Toronto Wolfpack names 18 finalists from “Last Tackle” tryout

[Evil Homer]

Maybe it's because I'm an old sod, but I thought that there was nothing wrong with two subs, it at least allowed the more skillful smaller players the opportunity to stamp their influence on the game the longer it went on instead of having to compete against the fresh players that are being introduced throughout the game.

Multiple subs has in my opinion been one of the main reasons that a lot of skill has-been taken out of the game.

The skill levels in the sport are higher than they have ever been before. Modern players are far more skillful than their counterparts of yesteryear.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

The skill levels in the sport are higher than they have ever been before. Modern players are far more skillful than their counterparts of yesteryear.

 

Sorry cant agree with that.  They might be stronger and faster but the footwork and handling clearly is not what it was.

[Evil Homer]

Sorry cant agree with that.  They might be stronger and faster but the footwork and handling clearly is not what it was.

Yeah, it is. You put players from even 15-20 years ago into the modern sport and they would be badly exposed, it would be like watching amateurs. Not saying the players themselves are necessarily more or less naturally skillful, but the level of skill is higher across the board due to the pace of the sport.

 

It's like F1, people say that the newer F1 drivers are less skillful than the old drivers but it's not true at all, if anything the modern drivers are far more skillful but it's so fast and precise, they aren't doing outrageous overtakes and maneuvers etc so people assume that it's just a monotonous and robotic task.

[DoubleD]

Players who have progressed through the most rigorous athletic collegiate system and the most difficult professional sporting league in the world to crack are likely to be better athletes than local amateur RL players, with due respect. There are probably less than 1,000 RL players in North America and literally millions trying to make it to the NFL. Guys who come from a relatively low standard of football (low division walk-on college programs) tend to walk into the US national RL team within a year.

I believe Corey Knox also had a tryout with WWE last year, which again requires a ridiculously high standard of athleticism.

I'm pretty sure all the 18 will be considered 'athletes' yet at the end of the day, that's only a small part of what's required to be a good rugby player

[GaryO]

The skill levels in the sport are higher than they have ever been before. Modern players are far more skillful than their counterparts of yesteryear.

All very subjective Homer, in post #28 you even relate it to being as recent as 15-20 years ago when we have witnessed the best players that in your opinion have ever graced and played the game, that will encompass you precisely with the Super League era, you are either to young to make a comparison or in my opinion very easily pleased with some of today's players.

[Bob8]

All very subjective Homer, in post #28 you even relate it to being as recent as 15-20 years ago when we have witnessed the best players that in your opinion have ever graced and played the game, that will encompass you precisely with the Super League era, you are either to young to make a comparison or in my opinion very easily pleased with some of today's players.

I speak for everyone when I say the finest players the world has ever seen are the ones that played when I was young.

[GaryO]

I speak for everyone when I say the finest players the world has ever seen are the ones that played when I was young.

I went to my first game in '59 Bob, and I could pick players spanning all of those era's that had a great impression on me, even players of today could make my list of the greats I have seen, not just the players from my youth, and I would take on board the wisdom of those who relayed stories of the players of yesteryear those being the one's I never saw playing, without just dismissing them outright.

But I get the point you are making.

[longboard]

I speak for everyone when I say the finest players the world has ever seen are the ones that played when I was young.

 

Perhaps Bob, but there is little film coverage of the game from the 1930s for us to check out your assertion.

[Futtocks]

Perhaps Bob, but there is little film coverage of the game from the 1930s for us to check out your assertion.

 

[Evil Homer]

All very subjective Homer, in post #28 you even relate it to being as recent as 15-20 years ago when we have witnessed the best players that in your opinion have ever graced and played the game, that will encompass you precisely with the Super League era, you are either to young to make a comparison or in my opinion very easily pleased with some of today's players.

 

I used that timeframe because that represents the 'modern game'. The sport before that was not fully professional and barely resembled what happens today (the same in all sports BTW).

 

The quality of players doesn't change over time, there might be a couple of once-in-a-lifetime freaks that pop up every so often but overall the talent pool remains pretty similar. The players play differently now because the sport is different and the game and skills levels have evolved. In 10-15 years I imagine the players will be more skillful than the ones today just because of the demands of the sport and the way it has evolved. It doesn't mean they are naturally more gifted, it just means a higher standard is required from them because things are much faster and more precise. If someone like Alex Murphy for example was a player today he would still probably be one of the best players in the world, but everything about him and the way he played would be different to the Alex Murphy that actually played.

[Evil Homer]

I'm pretty sure all the 18 will be considered 'athletes' yet at the end of the day, that's only a small part of what's required to be a good rugby player

Not really, I'm pretty sure the long jump champion at your local athletics club is considered an 'athlete' but Usain Bolt could beat him pretty easily with only minimal training. These aren't just meatheads from the gym, these are top athletes who have been playing a team sport that requires a lot more structure and discipline than RL does, and they have been able to play it to a level where they have been able to rise to the top ~5% of a pool of millions.

 

I think some people have this self-righteous idea that RL is some type of mystical sport that only the chosen few are able to really play and understand. No, if you're big, strong, athletic and have the skills then you can become a top player pretty quickly. It's not a complicated sport to learn.

[DoubleD]

Not really, I'm pretty sure the long jump champion at your local athletics club is considered an 'athlete' but Usain Bolt could beat him pretty easily with only minimal training. These aren't just meatheads from the gym, these are top athletes who have been playing a team sport that requires a lot more structure and discipline than RL does, and they have been able to play it to a level where they have been able to rise to the top ~5% of a pool of millions.

I think some people have this self-righteous idea that RL is some type of mystical sport that only the chosen few are able to really play and understand. No, if you're big, strong, athletic and have the skills then you can become a top player pretty quickly. It's not a complicated sport to learn.

The lack of success that gridiron players have had converting would suggest otherwise

It might not be a complicated game but the nuances and subtleties at the top level mean even union players struggle to adapt

[Evil Homer]

The lack of success that gridiron players have had converting would suggest otherwise

It might not be a complicated game but the nuances and subtleties at the top level mean even union players struggle to adapt

What lack of success? Which gridiron players have been unsuccessful, or RU players for that matter?

[deluded pom?]

Is there only one spot on the squad available?

[DoubleD]

What lack of success? Which gridiron players have been unsuccessful, or RU players for that matter?

Plenty since union went professional. Likes of Gareth Thomas and Andy Powell, Leeds, London and Catalans have all had converts who've failed to make it.

There have been a few gridiron players as Noble has always been a big fan and Catalans have had a couple train but they don't cut it. At a lower level like league 1 it's more feasible but they're not going to turn into top rugby players

[DoubleD]

The aerobic response to exercise has a much smaller genetic component than strength/speed/power, and can therefore be more easily trained. Getting an athlete stronger and faster than everyone else to a good level of aerobic fitness is easier than getting someone fitter than everyone else to a good level of strength and speed.

Gaddis in 2014 ran a 4.8 40 yard dash at 104kg - for comparison Valentine Holmes ran 4.6 and Taumololo ran 4.9 recently. So it isn't hard to imagine him being a million miles away from them two in terms of speed/power/strength. Getting him fit enough to play League 1 is gonna be much easier than taking a fit person and getting them to run a 4.8 40 yard dash at 104kg.

I wouldn't disagree but there's far more to the game than athletic ability as I've already stated

[Evil Homer]

Plenty since union went professional. Likes of Gareth Thomas and Andy Powell, Leeds, London and Catalans have all had converts who've failed to make it.

There have been a few gridiron players as Noble has always been a big fan and Catalans have had a couple train but they don't cut it. At a lower level like league 1 it's more feasible but they're not going to turn into top rugby players

 

Gareth Thomas was 36 years old with zero experience and still managed to be a credible SL player. Andy Powell played about 3 games and was released for off-field reasons. Which other converts have there been? Were they good RU players? What about Offiah or Johnathan Davies or Maurie Fa'asavalu, or do they not count because some guy from Exeter Chiefs 'B' team didn't make it in London Broncos U21s?

 

Again, which gridiron players have there been? Catalans had one NCAA guy who trained for a week two years ago, he was a scumbag drug addict who I believe was only there because he had been expelled from his college and had nothing else to do, IIRC he has since been arrested and I think is now in jail. And Catalans still said his athleticism was way ahead of anyone else at the club. Apart from him I literally can't think of anyone. I think Celtic Crusaders had some French guy from the NFL-Europe in about 2008, but we're really stretching it now. As I've said, guys from a gridiron background even at a very low level tend to walk into the USA national RL team after 1 year in the sport.

 

With due respect I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about here, at best you are clutching at straws. Again, this notion that we are all magical snowflakes playing a special sport that can only be truly understood by people from Wigan and Cas who have been playing since age 7 is stupid and counter-productive, and the sooner people get over it the better.

I wouldn't disagree but there's far more to the game than athletic ability as I've already stated

Yes, there's the understanding of the game, which can easily be taught especially to guys who already have experience playing a far more structured and nuanced sport, with far more in-depth coaching, at an elite level.

[DoubleD]

And with respect Homer I don't think you have a clue.

Leeds have tried lots of union players and they struggle and only if you get them young can it work potentially like Walters and he has far from made it. I've played both and they're far from similar so I can only imagine how gridiron players find it.

The level these gridiron players are at for USA RL is very low.

Clearly we're not going to agree so I'll happily sit back and watch all these gridiron players gracing SL in years to come. It may happen with the skill levels being so poor in SL these days

[Evil Homer]

And with respect Homer I don't think you have a clue.

Leeds have tried lots of union players and they struggle and only if you get them young can it work potentially like Walters and he has far from made it. I've played both and they're far from similar so I can only imagine how gridiron players find it.

The level these gridiron players are at for USA RL is very low.

Clearly we're not going to agree so I'll happily sit back and watch all these gridiron players gracing SL in years to come. It may happen with the skill levels being so poor in SL these days

Again, what level union players are you talking about? Just making blanket statements like "they struggle" isn't insightful or helpful. If they're just random plodders from some local team then yeah, they will struggle. If they are legitimately talented and have the skills and attributes that will transfer to RL then they won't struggle. Every case is different. The RU player from the Leeds Carnegie academy is not the same as the RU player from Fiji 7's team. Just dismissing people out of hand because they come from another sport is again, stupid and counter productive.

 

In terms of the gridiron players, there are guys who don't make it in the NFL who have physical attributes equivalent to or better than the likes of Jarryd Hayne and Greg Inglis. Yeah, they aren't RL players, they have never played RL before, if you put them on the field as they are they would be headless chickens. So would Hayne and Inglis if they hadn't played before. The point is that skills and tactics are things that can be taught and coached, the physical attributes and mentality to succeed are not. When you add to the fact that these are college educated guys who spend 20+ hours doing tape study per week and excel in a game that is far more technical and complicated than RL, the idea that they couldn't learn RL or that they would struggle running backwards and forwards 10 meters is pretty farcical. FWIW I doubt there will be too many gridiron players in SL since most people in RL seem think the same way as you do, making vague statements about how it 'takes more' to be a RL player while completely ignoring all facts, reason and logic. Most clubs also seem to be incapable of looking for talent at more than a 5 mile radius from their own stadium, a lot of clubs are still scared to sign French players FFS.

[DoubleD]

I wonder if you've ever played the sport Homer, I would guess not. You seem to think it is easy. I grew up playing union and then played league when I got to Leeds in my early 20s. It took me a good few years to get to grips with it and even then I was at a disadvantage to players who grew up with the game. Physical attributes can only take you so far, more as a prop. It took me the best part of 8 years till I felt I really got to know everything and I study the game a lot too and am not a slow learner. Playing in a full time environment would obviously speed up the process but even someone like Gareth Thomas stated he needed a good few seasons to get to grips with it and he wished he'd come across sooner in his career.

Perhaps if SL continues with its turgid way of churning out 'athletes' who are robots rather than thinkers and skilful players who light up the game then you may get your wish. I think the game will be so much poorer for it

[Poul]

Is there only one spot on the squad available?

 

I understand that there will be 5 players selected from the 18 selected from the try outs.

 

Hopefully there will be a Canadian in there.

 

I would like to see at least one of the American Football players make it, just to show what they may be capable of doing. Then we may be able to put to bed the idea that AF players are not capable of making the transition to Rugby League. If one of them were successful it may pave the way for more of these athletes to consider coming over to RL.

 

Hopefully one of the Jamaicans can make it as well.

[Bob8]

If it comes to the very highest level, it will be very hard for a player to cross over. DoubleD is entirely correct.

However, that is not the context of the current conversation. Toronto are playing at a level, while far above anything I could have dreamt of aspiring to, that is far more accessible to an uncoached athlete with inate skill.

[Bob8]

If it comes to the very highest level, it will be very hard for a player to cross over. DoubleD is entirely correct.

However, that is not the context of the current conversation. Toronto are playing at a level, while far above anything I could have dreamt of aspiring to, that is far more accessible to an uncoached athlete with inate skill.

[Oxford]

If it comes to the very highest level, it will be very hard for a player to cross over. DoubleD is entirely correct.

However, that is not the context of the current conversation. Toronto are playing at a level, while far above anything I could have dreamt of aspiring to, that is far more accessible to an uncoached athlete with inate skill.

Thanks for that Bob, I was wondering what the thread was about until you mentioned Toronto.

 

I think the example of Brian Carney might suit this theme best.

 

The players in the competition for joining the Wolfpack are being sieved and so long as it's not XFactor the chances are the right person will win.

[deluded pom?]

I understand that there will be 5 players selected from the 18 selected from the try outs.

 

Hopefully there will be a Canadian in there.

 

I would like to see at least one of the American Football players make it, just to show what they may be capable of doing. Then we may be able to put to bed the idea that AF players are not capable of making the transition to Rugby League. If one of them were successful it may pave the way for more of these athletes to consider coming over to RL.

 

Hopefully one of the Jamaicans can make it as well.

Thanks Poul.