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Expressions Of Interest Sought For New 'Southern Premier League'.

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On 11/22/2018 at 1:40 PM, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Confirmed so far are

All Golds

Torfean Tigers

Valley Cougars

Cardiff Dragons

Swindon St George 

That will be it for 2019 apparently.  Five teams, triple round robin, teams that have been rejected have been encouraged to get their acts together and try again next year.

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4 hours ago, bbfaz said:

That will be it for 2019 apparently.  Five teams, triple round robin, teams that have been rejected have been encouraged to get their acts together and try again next year.

So what makes this any better than what was previously in place? Basically a merger of the West Of England and Wales Premier clubs?

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1 hour ago, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

So what makes this any better than what was previously in place? Basically a merger of the West Of England and Wales Premier clubs?

Looks that way...................are they playing an extended season?

Hopefully it's just a stepping stone to a better structured, longer and competitive season in 2020

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Playing each other 3 times is 15 games.

Its not that long ago that the Midlands Premier and the London Premier were 14 game regular seasons.

Struggling to see what makes this better than every other Tier 4 league in the south of England. 

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Just seen my informant (actually a chap from Hemel who I bump in to occasionally) and he tells me that the latest rumour (and he stresses rumour) he has heard is that the National Conf South (East Division) will be made up of all the London Prem teams (except one, that doesn't want to travel), Hemel Stags, Bedford Tigers, North Herts Crusaders, and two clubs from London league 1, giving a league of eight teams and a 14 game season.

The league below will be the one club from the London Prem, Hemel A, the three clubs left over from the London Div 1 and the three clubs left over from East Prem giving a league of 8 teams and 14 games.

He also says that the RFL have said they will not be helping with travel costs for the  Nat Conf South for the first year, contrary to the rumours that were going about.

As he said, all rumours at the moment, wonder when we will find out what's happening.

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7 hours ago, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

So what makes this any better than what was previously in place? Basically a merger of the West Of England and Wales Premier clubs?

Partial merger I suppose.  Look, the attitude of everybody involved is that something needs to be done.  Get it on the field and work out the kinks from there.  Then extend/reorganise the league in 2020, where hopefully a few more teams get their act together and meet the criteria in the meantime.  The game has hidden behind the sofa for a few years, cut the number of games getting played.

Unfortunately, due to the way things have been going over the past few years, there is little stability.  In the past, you would've fancied Oxford or Devon to be involved but one finished last in the WoE Super 5s (and Oxford RL have disappeared, their wagons were tethered together somewhat) and the other hasn't played a competitive game for some time.  Similarly Bath RL haven't achieved sufficiently on the field and I don't think anybody wants to see teams get a leg up because they have "shown ambition".  There has to be a balance of having facilities, of having desire to move up and on-field achievements.

No, it's not better but they're trying to get to something better and this is the process they've decided to take.  I offer no opinion on the matter.

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Hey Jasper.

3 hours ago, Jasper said:

Just seen my informant (actually a chap from Hemel who I bump in to occasionally) and he tells me that the latest rumour (and he stresses rumour) he has heard is that the National Conf South (East Division) will be made up of all the London Prem teams (except one, that doesn't want to travel), Hemel Stags, Bedford Tigers, North Herts Crusaders, and two clubs from London league 1, giving a league of eight teams and a 14 game season.

Unless something has changed and they haven't informed the RFL, it will be a 9 team league and they are aiming for 14 rounds.  Whether or not that generates 14 fixtures per team is quite another matter because there's a debate over how to generate a fixture list.  If it was just eight teams double round robin, it would be easy and wonderful.  However, it's 9 teams and there needs to be an element of fixture-related jiggery pokery.  Do you have a split-season type situation, do you pre-seed teams and have loop fixtures based on that?  Geographic loop fixtures.  I don't know, no decision has been made as yet.

 

3 hours ago, Jasper said:

The league below will be the one club from the London Prem, Hemel A, the three clubs left over from the London Div 1 and the three clubs left over from East Prem giving a league of 8 teams and 14 games.

 

Essentially there are three points here.

  1. Unless something has changed since last night and nobody has told the RFL, the story of one London Prem club wanting to stay in the London region isn't true.
  2. In saying that, I can't say what is going on behind closed doors.  All I can discuss is what has been openly discussed or I have verified.
  3. The current official line is that there is no plan about what to do going forward, beyond organising a London Merit League format for 2019 and the East sorting themselves out.  They're trying to sort out the Southern Premier level and then work down from there.

Let's break it down though.  The two teams "left over" from this season's London Championship are Medway and Newham, neither of whom are particularly happy with this state of affairs.  Newham could make a go of being in an extended East Premier, Medway perhaps not.  There are entry league teams and perhaps a Skolars community setup, that would make an 8 game season, same as this year.

The East seems a bit more organised, due to the Bedford chairman taking on the role of league chairman.  You have the three Premier teams (Brentwood, St Albans, St Ives) and apparently the two Div 1 sides are back for 2019 (Southend and Luton) and (hopefully) the return of Kings Lynn.  That's a league, a very open league, with a massive footprint.

The issue is the A grades.  Some teams just want to play double headers against other A grades, some might want to play in a local league, some want some combination of the two.

 

3 hours ago, Jasper said:

He also says that the RFL have said they will not be helping with travel costs for the  Nat Conf South for the first year, contrary to the rumours that were going about.

As he said, all rumours at the moment, wonder when we will find out what's happening.

 

Clubs and Competions have repeatedly said there would be some help but it hasn't been nailed down.

This isn't rumours, Jasper.

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Quote

 

The 14 clubs participating with the Southern Conference League in 2019 are: 

Western Division:

All Golds (Gloucestershire)

Cardiff Blue Dragons

Swindon St George

Torfaen Tigers

Valley Cougars

Eastern Division: 

Bedford Tigers

Brixton Bulls

Eastern Rhinos

Hammersmith Hills Hoists

Hemel Stags

London Chargers

North Herts Crusaders

South London Silverbacks

Wests Warriors

 

 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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24 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

 

Could someone not have come up with a 5-5-4 split of those teams? London / Central / West or something?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Could someone not have come up with a 5-5-4 split of those teams? London / Central / West or something?

I did think it would be 7 and 7 to be honest, based on the headline.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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21 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

 

Ideally a 7/7 split would be best, but looking at the geography a 6/4/4 split

 

21 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Could someone not have come up with a 5-5-4 split of those teams? London / Central / West or something?

Got to agree. Geographic split of5/5/4 with cross division games would make sense. How many games are teams playing? The current groupings could mean 8 games each if west play H/A & east single fixtures, neither enough. 

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On 11/22/2018 at 1:40 PM, Wiltshire Rhino said:

What I heard today... 

 

Confirmed so far are

All Golds

Torfean Tigers

Valley Cougars

Cardiff Dragons

Swindon St George 

 

To be comfirmed

West Wales Raiders 2nd Team

A couple of teams from the Midlands, who my mate couldn't remember

 

Denied

Bath RL - No reason given 

Devon Sharks - Didn’t play enough competitive rugby last year

Cornish Pirates - Travel was too far for clubs

Saltash - Were not competitive enough in the Harry Jepson

 

Also, I've been told, the RFL plan to upload these games onto the Our League app. 

Interesting because the Cornish Pirates are a Championship Rugby Union team, the Cornish Rebels however expressed interest and took it no further due to their on going RLWC2021 application and expansion of their schools and junior rugby league projects. 

Along with their continued support of the very fragile South West League it was felt the timing wasn't right for the club.

I do believe though that the club is laying the foundations for them to take a step up in the near future, by creating their own pathway and developing their own players so they don't continue to have to rely on Union players in their off season. 

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13 hours ago, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

So can anyone explain what makes this competition a Tier 4 competition now, elevating it from Tier 5?

Not with a straight face, no.  However, what should a Tier 4 competition look like?

 

2 hours ago, kev p said:

Ideally a 7/7 split would be best, but looking at the geography a 6/4/4 split

 

Got to agree. Geographic split of5/5/4 with cross division games would make sense. How many games are teams playing? The current groupings could mean 8 games each if west play H/A & east single fixtures, neither enough. 

This has already been explained above.  They put the idea out there and the RFL are determined to get this on the field no matter what.  The biggest clubs in the Midlands either decided to move North or have collapsed.  There is no central anything right now.

So you have a West league where it's the same Welsh teams, who are always up for a wider geographic league, and whoever the flavour of the month is in the West of England league.  In the East, the only way they could get a league was to go for loads of teams and see what swims.  Nobody wants cross-regional games, it's simply not practical.

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4 hours ago, bbfaz said:

Not with a straight face, no.  However, what should a Tier 4 competition look like?

 

This has already been explained above.  They put the idea out there and the RFL are determined to get this on the field no matter what.  The biggest clubs in the Midlands either decided to move North or have collapsed.  There is no central anything right now.

So you have a West league where it's the same Welsh teams, who are always up for a wider geographic league, and whoever the flavour of the month is in the West of England league.  In the East, the only way they could get a league was to go for loads of teams and see what swims.  Nobody wants cross-regional games, it's simply not practical.

I assume that the west division will see the end of the welsh league? Perhaps the west wales first team should be in the west division!

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5 hours ago, bbfaz said:

Not with a straight face, no.  However, what should a Tier 4 competition look like?

 

This has already been explained above.  They put the idea out there and the RFL are determined to get this on the field no matter what.  The biggest clubs in the Midlands either decided to move North or have collapsed.  There is no central anything right now.

So you have a West league where it's the same Welsh teams, who are always up for a wider geographic league, and whoever the flavour of the month is in the West of England league.  In the East, the only way they could get a league was to go for loads of teams and see what swims.  Nobody wants cross-regional games, it's simply not practical.

What should it look like? Well, The NCL; full season of fixtures (22+ games), second teams and juniors in place at participating clubs, fields at least roped off and ideally a fixed perimeter barrier, match report of each game...

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On 12/18/2018 at 7:16 PM, kev p said:

I assume that the west division will see the end of the welsh league? Perhaps the west wales first team should be in the west division!

This is what I originally said.  Without these teams, the only areas without viability issues are the places where no or few teams have been taken.  Midlands is unchanged, South West is unchanged, West of England needs a change of format.

 

On 12/18/2018 at 7:24 PM, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

What should it look like? Well, The NCL; full season of fixtures (22+ games), second teams and juniors in place at participating clubs, fields at least roped off and ideally a fixed perimeter barrier, match report of each game...

I would've thought that you of all people would understand that will never happen and why it will never happen.  Well, it will never happen if things stay as they are.

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17 hours ago, bbfaz said:

 

I would've thought that you of all people would understand that will never happen and why it will never happen.  Well, it will never happen if things stay as they are.

Hence the questions.... can anyone tell me why this league is better than what was there previously? Whats the impact on the game for growth? Why is it noe Tier 4 if nothing has changed?

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On 12/21/2018 at 7:03 AM, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

Hence the questions.... can anyone tell me why this league is better than what was there previously? Whats the impact on the game for growth? Why is it noe Tier 4 if nothing has changed?

You have to start somewhere?

The East is now a 9 strong club competition (most of who have permanent 2nd teams) which means that when 2019 season is over the discussions won’t be “what will the comp be in 2020” but rather should we extend from a 14 to 16 week season? Should we add a 10th team? Should we add a second team comp?

It gives consistency for clubs so they can build year on year, maybe start juniors, or look for a permenant field. 

Will this be the same as NCL Premier? No, but maybe NCL Div 2 or 3?

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1 hour ago, London Drifter said:

You have to start somewhere?

The East is now a 9 strong club competition (most of who have permanent 2nd teams) which means that when 2019 season is over the discussions won’t be “what will the comp be in 2020” but rather should we extend from a 14 to 16 week season? Should we add a 10th team? Should we add a second team comp?

It gives consistency for clubs so they can build year on year, maybe start juniors, or look for a permenant field. 

Will this be the same as NCL Premier? No, but maybe NCL Div 2 or 3?

Probably not, in terms of playing standard. However, that does not matter. For me it's about these clubs now having more space to grow in a way they potentially couldn't do with a May - August season in a slightly weaker competition.

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4 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

Probably not, in terms of playing standard. However, that does not matter. For me it's about these clubs now having more space to grow in a way they potentially couldn't do with a May - August season in a slightly weaker competition.

So they will be playing a longer season then? Is this a certainty?

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45 minutes ago, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

So they will be playing a longer season then? Is this a certainty?

I'm  brushing off onto you a little it Dave :) 

IMO Standards on the field drive and sustain competitions not the division's title and a place at the top table also needs to be earned, advertising for volunteers does not work if the standard is going to be all over the place, this is probably why the Pennine and Yorkshire men's league are all over the shop having teams of different standards, it's a fact that the NCL top three divisions are probably the only stable divisions in the entire amateur game.

I remember an interview with Brian Clough when they asked him about the new exciting Premier league, his reply was "It's the old first division isn't it"

 


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Why don't the better teams try join the NCL? How is it tier 4, when the best sides in York's lancs Cumbria regiaonl leagues would  match them, at best its tier 5, if that

Edited by johnmatrix

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I honestly wouldn't wipe my backside after a curry with these designations.  If anything, they just draw bores to conversations like this like flies on horse dung.

It's a tier 4 league because it's a tier 4 league.  It's meaningless nonsense and anybody whinging about that because of the NCL or the leagues in the north needs to get a meaningful hobby, I would suggest knitting.

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