simply because they come from outside England.

 

Any MP, no matter where he or she represents, should be able to vote on any issue that comes before Parliament.

I think it would be a waste of taxpayers money to create a parliament within a parliament as you are suggesting, that is if it was properly practical anyway which I'm not convinced it would be.  Also, as the predominant country in what remains of the United Kingdom I think it is a positive thing that middle ground has been found and I hope this compromise works.

 

As for the SNP: they are a right bunch of hypocrites.  They aren't worth listening to over this matter given their constant demands for more devolution.  Little Scotlanders.

[Saint Toppy]

 

If we aren't going to do that, I don't believe we can restrict the powers of some MPs simply because they come from outside England.

 

Any MP, no matter where he or she represents, should be able to vote on any issue that comes before Parliament.

Why not. Parliament in Westminster is a National institution and rightly should vote on national issues that affect the whole country. When the likes of the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembley were created it then gave the people of those regions the right to make decisions away from Westminster that only concerned their regions.

So why shouldn't areas of legislation that only affect the region of England only be decided by people elected to that region ?

 

Health & education in Scotland are largely controlled & voted on by elected people in Scotland via their own parliament, so why should a Scottish MP have the right to vote on matters concerning health & education in England ?

The Scots cant have it both ways, control of their own matters and still maintain some control over English only matters.

 

The SNP are whinging their MP's are being sidelined by this English votes rule but its they who started all this by demanding their own controls for Scotland free from English interference. All this new rule does is bring some parity with Scotland and Wales.

[Martyn Sadler]

Why not. Parliament in Westminster is a National institution and rightly should vote on national issues that affect the whole country. When the likes of the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembley were created it then gave the people of those regions the right to make decisions away from Westminster that only concerned their regions.

So why shouldn't areas of legislation that only affect the region of England only be decided by people elected to that region ?

 

Health & education in Scotland are largely controlled & voted on by elected people in Scotland via their own parliament, so why should a Scottish MP have the right to vote on matters concerning health & education in England ?

The Scots cant have it both ways, control of their own matters and still maintain some control over English only matters.

 

The SNP are whinging their MP's are being sidelined by this English votes rule but its they who started all this by demanding their own controls for Scotland free from English interference. All this new rule does is bring some parity with Scotland and Wales.

 

The problem is caused by the skewed approach to devolution and it can only be put right by the creation of an English assembly that is equivalent to those for the other parts of the UK.

 

There are far too many contradictions to maintain the status quo. If the Tories didn't have an absolute majority we would be seeing those contradictions played out every day, but at least there is now a breathing space to do something about it.

 

Incidentally, the Palace of Westminster is falling down and will soon have to be vacated for essential structural repairs to take place.

 

It's a great opportunity for a new home for an English Parliament to be built.

[ckn]

Taking on from Martyn's two post above, with which I fully agree, the EVEL laws allow a Tory government with a low majority, as at present, to ride over a rebellion from within their own ranks of up to nearly 50 MPs and still win given their MPs are virtually all English based ones.

On the other side, if they lost in 2020 beyond anything other than a 1997 style drubbing then there's a real chance they'll have an English majority.

Create an English Parliament with identical powers to Scotland and have done with it. Concentrate the UK Parliament on the macro UK issues. Don't allow the subordinate Parliaments the power to raise debt but allow them to raise or lower taxes from the UK set figure and keep/fund the consequences.

[Saint Toppy]

The problem is caused by the skewed approach to devolution and it can only be put right by the creation of an English assembly that is equivalent to those for the other parts of the UK.

 

There are far too many contradictions to maintain the status quo. If the Tories didn't have an absolute majority we would be seeing those contradictions played out every day, but at least there is now a breathing space to do something about it.

 

Incidentally, the Palace of Westminster is falling down and will soon have to be vacated for essential structural repairs to take place.

 

It's a great opportunity for a new home for an English Parliament to be built.

The creation of an English parliament would be my preference but until the North sea oil runs out no government will want to completely cast the Scots aside. Once the oil's gone they wont have that much left to contribute to the national economy so I can well forsee them going their separate ways then, though the Scots may not want it then when they have to support themselves without the oil income. They'll have to lower the expenditure per head to something akin to the rest of the country to avoid getting into massive debt.

[shrek]

I think it would be a waste of taxpayers money to create a parliament within a parliament as you are suggesting, that is if it was properly practical anyway which I'm not convinced it would be.  Also, as the predominant country in what remains of the United Kingdom I think it is a positive thing that middle ground has been found and I hope this compromise works.

 

As for the SNP: they are a right bunch of hypocrites.  They aren't worth listening to over this matter given their constant demands for more devolution.  Little Scotlanders.

You could scrap the Lords and have the UK Parliment sitting as the upper house, would be about cost neutral!

 

The current method seems half arsed, ill thought out and akin to burying ones head in the sand hoping the problem will go away!

[Griff9of13]

You could scrap the Lords and have the UK Parliment sitting as the upper house, would be about cost neutral!

The current method seems half arsed, ill thought out and akin to burying ones head in the sand hoping the problem will go away!

The current Tory government summed up neatly in a single sentence.

[Wolford6]

The House of Lords is just a social club for the rich and smug.

[gingerjon]

The House of Lords is just a social club for the rich and smug.

 

Do Scottish Lords get to vote on English matters?

[WearyRhino]

Do Scottish Lords get to vote on English matters?

 

Interesting point. However, despite most taking on names associating them with 'places', I guess they are not there as representatives of any particular geographical constituency. There are no SNP Lords, but there are 2 Plaid Cymru Lords.

[ckn]

Interesting point. However, despite most taking on names associating them with 'places', I guess they are not there as representatives of any particular geographical constituency. There are no SNP Lords, but there are 2 Plaid Cymru Lords.

Even without all the other good reasons to get rid of the Lords, this is a great example of why the Lords is not a credible democratic institution.  The party with about 10% of the MPs has no Lords, the Lib Dems with 8 MPs has well over 100.

[WearyRhino]

Even without all the other good reasons to get rid of the Lords, this is a great example of why the Lords is not a credible democratic institution.  The party with about 10% of the MPs has no Lords, the Lib Dems with 8 MPs has well over 100.

 

To be fair, the SNP choose to have no Lords.