Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The British Lion

How Can Super League (aka Elstone) Help Struggling Clubs In Super League?

Recommended Posts

Also everyone seems to forget that in their first SL season the Giants got no money from the TV deal as it had already been spent by PSG...

 

The giants have come from the gutter in the late 80s to top the league table, and increased crowds ten fold. 

They've seen crowd numbers drop in recent seasons, but then fans watch winning sides.

Ultimately though fans want to see sides win, in a competitive league - when we have a league that's dominated by 2 sides, with loop fixtures and Thursday night games, it's tough to sell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Roughly broken down into areas of responsibility it should go something like this.

SL = National Profile  & Marketing Strategy, UK TV Negotiations, National Sponsorship, Events Marketing and Sales for all SL (Play-Offs, GF & MW), Expansion Strategy , National Development Strategy

Then

Clubs = Local and Regional Profile & Marketing, Events Marketing & Sales for Club, Club Sponsorship, Player Development @ Club and in Community. & Schools.  

Then

Both = Events Marketing and Sales for all SL (Play-Offs, GF & MW). National Profile.

It breaks down to SL has overall responsibility nationally and clubs  responsibility locally. They both though need to be into that some things could work better if all clubs and governing body work together.

The play-offs should be treated as an event with all clubs, even those not in the play-offs, pushing ticket sales encouraging neutral support. For clubs not in the play-offs to buy into it they need a financial reward for tickets sold through the club for a neutral game. This may seem counter intuitive, but neutrals attending cup-semi finals used to be quite normal.

 

  • Like 2

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It does help if you have a multi millionaire willing to long term tip she'd loads into the club like Mr Davy 

Ken Davey took control of the club some years after the Giants were promoted to the 2nd division, IIRC he wasnt in place long before Superleague began. 

Even then he hasn't always funded up to the full salary cap, Tony Smith only left the Giants for Leeds for example because Ken couldnt guarantee the budget Smith wanted, so while he has been exceptionally generous with his money his biggest contribution has been business sense, something lacking in other clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ant said:

Ken Davey took control of the club some years after the Giants were promoted to the 2nd division, IIRC he wasnt in place long before Superleague began. 

Even then he hasn't always funded up to the full salary cap, Tony Smith only left the Giants for Leeds for example because Ken couldnt guarantee the budget Smith wanted, so while he has been exceptionally generous with his money his biggest contribution has been business sense, something lacking in other clubs.

I wasn't having a dig at the Giants or Mr Davy , I've a lot of respect for them and him , just a previous poster with the usual nonsense 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ant said:

Also everyone seems to forget that in their first SL season the Giants got no money from the TV deal as it had already been spent by PSG...

 

The giants have come from the gutter in the late 80s to top the league table, and increased crowds ten fold. 

They've seen crowd numbers drop in recent seasons, but then fans watch winning sides.

Ultimately though fans want to see sides win, in a competitive league - when we have a league that's dominated by 2 sides, with loop fixtures and Thursday night games, it's tough to sell

The simple question is, if Leigh, widnes, Halifax, Fev, et al could do what Huddersfield did, why haven't they?

The simple fact is they have tried to do so and failed. But that would involve accepting the success of a club like Huddersfield who have been designated as a club you are allowed to criticise and calling out the failures of clubs like leigh and fax and fev who have been designated as clubs who for some reason can have no blame for their situation attached to them whatsoever. 

Edited by scotchy1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, The British Lion said:

Hey all,

I make no secret as an expansionist enthusiast, that I am excited and hopeful that the RFL and SL will do great due diligence, and all being well, see the admittance (through the proper promotion channels) Toronto, and Toulouse.....and who knows beyond that....Ottawa, Montreal, New York (Although my own jury is out on that bid currently).

I have re-assessed my thinking in terms of clubs who just don't seem to be puling in the crowds, or adding anything to SL (in my opinion).

Hope I don't take a flacking!

1st - Huddersfield - yes they produced a great performance on the field, but how can the game or club help to attract more fans?

2nd - Salford - Again producing great performances (and my 2nd favoured team, having lived there for a few years) I really hoped when Koukash came in and the move to the new stadium, their future would kick on. Now it seems they live in a stadium which Sale Sharks have more visability with (fly over the M60 and you'll see the branding, a few thousand very loyal fans, and literally being ran as a community club, losing their best prospect players to others) Now seemingly the coach looking to go elsewhere...... HOW does the game assist these clubs, what would you do?

3rd - London - I LOVE the fact London are in SL again - but will I visit Ealing? Im sorry, no. It just doesn't scream excitement to me (and if it doesn't me, then it won't attract en masse the newbie)

4th - Wakefield - Again, great performing team, who wouldn't want David Fifita in their team?! Chris Chester doing a great job. But are they ever going to attract a crowd bigger than they have?

Then there's the likes of Widnes, Bradford, and Leigh who have always had potential but never quite got there....

Please don't shoot me down for highlighting your club - I want them to do well, as Im sure other RL fans do.

How does the game help your club to the next level?

Is it all in a 'name' of a town? Is it really about 'big city' clubs?

When I think about Warrington, my own club. The Wilderspool days (I started watching in the early 90's as a kid) seeing them go from near distinction and a merger with Widnes, to where we are now....(ok, it's always our year) but the crowds have drastically improved. New stadium - and one which we earn revenue from, that's hugely important. If Moran was to withdraw his funding of the club im not sure how we would fare. The population of Warrington is 220,000 - so crowds of 10,000 - theres still a huge deal of people to reach for!

I guess my question is - what criteria is needed to help clubs struggling to be exciting, and profitable clubs who add value to the SL?

Is it purely down to the club? Or, does SL now have a responsibility to help bring them up? What would you do?

If we signed three/four key players ( we have lots of salary cap left)....got to play offs or a semi final of CC we'd be back having 4000 plus potential crowds within a year (not at ET I know)....more success- a final or dare I say a title and the sky could be the limit....would take an investor willing to part with plenty for players and marketing but London could easily be back up to Fulham/Branson days support

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, daz39 said:

Pardon me for turning it ito a 'my dad's bigger than your dad' scenario but you state 

Yet you are advocating Huddersfield are a nothing club but surely by using your logic where we HAVE gone bust and almost extinct twice, with crowds in the hundreds in a ground that was condemned more or less and fighting back from the 3rd tier in that same period you started watching your club ( who have always been a top flight club with thousands in attendance)  to becoming League Leaders less than 20 years later with crowds of 6-8000 from 6-800 is more of an achievement and shows that the Huddersfield club has started way behind clubs like Warrington and have been their equal there or thereabouts in recent times ?

I could turn your theory on it's head and say clubs like Huddersfield have achieved more than clubs like Wire since the early 90's simply due to the journey we've had to take.

 

Daz39

You've done exactly what I hoped you wouldn't do....take offence. And I apologise if so.

Your club has had an AMAZING journey from the echelons of the bottom tier to SL. Great achievement! I applaud it.

Yes - you were 'League Leaders' and even memorably knocked the Wire out of the play-off's years ago which was gutting for me.

I WANT  a successful Huudersfield in SL. 

My question is - how do you build your fanbase? And for the rest of SL. Bcos a half empty facility is not attractive to speccies on the TV. Sorry bud, just speaking truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

That poses the question though, does the visibility of the league drive the opportunities for the clubs, or does the visibility of the clubs drive the opportunities for the league? 

 

On another thread someone pointed out that there are two competitive basketball teams in London. I had no idea. I will take a guess the Basketball guys don't know there are two London RL teams in the Leagues, as well as a lot of amateur ones?

Anything that can be done to give RL a higher profile nationally will benefit everyone.

RU Prem have sold their games to BT Sport, however they put out some games via Channel 5 to defray costs and offer a shop window taster to viewers. Sky don't do this, it is all behind a pay wall. Luckily the Challenge Cup is tracked by the BBC.

For RU, Team England seem to be a phenomena, more people would go to a Twickenham England match, than a typical weekend turnout at all the Prem Clubs put together. Could RL build a strong "England" brand in the same way? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Hemel Stag said:

On another thread someone pointed out that there are two competitive basketball teams in London. I had no idea. I will take a guess the Basketball guys don't know there are two London RL teams in the Leagues, as well as a lot of amateur ones?

Anything that can be done to give RL a higher profile nationally will benefit everyone.

RU Prem have sold their games to BT Sport, however they put out some games via Channel 5 to defray costs and offer a shop window taster to viewers. Sky don't do this, it is all behind a pay wall. Luckily the Challenge Cup is tracked by the BBC.

For RU, Team England seem to be a phenomena, more people would go to a Twickenham England match, than a typical weekend turnout at all the Prem Clubs put together. Could RL build a strong "England" brand in the same way? 

To do so, RL would need a national stadium. I wouldn't want us to hold all England games in one place, but you need a national stadium where you can build a home and a base from. I've said before the RFL/SLE should be talking to LUFC to invest in a rebuilt Elland Road. Its the perfect position geographically, and is likely to be the only stadium of size that would take the opportunity (Etihad don't need it, Old Trafford wouldn't take it, St James Park is too far away for regular events, Stadium of Light is in Sunderland) and it has consistently proved that people attend England games there. We also don't do enough to have the need for our own stadium. Doesn't really make sense. 

If we invest x amount for 10 events per year at a the stadium, we keep all ticket sales and concession, then we can go out and sell these Events and build the England brand. Its not necessarily Twickenham that creates the England Brand its having them on tv 10 times a year. England RL play three times a year at most, if it all. 

Create the home stadium, create the events an use that money to build the brand. Not necessarily 10 England matches per year, sadly there aren't enough games to play, but if we can put that up to say 3 or 4 England matches at 'the home stadium' 1 in London, 1 in Lancashire, then we can fill the other events a 9s (maybe an SL 9's and an international 9s), semi-finals, WCC, a season opener etc all cross-subsidising each financially as events and we can build the visibility of the sport. But that's a 10/20/30 year plan. Something we have never done

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best location, if you are thinking 10,20, 30 years ahead, has to be Coventry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/05/2019 at 11:58, scotchy1 said:

which time?

once would be nice.. 

they may play in a park but it has more planning permission and more chance of having something built on it than at least 2 of the super league clubs i can think of. 

We have nearly gone bust once and needed the fans to bale us out due to the stupidity of the board by going full time before the cheque that was to pay for it had come in the post.. idiots yes but still not gone bust. 

Got sold to Huddersfield.. didnt go bust.

Had to re form and build from the of the pyramid upwards... and have won the championship on a couple of occasions.

Had our ground bulldozed without provision for a new one being granted and yes had to play around the place but still going.. 

whether we should be or not is a different matter, whether we add anything is a different argument, whether being in Super league would help is another discussion but we havent been bust IIRC...

I cannot prove a negative so please prove when we have been bust.. not close to but actually bust.

Edited by RP London

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so good I said it twice!

Edited by RP London

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three times ffs

Edited by RP London

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

To do so, RL would need a national stadium. I wouldn't want us to hold all England games in one place, but you need a national stadium where you can build a home and a base from. I've said before the RFL/SLE should be talking to LUFC to invest in a rebuilt Elland Road. Its the perfect position geographically, and is likely to be the only stadium of size that would take the opportunity (Etihad don't need it, Old Trafford wouldn't take it, St James Park is too far away for regular events, Stadium of Light is in Sunderland) and it has consistently proved that people attend England games there. We also don't do enough to have the need for our own stadium. Doesn't really make sense. 

If we invest x amount for 10 events per year at a the stadium, we keep all ticket sales and concession, then we can go out and sell these Events and build the England brand. Its not necessarily Twickenham that creates the England Brand its having them on tv 10 times a year. England RL play three times a year at most, if it all. 

Create the home stadium, create the events an use that money to build the brand. Not necessarily 10 England matches per year, sadly there aren't enough games to play, but if we can put that up to say 3 or 4 England matches at 'the home stadium' 1 in London, 1 in Lancashire, then we can fill the other events a 9s (maybe an SL 9's and an international 9s), semi-finals, WCC, a season opener etc all cross-subsidising each financially as events and we can build the visibility of the sport. But that's a 10/20/30 year plan. Something we have never done

I like the idea of buying into a stadium, for a few 'events' a year. Personally I think we missed a trick with the Olympic stadium considering how cheaply West Ham have got it. Since that ship has sailed I agree a revamped Elland Road makes sense, as would a Docklands stadium in Liverpool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Why Coventry?

Oh I was just sitting on the sidelines and couldn't resist shouting at the participants.

But, there's something going on in Coventry worthy of praise (and support), its a big city, its central and the Midlands is a huge conurbation, largely untapped and as far as the ''heartlands/London'' crowd are concerned, its neutral, so doesn't show favour. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Hemel Stag said:

 

RU Prem have sold their games to BT Sport, however they put out some games via Channel 5 to defray costs and offer a shop window taster to viewers. Sky don't do this, it is all behind a pay wall.

I've always said SL should have 3 or 4 games a year free like the Prem but I suspect SKY are too short sighted to allow it

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

21 posts deleted.  Have fun discussing on-topic.

  • Like 1

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

If we signed three/four key players ( we have lots of salary cap left)....got to play offs or a semi final of CC we'd be back having 4000 plus potential crowds within a year (not at ET I know)....more success- a final or dare I say a title and the sky could be the limit....would take an investor willing to part with plenty for players and marketing but London could easily be back up to Fulham/Branson days support

I hope so that this will be the case in the future. You guys at London need a serious change. I admire massively the long term commitment from your current owner. But, I don't believe it's ever going to help you get over the mark. And, what you're doing currently is brilliant.

Why did Richard Branson withdraw his funding btw all the way back then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, The British Lion said:

I hope so that this will be the case in the future. You guys at London need a serious change. I admire massively the long term commitment from your current owner. But, I don't believe it's ever going to help you get over the mark. And, what you're doing currently is brilliant.

Why did Richard Branson withdraw his funding btw all the way back then?

Branson got bored.....the guys name is mud to me and plenty of us here

We need a new owner- Hughesy is fantastic but getting on and has had enough in my view

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Nothing beats a dictatorship. 

We don’t pretend otherwise. You’re welcome to stay here and post here within our terms and conditions of use. If those don’t suit you then no one is forcing you to stay. We maintain civil standards for the many, not the disruptive few. 


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game should be renamed and rebranded as Rugby 13 or 13. It would set the game apart from RU, it could become a world recognised brand at a stroke. Which other sport uses just a number as its usp. Use what we have, sometimes it isn't complicated. Maybe try to patent this time.

Edited by bar red
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...