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Bedford Roughyed

The great EU Referendum poll (new question in poll!)

EU Referendum  

149 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    • Remain a member of the European Union
      72
    • Leave the European Union
      66
    • Don't know?
      11
  2. 2. With two weeks to go, has your vote changed?

    • Yes, I was remain, now leave
      0
    • Yes, I was leave, now remain
      1
    • Yes, I was don't know, now leave
      1
    • Yes, I was don't know, now remain
      3
    • No, but I'm holding on reluctantly to leave
      0
    • No, but I'm holding on reluctantly to stay
      5
    • No, my intention is the same
      18


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I think "Leave, take control" is quite a punchy slogan and will appeal to many.   "Take a jump into the dark" would be nearer the mark of course.  Or lose all your employment protection say.  Because that's the truth.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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All pals together now, what garbage,its 10 times worse than last years general election.A massive win for leave. The people the Remain are putting up are universally loathed.And this ensures the outers will most certainly turn out. 

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With such a carefully presented and well researched opinion, how can it fail?


Four legs good - two legs bad

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All pals together now, what garbage,its 10 times worse than last years general election.A massive win for leave. The people the Remain are putting up are universally loathed.And this ensures the outers will most certainly turn out. 

I give you Nigel Farage, IDS, George Galloway, Gove and other malcontents as examples of those who are probably much further up the "universally loathed" scale than virtually any on the Remain side.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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$deity save us...   Just listening to Boris rambling on today following Gove.  Gove sounded just a bit weird and uncomfortable but Boris is just waffling on in a way that'd shame Donald Trump.  Lies, damned lies and Boris Johnson.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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This may the first and last time I ever say this: listening to David Cameron on Radio2 and he came across very well with clear and robust points.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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It's OK to say that because the issue is about the EU not the other aspects of policy you disagree with.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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$deity save us...   Just listening to Boris rambling on today following Gove.  Gove sounded just a bit weird and uncomfortable but Boris is just waffling on in a way that'd shame Donald Trump.  Lies, damned lies and Boris Johnson.

 

That's modern politics for you.

 

You don't have to fool all of the people all of the time, you just have to fool enough of them.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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The migration issue is obviously key to the referendum.  As Gove repeated at the weekend that it should be cut to 10's of thousands.  Yet at the same time vote.leave are advocating an increase in non EU migration, see their save our curry campaign.

 

In essence they are telling white British 'we will cut all immigration' and telling asian voters 'we can let more people like you in, when we get rid of the EU migration'.

 

They could cut migration in half already,  but they don't because its needed economically, yet they won't say this.  They trot out the line of getting immigration into the 10's of thousands, yet the immigration they do control is already above that.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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CkRX-mtWkAAwbQj.jpg


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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I wonder what Vote.Leave are trying to say with this map?

 

CkRSTNVW0AA7DBI.jpg


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Statement from the IFS -

 

CkRx00fUUAA71LV.jpg


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Vote.Leave respond to the IFS responding to Gove -

 

CkR80aVXEAQMATc.jpg


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Vote.Leave respond to the IFS responding to Gove -

 

CkR80aVXEAQMATc.jpg

 

 

Don't they have any new lies to feed us? They've been told numerous times this is untrue, yet they keep repeating it.


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

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Those running vote leave don't give a flying f*** for the NHS.  They want to either privatise it, make people pay for it at the point of use, scrap it entirely, or turn it into an insurance scheme.  If there are any dividends from leaving (which I very much doubt) they'll be spent on tax cuts for the better of because that's what Tories do.   But I very much doubt that there'll be any dividends.  Whatever the wrongs and rights, pluses and minuses of Brexit.  If we leave they will punish us if only as a lesson to anyone else considering doing the same.  Plus there'll be trouble in Scotland and trouble in Northern Ireland.  If we leave it will be an unmitigated disaster for our country.  I can't seriously believe that anyone in their right mind with left of centre views could possibly trust the likes of IDS, Gove, Johnson and Grayling to do right by them.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bca54ac2-2bcd-11e6-a18d-a96ab29e3c95.html#axzz4AoQaC9FQ

 

 

For the Leave campaign, immigration from Europe is a gift because it perfectly captures three of the themes that the “Outers” most like to stress: loss of sovereignty, the faulty judgment of elites and the difficulty of achieving meaningful reform of the EU.

 

Hardcore Eurosceptics in the Conservative party have been complaining about loss of sovereignty for decades. But the things that enraged them, such as the EU’s working time directive, are not the sorts of issues that normal people lose sleep over. 

 

By contrast, immigration provides a meaningful practical example of what “loss of sovereignty” actually entails. After the arrival of more than 1m migrants from eastern Europe over the past decade, some British voters wanted to call a halt.

 

 
 

Of course, it is also true that there are elements of dishonesty and xenophobia in the way the Leave campaign has used immigration. The Leavers have sometimes deliberately blurred the distinction between legal immigrants from the EU and asylum seekers fleeing the Middle East — a powerful tactic, given the current refugee crisis in Europe. Nigel Farage, one of the most prominent Leave campaigners, has even evoked sexual assaults by migrants in Germany as a reason to quit the EU. 

 

At the same time, the Leave campaign has appealed to UK voters with roots outside Europe — by suggesting that if Britain leaves the EU it could adopt an immigration policy that allows in more migrants from India and Pakistan. That idea is unlikely to delight the Leavers’ core vote in the white working class.

 

 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Those running vote leave don't give a flying f*** for the NHS.  They want to either privatise it, make people pay for it at the point of use, scrap it entirely, or turn it into an insurance scheme.  If there are any dividends from leaving (which I very much doubt) they'll be spent on tax cuts for the better of because that's what Tories do.   But I very much doubt that there'll be any dividends.  Whatever the wrongs and rights, pluses and minuses of Brexit.  If we leave they will punish us if only as a lesson to anyone else considering doing the same.  Plus there'll be trouble in Scotland and trouble in Northern Ireland.  If we leave it will be an unmitigated disaster for our country.  I can't seriously believe that anyone in their right mind with left of centre views could possibly trust the likes of IDS, Gove, Johnson and Grayling to do right by them.

Even those on the right of the Tory wings should be really suspicious of leaving the EU.  The serious money men of the investment banks and service industries are nervous and a few have already spoken out about them moving jobs out of the UK because it wouldn't make sense for them to be based here, even if it's only a 0.5% tariff increase.  The right wing economic case for leaving is abysmal: Leaving the EU will cost cost companies lots of money in trade tariffs, cost shareholders their profits, strip companies of cheap labour sources, strip the entire supply chain of all levels of easy-to-obtain skilled workers from unskilled to top end, strip some very wealthy people the benefits of being able to move around the tax havens of the EU at will.  Some industries will be praying (preying?) for exit as it'll make asset stripping the UK's state sector much easier.

 

I may be being seriously one-eyed here but I cannot see any rational reason for leaving the EU.  None at all.  And for all the major parties, Kippers excepted, to have their official policies being Remain surely should give a hint to there being no rational political capital in leaving the EU.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Even those on the right of the Tory wings should be really suspicious of leaving the EU.  The serious money men of the investment banks and service industries are nervous and a few have already spoken out about them moving jobs out of the UK because it wouldn't make sense for them to be based here, even if it's only a 0.5% tariff increase.  The right wing economic case for leaving is abysmal: Leaving the EU will cost cost companies lots of money in trade tariffs, cost shareholders their profits, strip companies of cheap labour sources, strip the entire supply chain of all levels of easy-to-obtain skilled workers from unskilled to top end, strip some very wealthy people the benefits of being able to move around the tax havens of the EU at will.  Some industries will be praying (preying?) for exit as it'll make asset stripping the UK's state sector much easier.

 

I may be being seriously one-eyed here but I cannot see any rational reason for leaving the EU.  None at all.  And for all the major parties, Kippers excepted, to have their official policies being Remain surely should give a hint to there being no rational political capital in leaving the EU.

Last year business (well my business anyway) was if not exactly booming, it was doing ok. Since the election there has been a very noticeable slow-down.  I struggled at first to find a reason, but of course, it's the referendum.  And it's been progressively worsening. God knows what'll happen if the vote is to leave.  Total collapse from what I can see.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Cameron likens Brexit to putting 'bomb under economy'

And why are we in danger of that Dave? If you hadn't called this stupid referendum in the first place our economy wouldn't be in such danger in the first place. IMO he'll have an awful lot to answer for on June 24th should we vote to leave, the blame will lie 100% with him.

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Cameron likens Brexit to putting 'bomb under economy'

And why are we in danger of that Dave? If you hadn't called this stupid referendum in the first place our economy wouldn't be in such danger in the first place. IMO he'll have an awful lot to answer for on June 24th should we vote to leave, the blame will lie 100% with him.

This is my biggest beef with Cameron - he put the economy on the line in an attempt to secure party unity. He's saying what a terrible disaster it would be (true, of course as anyone with the most basic economic literacy can see); but it was Cameron who put us in that ridiculously risky position as a matter of political expediency.

 

He had every chance to go down as a middle of the road, satisfactorily flexible PM who for 5 years smartly used the Lib Dems as cover from the nutter wing of his party. Lose this referendum and all he'll ever be remembered for will be Britain's economic suicide and a catastrophic loss of sovereignty.

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This is my biggest beef with Cameron - he put the economy on the line in an attempt to secure party unity. He's saying what a terrible disaster it would be (true, of course as anyone with the most basic economic literacy can see); but it was Cameron who put us in that ridiculously risky position as a matter of political expediency.

 

He had every chance to go down as a middle of the road, satisfactorily flexible PM who for 5 years smartly used the Lib Dems as cover from the nutter wing of his party. Lose this referendum and all he'll ever be remembered for will be Britain's economic suicide and a catastrophic loss of sovereignty.

I think he gambled on the polls being right last year, and there'd be another hung parliament to get him off the hook. It was reported at the time that Osborne was sending text after text to Clegg urging another coalition  But because of the Tories' scare tactics it didn't work out like that,  So we have the referendum.  Whatever the outcome IMO Cameron is finished.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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If we leave the EU the current visa/immigration rules would apply to nurses from the EU. We don't recruit many from outside the EU anymore because those rules don't allow it.

Therefore to maintain the number of nurses we need the first act of your plan will be to lower the immigration rules.

The rules on non EU immigration are so strict because of the rate of EU immigration. With net immigration of a million every three years we can't really increase it without becoming overpopulated. I'd rather take the better Europeans and the better non Europeans as immigrants rather than the better Europeans and the less skilled Europeans

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