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ckn

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7 minutes ago, ckn said:

Rant 5: The final straw.

I saw a great job last thing last night, based quite locally to me, 15 minutes of commute on a worst-case day, slightly lower on the job ranking and certainly not paid the London wages I was used to.  I'm just off the phone calling to see what the recruitment agency thought of my application.  The recruitment agent is refusing to put forward my CV because she said (brutally bluntly) I'd leave the company as soon as I found a better job.  My comment that I'd worked about 3/4 of the last 18 years in London with a 2 to 2½ hour commute each way and REALLY would love a local job with fewer stresses and that the lower pay didn't bother me apparently also came across as "desperate" to take any job and that puts off employers.  "Sorry, we can't help" *click*

If there's enough information in the advert for this one to figure out who the company maybe I'd have a look to see if there advertising it on the website, or send them a speculative CV just incase they may be looking for someone now or in the future.  Even if it doesn't work short term, you might get tapped up if the agency fails to deliver, or they deliver a candidate who legs it off to London for more money 5 minutes into the job................

Worked for my a couple of times when I couldn't get past an agent.

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2 minutes ago, shrek said:

If there's enough information in the advert for this one to figure out who the company maybe I'd have a look to see if there advertising it on the website, or send them a speculative CV just incase they may be looking for someone now or in the future.  Even if it doesn't work short term, you might get tapped up if the agency fails to deliver, or they deliver a candidate who legs it off to London for more money 5 minutes into the job................

Worked for my a couple of times when I couldn't get past an agent.

Thanks, I've a fair clue who it is but they don't advertise themselves.  I'll drop a speculative application in the post though.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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1 minute ago, ckn said:

Thanks, I've a fair clue who it is but they don't advertise themselves.  I'll drop a speculative application in the post though.

Its hard to keep you motivation up, but keep going!  I always hated this bit of the process, I'd not even get a response these days if I tried to fall back into my old career which sometimes keeps me awake at night!

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2 minutes ago, shrek said:

Its hard to keep you motivation up, but keep going!  I always hated this bit of the process, I'd not even get a response these days if I tried to fall back into my old career which sometimes keeps me awake at night!

It's a bit soul destroying having to work through 18 year old recruitment agents who hold your entire career in their hands when deciding which three candidates to put through on their quota for the role.

The worst part is seeing a job spec that you could have written for yourself and get either utterly ignored in application or a receive an automated rejection.

 

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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2 minutes ago, ckn said:

It's a bit soul destroying having to work through 18 year old recruitment agents who hold your entire career in their hands when deciding which three candidates to put through on their quota for the role.

The worst part is seeing a job spec that you could have written for yourself and get either utterly ignored in application or a receive an automated rejection.

 

I can relate to that!  When I was doing data analyst roles, I used to get agents ring me up, read a job spec to me, ask me loads of questions about the bits they didn't understand, so I'd patiently stand in a corridor explaining it to them, then I'd never hear from them again!

I never operated at a high level, so it maybe different further up the chain, but talk of building relationships with agents always made me laugh, the kids I dealt with were under such pressure to meet targets all they wanted was three CVs, any three CVs that wouldn't get laughed out the door would do, what they didn't want was a 4th CV clogging up there inbox when they'd moved on to the next role!

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8 minutes ago, shrek said:

I can relate to that!  When I was doing data analyst roles, I used to get agents ring me up, read a job spec to me, ask me loads of questions about the bits they didn't understand, so I'd patiently stand in a corridor explaining it to them, then I'd never hear from them again!

I never operated at a high level, so it maybe different further up the chain, but talk of building relationships with agents always made me laugh, the kids I dealt with were under such pressure to meet targets all they wanted was three CVs, any three CVs that wouldn't get laughed out the door would do, what they didn't want was a 4th CV clogging up there inbox when they'd moved on to the next role!

I've got three recruitment agents I have a good relationship with.  I worked through them as a contractor and they kept looking after me then, I then used them a lot as a senior manager looking for people to work with me and, again, they kept looking after me.  They're a genuine rarity though.

One has moved in-house at a company on the HR side.  One was just made redundant.  The third has just been promoted so doesn't do recruitment any more.  I reminded one of his outstanding timing at moving over a beer last week...

On the point you made, I had one young agent last week who was doing her best to sell a role to me, we spent about 30 minutes on the phone, she was seriously happy she'd found me on LinkedIn and that I was available, she said she'd send over the job spec and all I needed to do was send my CV and she'd get it in the same day.  Then nothing.  I called the next day and she said "sorry, I'd sent in my three CV quota".


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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I have an interview tomorrow with a Chief Exec of a mid-sized NHS organisation. I have no real idea what they want from the job, I know I don’t have the skills they put on the job description and the job is in a bit of the NHS where I’ve little but passing knowledge. They know they want “change” but, that’s about as far as they're going to disclose.  

I was persuaded to come in for an interview by a senior doctor I know well and I believe I’m the only candidate  

This is the first time in my career that I’ve been invited to interview based entirely on WHO I know rather than WHAT. Usually when I’m invited in by people I know, it’s for something in my core skillset. I’m not sure I like it really as it’s everything I’ve railed against in my career, seeing senior people promoted or appointed despite having no obvious experience or skills for the role. 

But, well, the bank balance is a bit light and a job is a job.  I promise I’ll sneer at myself in the mirror and tut at my blatant cronyism at least daily if I get it. 

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

I have an interview tomorrow with a Chief Exec of a mid-sized NHS organisation. I have no real idea what they want from the job, I know I don’t have the skills they put on the job description and the job is in a bit of the NHS where I’ve little but passing knowledge. They know they want “change” but, that’s about as far as they're going to disclose.  

I was persuaded to come in for an interview by a senior doctor I know well and I believe I’m the only candidate  

This is the first time in my career that I’ve been invited to interview based entirely on WHO I know rather than WHAT. Usually when I’m invited in by people I know, it’s for something in my core skillset. I’m not sure I like it really as it’s everything I’ve railed against in my career, seeing senior people promoted or appointed despite having no obvious experience or skills for the role. 

But, well, the bank balance is a bit light and a job is a job.  I promise I’ll sneer at myself in the mirror and tut at my blatant cronyism at least daily if I get it. 

Good luck! You can always turn it down, but is great to be offered a job (even if you think you know nothing about it!).

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10 hours ago, ckn said:

I have an interview tomorrow with a Chief Exec of a mid-sized NHS organisation. I have no real idea what they want from the job, I know I don’t have the skills they put on the job description and the job is in a bit of the NHS where I’ve little but passing knowledge. They know they want “change” but, that’s about as far as they're going to disclose.  

I was persuaded to come in for an interview by a senior doctor I know well and I believe I’m the only candidate  

This is the first time in my career that I’ve been invited to interview based entirely on WHO I know rather than WHAT. Usually when I’m invited in by people I know, it’s for something in my core skillset. I’m not sure I like it really as it’s everything I’ve railed against in my career, seeing senior people promoted or appointed despite having no obvious experience or skills for the role. 

But, well, the bank balance is a bit light and a job is a job.  I promise I’ll sneer at myself in the mirror and tut at my blatant cronyism at least daily if I get it. 

If you're the only candidate, I'm not sure how much the cronyism criticism applies. Not like you're denying another applicant the chance to get the job! Good luck.

Edited by Saint 1

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6 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

If you're the only candidate, I'm not sure how much the cronyism criticism applies. Not like you're denying another applicant the chance to get the job! Good luck.

Thanks!  The job hasn't been advertised, if I don't get it then it will be, that's where my claim of cronyism falls.  They may have invited others but just have told me there wasn't to make me feel good.  But, as they say, the first casualties of troubled times are ethics and morality, and a job is a job.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Whether it's the new year and new budgets or what I don't know but I've been called by recruitment agents 3 times in the past week or so with jobs specifically aimed at my experience and skillset, all offering a reasonable handfull of more cash than I get now but as I only started this role in October and it seems to be working quite well for me I've told them all I'm not interested. I did mutter "where were you 6 months ago" as I put the phone down.

Edited by Shadow
Didn't realise that word got through the sweary filter!

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11 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Whether it's the new year and new budgets or what I don't know but I've been called by recruitment agents 3 times in the past week or so with jobs specifically aimed at my experience and skillset, all offering a reasonable handfull of more cash than I get now but as I only started this role in October and it seems to be working quite well for me I've told them all I'm not interested. I did mutter "where were you 6 months ago" as I put the phone down.

I know one very senior manager who tests new employees a few months in with things like this!  He gets a pet recruitment agency to call and see if they can be tempted, he says its his way of testing loyalty and attitude.

If he does it, it's almost guaranteed that others will as well.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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5 minutes ago, ckn said:

I know one very senior manager who tests new employees a few months in with things like this!  He gets a pet recruitment agency to call and see if they can be tempted, he says its his way of testing loyalty and attitude.

If he does it, it's almost guaranteed that others will as well.

What a great way of engendering a fantastic working environment. 

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16 minutes ago, Shadow said:

What a great way of engendering a fantastic working environment. 

If you read Dilbert, he IS the pointy haired boss..


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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7 minutes ago, ckn said:

If you read Dilbert, he IS the pointy haired boss..

My life used to be partway between Dilbert and Alex. But not in a good way.

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

I know one very senior manager who tests new employees a few months in with things like this!  He gets a pet recruitment agency to call and see if they can be tempted, he says its his way of testing loyalty and attitude.

If he does it, it's almost guaranteed that others will as well.

I'd call that projection. If he thinks his minions could be tempted away by one phone call it sounds like because he knows he would be.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Ckn, it's not a 'who you know' situation, it's a 'what someone knows about you' situation. No need to feel bad at all.

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Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society

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4 hours ago, ckn said:

Thanks!  The job hasn't been advertised, if I don't get it then it will be, that's where my claim of cronyism falls.  They may have invited others but just have told me there wasn't to make me feel good.  But, as they say, the first casualties of troubled times are ethics and morality, and a job is a job.

It's not ethics or morality, remember back in the day when you were a drop short FOO and you would find yourself selected for tasks that had no bearing on your skillset or training but because the officer or SNCO in charge knew you and the standard of work you were capable of he selected you for your attitude and determination?

Same thing here. I have no background or experience in my new role but because I've been a "hands on" manager in manufacturing and distribution Ihave been employed for what they think I could do rather than what I have done.

Edited by Shadow
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2 hours ago, Shadow said:

It's not ethics or morality, remember back in the day when you were a drop short FOO and you would find yourself selected for tasks that had no bearing on your skillset or training but because the officer or SNCO in charge knew you and the standard of work you were capable of he selected you for your attitude and determination?

Same thing here. I have no background or experience in my new role but because I've been a "hands on" manager in manufacturing and distribution Ihave been employed for what they think I could do rather than what I have done.

I think this is the heart of it.  After lots of dragging it out of them, they want a "robust fixer" capable of cleaning up the bodies after myself.  I think they've watched too much American TV, especially Ray Donovan...

They're being run rings round by other NHS bodies and private competitors who have more business savvy than them, they want me to fix what I can, "commercialise" them and kill off anything that's a threat to their continued existence.

Apparently, they'd heard good things about how I'd "commercialised" and saved another failing NHS service.  That is deliberately marked as "commercialised", it means giving them the capability and capacity to survive against private sector competitors in a NHS competitive environment where NHS organisations are routinely penalised for not having marketing and PR departments to promote their case in bids and competitions.

I was blunt in that I had almost no direct experience of their environment or size of company, smaller than any company I've ever worked for.  They replied that they wanted my "get things done" attitude and I could learn the environment as I went.

All they need to do is hurry up getting the money and I *think* I may have some work.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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My CV keeps getting bounced back from recruitment agencies because I had worked in the Operating Theatres for nearly 30 years, and have done nothing else, now I'm 55 they say I'm too old to be retrained.

I applied to a certain, locally based, "Over-50's" insurance/Travel company, for tele-sales/Customer Services, and got refused before I had even logged off their website.

What a SAGA that was.

Edited by Bleep1673

RESURGAM

Non solum autem Leones

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2 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

My CV keeps getting bounced back from recruitment agencies because I had worked in the Operating Theatres for nearly 30 years, and have done nothing else, now I'm 55 they say I'm too old to be retrained.

I applied to a certain, locally based, "Over-50's" insurance/Travel company, for tele-sales/Customer Services, and got refused before I had even logged off their website.

What a SAGA that was.

Have you tried going to one of these agencies and asking them for suggestions on how to improve your CV to make it more attractive to potential employers?  Also (and my genuine apologies if I come across as patronising) when I was "between jobs" last year I signed up with a number of temp agencies where I found that turning up on time with a willingness to work and not thinking anyone owed me a living seemd to be a refreshing change for a number of the companies I worked for several of which could have led to a permanent role in either the Mineral Water bottling and distribution or Commercial Laundry industries. Even if it doesn't lead to a permanent role it's all experience to put on your CV. Remember you can't outright lie on your CV but you are not on oath. You can tailor your experience to the employer's needs.

 

Edited by Shadow

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2 hours ago, Shadow said:

Have you tried going to one of these agencies and asking them for suggestions on how to improve your CV to make it more attractive to potential employers?  Also (and my genuine apologies if I come across as patronising) when I was "between jobs" last year I signed up with a number of temp agencies..

 

Tried those three times last year, I even got warned by one "Agency" to stop wasting their time, or else....! There is about six or seven agencies in Hastings. I've tried them all. I was even thinking about going as far as Eastbourne, and trawling theirs, but I don't have the train fare (which is cheaper than the bus, F***ing Stagecoach).

Edited by Bleep1673

RESURGAM

Non solum autem Leones

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3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

My CV keeps getting bounced back from recruitment agencies because I had worked in the Operating Theatres for nearly 30 years, and have done nothing else, now I'm 55 they say I'm too old to be retrained.

I applied to a certain, locally based, "Over-50's" insurance/Travel company, for tele-sales/Customer Services, and got refused before I had even logged off their website.

What a SAGA that was.

The trick is to not write about how good you were in operating theatres but what transferable skills you have from there.  When leaving the army, this was a major part of the resettlement training, how to transfer being good with big guns, green stuff and institutionalised behaviour can translate to ANY other career.

Here's a decent article I saw on this on a search.  For example, any clinical safety duty easily translates to 30 years of proven experience of regulatory safety and attention to detail, you're a step ahead of a other people in that one because of your experience and training.

Give yourself time to do this properly, it's not something you fit in with a lunchtime sandwich.  Get others involved who know you well and ask for robust feedback on what you do well, you're NOT interested in what you don't do well!


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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On 1/19/2018 at 4:53 PM, ckn said:

I think this is the heart of it.  After lots of dragging it out of them, they want a "robust fixer" capable of cleaning up the bodies after myself.  I think they've watched too much American TV, especially Ray Donovan...

They're being run rings round by other NHS bodies and private competitors who have more business savvy than them, they want me to fix what I can, "commercialise" them and kill off anything that's a threat to their continued existence.

Apparently, they'd heard good things about how I'd "commercialised" and saved another failing NHS service.  That is deliberately marked as "commercialised", it means giving them the capability and capacity to survive against private sector competitors in a NHS competitive environment where NHS organisations are routinely penalised for not having marketing and PR departments to promote their case in bids and competitions.

I was blunt in that I had almost no direct experience of their environment or size of company, smaller than any company I've ever worked for.  They replied that they wanted my "get things done" attitude and I could learn the environment as I went.

All they need to do is hurry up getting the money and I *think* I may have some work.

Just been told that the work is mine pending financial approval.  This is out of their hands as it's being externally funded, but is apparently more than 95% likely to be approved.  Knowing the NHS, that'll mean mid February...

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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