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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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Derwent

Derwent

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Catalans Harry, the most successful expansion team we've ever had...

Catalans were as much an expansion team as merging the 3 Cumbrian clubs would be. They were a SL club created to represent a region already steeped in RL. Solid foundations. See the difference ?

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Potentially. But, assuming that P&R stays and is broadly the same as now, then being relegated will always be problematic for a club even in ordinary circumstances. We've had a system recently where it was possible to finish fourth bottom and be relegated whilst the teams below you survive.

I know this is an aside, but that is a complete mis-representation of the system. The season wasn't finished at the end of the 'regular' rounds. 

It's like complaining that you can be SL champions despite finishing 5th, with 4 teams above you not winning the title.

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Robin Evans

Robin Evans

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I know this is an aside, but that is a complete mis-representation of the system. The season wasn't finished at the end of the 'regular' rounds. 

It's like complaining that you can be SL champions despite finishing 5th, with 4 teams above you not winning the title.

Fev were a knock on from winning promotion in 1998 in exactly that scenario

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TheReaper

TheReaper

Posted
Posted

Sounds like a case of ask for a three year exemption, negotiate down to a one year exemption. Ask for travel to be paid individually AND equal distribution of broadcast rights money,  negotiate down to about half of that. 

And I imagine they would have a plan similar to the Aces to play in the UK all season if there are travel restrictions. Which, being tougher for them than all the other teams who get to play at home, would be an argument for the relegation protection. And the trade off for the others being no extra travel costs.

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I know this is an aside, but that is a complete mis-representation of the system. The season wasn't finished at the end of the 'regular' rounds. 

The only substantive difference is that in the mediocre 8s set-up there were three teams as well as you who could go down. In a system where one has protection against relegation for X time, you need to make sure there's one team between you and the immune team.

It doesn't strike me as something that should be a deal breaker.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Derwent said:

Catalans were as much an expansion team as merging the 3 Cumbrian clubs would be. They were a SL club created to represent a region already steeped in RL. Solid foundations. See the difference ?

They were given 3 years exemption from relegation (prior to licensing), see the difference?

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
Just now, Tommygilf said:

They were given 3 years exemption from relegation (prior to licensing), see the difference?

There are multiple examples going back years where we've either not relegated the bottom side, not promoted the top side, fiddled the numbers to alter division make-ups etc.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There are multiple examples going back years where we've either not relegated the bottom side, not promoted the top side, fiddled the numbers to alter division make-ups etc.

Exactly. And its of no surprise that our most successful expansion ever by any metric was assured of its top flight place for at least 3 seasons (though it only needed that assurance in the first).

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They were given 3 years exemption from relegation (prior to licensing), see the difference?

Still doesn't make it right does it?

Just forget your personal preferences for the moment is it a fair system to protect some some relegation whilst others are not?

Can you not see how such as system could be abused? 

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And?

And nothing. We've done it before, we'll do it again, it may be done this time.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Still doesn't make it right does it?

Just forget your personal preferences for the moment is it a fair system to protect some some relegation whilst others are not?

Can you not see how such as system could be abused? 

Its not even on the basis of my personal preferences. It's evidence based proof of how expansion is best achieved in our sport. If that is the aim of having Catalans in the European Super League, then I'd say that does make it right actually?

I mean I really do question how abusing that system would work. They deliberately recruit a weakened team and lose every week? Crowds would plummet which would make no sense financially. They play a load of kids? Great for youth development but yet again would make little sense if they were losing every week. They coast at the end of the season? Doesn't every team when they are able to - Saints v London last year, Leeds, Wire and Wigan only this week? If you suspect some more nefarious dealings would go on I'd suggest its already happened between all English teams anyway.

If you can't see how replacing Wakefield in the super league with Leigh (which is perfectly fine in my eyes) is fundamentally different for the future of Rugby League to replacing Catalans with Featherstone say, I despair. I also suggest that you'll have more fun watching the NCL than any professional sport ever could give you.

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is that in your opinion good or bad,  I remember the times when you were an advocate of P&R but also protectionist for certain clubs, do you honestly believe that is a fair system? 

Yes. 14 team European Super League, 10 English sides, 2 french, 2 wherever else (maybe Canada, maybe Wales, where ever is deemed strategically important). Each national governing body decides how it makes up its members. England can choose P/R, as can France.

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction if they are given excemption , and the Catalans drop out ? 

Just imagine if they're given a six point start in every game.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
Just now, GUBRATS said:

Yet another inane post by your good self , it's getting boring reading them 

How dare you. It took me upwards of sixteen seconds to think of something equally as based in reality as yours.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Blind side johnny

Blind side johnny

Posted
Posted

Will the exclusion of spectators from English sports grounds until April 2021 have any bearings upon the TWP considerations?

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said:

Will the exclusion of spectators from sports grounds until April 2021 have any bearings upon the TWP considerations?

If it's not extensively covered in their business plan then I don't see how it can be taken seriously. (And FWIW, if they don't include how they will, if required, play the entire 2021 season behind closed doors and/or every game away in the UK with some kind of gate receipt sharing then I'd assume they didn't want to be taken seriously.)

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Blind side johnny

Blind side johnny

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

If it's not extensively covered in their business plan then I don't see how it can be taken seriously. (And FWIW, if they don't include how they will, if required, play the entire 2021 season behind closed doors and/or every game away in the UK with some kind of gate receipt sharing then I'd assume they didn't want to be taken seriously.)

I have edited my original for clarity.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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Derwent

Derwent

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

How dare you. It took me upwards of sixteen seconds to think of something equally as based in reality as yours.

His comment was based on reality. It’s perfectly plausible that Toronto could have an exemption and Catalans relegated as the club second from bottom. Weren’t they one game away from relegation a couple of years back ?

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Derwent said:

His comment was based on reality. It’s perfectly plausible that Toronto could have an exemption and Catalans relegated as the club second from bottom. Weren’t they one game away from relegation a couple of years back ?

They were but fgs don't bring up who they beat to stay in SL, nobody needs to go through that again!

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction if they are given excemption , and the Catalans drop out ? 

International spots should be guaranteed and in any case a team with Folau, Maloney and Tomkins in are going to finish in the top half of the table so may as well worry about more realistic things.

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