Swinton player Will Hope suffers horrific leg break, then has to wait five hours to get it treated (Merged Threads)

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Still, a doctor has signed that off. That’s negligent and awful player welfare. 

You don't know the facts and it certainly doesn't mean a doctor was negligent. I'm sure the Doctor did what he thought was best and if there was no prospect of an ambulance it would be imperative to get the player to the hospital. This had to be done somehow.

An awful lot of people are casting aspersions without knowing that facts on what led to the decisions.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

You don't know the facts and it certainly doesn't mean a doctor was negligent. I'm sure the Doctor did what he thought was best and if there was no prospect of an ambulance it would be imperative to get the player to the hospital. This had to be done somehow.

An awful lot of people are casting aspersions without knowing that facts on what led to the decisions.

I'd be very surprised if the doctor 'signed off' what happened as they would be putting their future authority to practise at serious risk.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

You don't know the facts and it certainly doesn't mean a doctor was negligent. I'm sure the Doctor did what he thought was best and if there was no prospect of an ambulance it would be imperative to get the player to the hospital. This had to be done somehow.

An awful lot of people are casting aspersions without knowing that facts on what led to the decisions.

Either way, the player welfare shouts are wrong. There’s a coach of at least 17-18 players, a handful of staff (including a physio) and board members I’d imagine and not one of them has got a bloke with a bad injury to the nearest hospital. The bus driver has also allowed someone onto his vehicle with no secure strapping (as in a seat belt). Negligence at its finest and not a fault of The RFL. 

People in glass houses and all that. 

[philipw]

54 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

I think that's the point. There wasn't a facility to enable that to happen at Sheffield given that the lad was on a stretcher.  Barring loading him onto the team bus.

There wasn't a car owned by any member of staff that someone could have used? Come on, lets have it right. YAS have obviously prioritised the job on its merits and demands on its resources. There is nothing that was stopping other modes of transport to a suitable hospital. 

[Angelic Cynic]

I wish Will Hope a full recovery.

On a grander scale,the fears of many of a terrorist attack outside of London where armed police and trained medics surround the Westminster Bubble,it does seem Sheffield is both ill-prepared and under-prepared,as is the case with the rest of the UK.

Sadly,it is not uncommon,around the UK,for long delays for ambulances.

I am unsure as to whether it is of any benefit to keep this incident quiet,or make a noise about it.

I will state that the MP,even though she is Labour,Louise Haigh,is massively impressive.( Though she may cover a different part of Sheffield.)

Perhaps with World Cup games scheduled for Sheffield,and with the council even getting onside,perhaps getting important people like MP's to take an interest in this unnecessary situation may be beneficial. 

[Damien]

31 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I'd be very surprised if the doctor 'signed off' what happened as they would be putting their future authority to practise at serious risk.

You don't know what happened, neither do I with regards to the decisions made by a Doctor. What I do know is that any First Aid course or paramedic will advice getting to a hospital as quickly as possible if there is no ambulance forthcoming. I certainly wouldn't have waited 3 hours. This is not a perfect world and situations and decisions like this are a fairly common occurrence. Sometimes just waiting on an ambulance, that may never become available, isn't an option.

[Lowdesert]

10 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

I wish Will Hope a full recovery.

On a grander scale,the fears of many of a terrorist attack outside of London where armed police and trained medics surround the Westminster Bubble,it does seem Sheffield is both ill-prepared and under-prepared,as is the case with the rest of the UK.

Sadly,it is not uncommon,around the UK,for long delays for ambulances.

I am unsure as to whether it is of any benefit to keep this incident quiet,or make a noise about it.

I will state that the MP,even though she is Labour,Louise Haigh,is massively impressive.( Though she may cover a different part of Sheffield.)

Perhaps with World Cup games scheduled for Sheffield,and with the council even getting onside,perhaps getting important people like MP's to take an interest in this unnecessary situation may be beneficial. 

Barring the first line, bit of a daft post mate.

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

I wish Will Hope a full recovery.

On a grander scale,the fears of many of a terrorist attack outside of London where armed police and trained medics surround the Westminster Bubble,it does seem Sheffield is both ill-prepared and under-prepared,as is the case with the rest of the UK.

Sadly,it is not uncommon,around the UK,for long delays for ambulances.

I am unsure as to whether it is of any benefit to keep this incident quiet,or make a noise about it.

I will state that the MP,even though she is Labour,Louise Haigh,is massively impressive.( Though she may cover a different part of Sheffield.)

Perhaps with World Cup games scheduled for Sheffield,and with the council even getting onside,perhaps getting important people like MP's to take an interest in this unnecessary situation may be beneficial. 

Louise Haigh is very good as an MP she is the MP (literally) around the corner from work and she has been in a couple of times, she has also been very good with issues around our area getting some sorted very quickly. She is one of the very few MPs that i have some time for at the moment. 

However, completely the wrong end of the city and frankly I would be massively hacked off if she got herself anywhere near embroiled in this.. as I would if it were the MP for that area.. they have much more important things to be worried about than the intricacies of the timings of Ambulances to specific issues. Yes she should, and is, one of those campaigning against the cuts etc  but picking up the odd thing here or there seems silly. 

We're all speculating here but to be fair, to add more speculation. If there is a big accident somewhere on one of the major arterial routes around the area (and there are a lot covered by the ambulance service here) then there simply may not have been enough... prioritise etc and if that is the case i totally understand this lad not being prioritised if he is stable and with a doctor.. i'd be more hacked off if they went there instead of a toddler in a house that was choking or someone who had had a heart attack in the middle of the street with no one qualified to look after them or an old person cold and injured in their house (its that time of year) with no one there to help etc.. 

its not great but in a country where we all know that there are issues with the funding of the health service this is understandable but not ideal. (frankly even with great funding one freak occurrence can mean people waiting longer than they should)

it would be a massive over reaction to start getting people involved in a specific incident like this. Next match it has an ambulance there and the story is "child dies as ambulance tied up at Rugby League game" etc.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

21 minutes ago, Damien said:

You don't know what happened, neither do I with regards to the decisions made by a Doctor. What I do know is that any First Aid course or paramedic will advice getting to a hospital as quickly as possible if there is no ambulance forthcoming. I certainly wouldn't have waited 3 hours. This is not a perfect world and situations and decisions like this are a fairly common occurrence. Sometimes just waiting on an ambulance, that may never become available, isn't an option.

No, but I do know that by far and away the vast majority of doctors would not endanger their patients any more than was absolutely necessary else they face the very real risk of being struck off. Either the injury wasn't as serious as being made out or, quite possibly, the doctor agreed that he should be taken to hospital by other means or the patient effectively discharged himself from his care (despite what many think, doctors can't normally stop people doing stupid things). I'm absolutely certain that they would not agree to a transfer all the way to Salford on the floor of a coach. And as for duty of care, the Swinton club taking him that way and the driver carrying a passenger in that state on his coach are more than guilty of neglect.

[Damien]

For me the only questionable thing is not going to the nearest hospital. That makes absolutely no sense to me and seems like a conscious decision by player and/or club. Waiting 3 hours doesn't make much sense either. That is where any investigation should be. The rest is just very unfortunate but unfortunately is a fairly common occurrence in amateur sport.

[RP London]

a bit of a wishy washy statement from the ambulance service but theres nothing like being put on the spot.. doubt we will get the ins and outs of it but ironic that the photo they have of him is in an eagles shirt.. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/47130008

[paulwalker71]

There isn't half some rubbish being spouted on this thread.

If you actually read the BBC report linked above, it is 100% clear that the 'fault' isn't with the RFL or Sheffield Eagles, but entirely due to the restrictions placed on the Ambulance Service due to their budget.

There is NO requirement to have an ambulance at games - and given the episode on Sunday, surely it is obvious that taking an ambulance 'out of service' just on the off-chance of a serious injury at a rugby match, would be a gross misuse of the already stretched resources.

The ambulance service in Sheffield were clearly rushed off their feet on Sunday. Anyone who seriously thinks that the Eagles or RFL should insist on an ambulance being parked up at the Eagles ground is, frankly, being ridiculous. What would you say to a victim of a serious car crash, left in a critical condition on the outskirts of Sheffield?

'Sorry, mate, you'll have to wait until the rugby has finished before we can get you an ambulance?' 

[The Lad]

A Swinton Lions player Will Hope has suffered a terrible  injury needing ankle reconstructive  surgery, a plate and screws in his leg after suffering a broken ankle, leg and torn ligaments.

He had to wait "3 hours for an ambulance that never came" he ended up having to be driven from Sheffield to Stafford for treatment. He says and quite rightly so in my opinion that "if it was a super league game it would be quite different". 

These men go to work on Monday after playing a game on the Sunday and train 2 or 3 days a week after work and deserve the same health care that super league players get.

Just like to wish Will a quick recovery and all the best.

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, The Lad said:

A Swinton Lions player Will Hope has suffered a terrible  injury needing ankle reconstructive  surgery, a plate and screws in his leg after suffering a broken ankle, leg and torn ligaments.

He had to wait "3 hours for an ambulance that never came" he ended up having to be driven from Sheffield to Stafford for treatment. He says and quite rightly so in my opinion that "if it was a super league game it would be quite different". 

These men go to work on Monday after playing a game on the Sunday and train 2 or 3 days a week after work and deserve the same health care that super league players get.

already covered

[The Lad]

Thanks, i couldn't find it and so wanted to make sure it was up

[The Lad]

Its terrible that anyone had to wait that long for treatment, the pain that man must have been in isn't something i don't want to experience, i understand where he is coming  from when he says if this was a super league game as i don't think Leeds or Warrington  player will have to wait 3 hours. 

But this is about the ambulance service and how they have let him down, i think the RFL should do more to make this something that is brought to the  St Johns services attention.

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, The Lad said:

Its terrible that anyone had to wait that long for treatment, the pain that man must have been in isn't something i don't want to experience, i understand where he is coming  from when he says if this was a super league game as i don't think Leeds or Warrington  player will have to wait 3 hours. 

But this is about the ambulance service and how they have let him down, i think the RFL should do more to make this something that is brought to the  St Johns services attention.

why?

[philipw]

12 minutes ago, The Lad said:

 

But this is about the ambulance service and how they have let him down, i think the RFL should do more to make this something that is brought to the  St Johns services attention.

How so? By allocating their limited resources in order of priority?

[philipw]

13 minutes ago, The Lad said:

Its terrible that anyone had to wait that long for treatment, the pain that man must have been in isn't something i don't want to experience, i understand where he is coming  from when he says if this was a super league game as i don't think Leeds or Warrington  player will have to wait 3 hours. 

But this is about the ambulance service and how they have let him down, i think the RFL should do more to make this something that is brought to the  St Johns services attention.

Given they, self-admittedly, couldn't treat him further, what exactly do you think SJA are going to do?

[RP London]

1 minute ago, philipw said:

How so? By allocating their limited resources in order of priority?

absolutely... i'd rather be in his pain than the person/people they prioritised ahead of him who, you have to imagine, were in a lot worse a state. 

 

[philipw]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

absolutely... i'd rather be in his pain than the person/people they prioritised ahead of him who, you have to imagine, were in a lot worse a state. 

 

Of course YAS should (and did) prioritise - if there were others more needing of emergency treatment it is 100% correct that he was left waiting (especially given that he had medical attention on-site). Yet you say they let him down? How exactly have they done so?

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, philipw said:

Of course YAS should (and did) prioritise - if there were others more needing of emergency treatment it is 100% correct that he was left waiting (especially given that he had medical attention on-site). Yet you say they let him down? How exactly have they done so?

where have i said that?

I have consistently said "its not great" or "its not right" but also that ultimately its not the YAS issue that they dont have enough to prioritise... i have defended them.. 

[Ackroman]

Now a main headline on Radio 5live - the RFL are investigating the incident

[paulwalker71]

31 minutes ago, The Lad said:

But this is about the ambulance service and how they have let him down, i think the RFL should do more to make this something that is brought to the  St Johns services attention.

I don't think you understand the difference between St Johns Ambulance volunteers and fully-qualified paramedics.

SJA are people who give their time to offer some very basic first aid, such as when a child bumps their head on a crush barrier, or someone cuts their finger on a beer glass. They are definitely not qualified to deal with an incident such as that which occurred on Sunday. In these litigious times, they'll keep well away from incidents outside their parameters - and, frankly, who can blame them?

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I don't think you understand the difference between St Johns Ambulance volunteers and fully-qualified paramedics.

SJA are people who give their time to offer some very basic first aid, such as when a child bumps their head on a crush barrier, or someone cuts their finger on a beer glass. They are definitely not qualified to deal with an incident such as that which occurred on Sunday. In these litigious times, they'll keep well away from incidents outside their parameters - and, frankly, who can blame them?

i think there is confusion as some are also trained paramedics working for St Johns and have full rigged up ambulances that help support the NHS too... but equally if the whole 999 response system is busy that includes those St Johns ambulances that are helping them at that time... its still not St Johns Ambulances fault by any stretch of the imagination or (and i stress this) Yorkshire Ambulances either.