The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Harry Stottle]

25 minutes ago, Damien said:

Or indeed they simply believed what was said about them getting TV funding once they reached Super League and so they thought there was no need.

Just read that back, thats more like it, nothing official then.

[Man of Kent]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I expect TWP's approach was twofold 1) to prove that they were a valuable member of SL, make headlines, win some games, win people over with the positive experience of Toronto and the crowds they bring; and 2) Keep working on NA tv deals to prove commercial value to SLE. But if not getting central funding was such an issue they wouldn't have spent £5m on wages (and wanted to spend more with dispensations).

3) To sell the club. Surely the exit strategy was to sell to a big Canadian sports cheese pumped up by the Sonny Bill Williams Show at Lamport? But who would want to buy a SBW-less Wolfpack in a Covid world? 

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There you go again, no evidence Damien.

PS look behind you Damien, Tommygilf is stalking you giving a like to all your posts,  it used to be Scotchy that was the light of his eye, but now he's gone?

Chill out H. If you want to look up my debates with scotchy over p/r where you were in agreement with me please feel free. I'm free to like whatever posts I like, didn't realise anyone would take any umbridge?

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just read that back, thats more like it, nothing official then.

Is this really the best you can do Harry? Do you want a full contract of their admittance? Whatever was agreed with the RFL was obviously irrelevant by the time they got to Super League as SLE came into being and had control. I'm not sure what you are finding so difficult to understand.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

You have certainly got awfully petty and condescending these days it has to be said.

Would this be because I don't agree or not a beliver Damien?

Anyway lets agree to disagree, no hard feelings.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Chill out H. If you want to look up my debates with scotchy over p/r where you were in agreement with me please feel free. I'm free to like whatever posts I like, didn't realise anyone would take any umbridge?

Don't worry, it seems to be fine when he and his cronies do it. People in glass houses again.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

3) To sell the club. Surely the exit strategy was to sell to a big Canadian sports cheese pumped up by the Sonny Bill Williams Show at Lamport? But who would want to buy a SBW-less Wolfpack in a Covid world? 

If Covid can bring down some of the huge companies it has already done then I assume it is devastating to many business models. I am not sure Virgin Atlantic and Hayes Travel are that healthy right now. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Damien said:

Don't worry, it seems to be fine when he and his cronies do it. People in glass houses again.

Personally I think they're all sad that the joy of Toronto pulling out turned into ash in their mouths over the Championship being cancelled.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Is this really the best you can do Harry? Do you want a full contract of their admittance? Whatever was agreed with the RFL was obviously irrelevant by the time they got to Super League as SLE came into being and had control. I'm not sure what you are finding so difficult to understand.

Last thing on the subject, if it had been sanctioned you would almost have certainly been qouting that Toronto should be recieving funding, AND I WOULD AGREE, but evidently it wasn't and they haven't, nor do I consider they ever will.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

If Covid can bring down some of the huge companies it has already done then I assume it is devastating to many business models. I am not sure Virgin Atlantic and Hayes Travel are that healthy right now. 

Don't you know Covid only applies to businesses like that and the NRL and other sports leagues? It basically applies to everyone but Toronto.

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If Covid can bring down some of the huge companies it has already done then I assume it is devastating to many business models. I am not sure Virgin Atlantic and Hayes Travel are that healthy right now. 

Absolutely. Covid is incredibly unfortunate for many otherwise viable businesses. 

Whether Toronto was a viable business is another matter.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Chill out H. If you want to look up my debates with scotchy over p/r where you were in agreement with me please feel free. I'm free to like whatever posts I like, didn't realise anyone would take any umbridge?

If you think there was any malice in what I wrote Tommy, then clearly you don't  know me, what is that phrased you have used 'Chill out'

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

3) To sell the club. Surely the exit strategy was to sell to a big Canadian sports cheese pumped up by the Sonny Bill Williams Show at Lamport? But who would want to buy a SBW-less Wolfpack in a Covid world? 

I don't buy that tbh, I don't think this is a smart business decision if the aim was to build a club and make a profit off it. Particularly when you can just go to the RFL and setup a new team relatively easily.

It's sport, plenty of rich people enjoy spending their money on it, its addictive.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

If you think there was any malice in what I wrote Tommy, then clearly you don't  know me, what is that phrased you have used 'Chill out'

You said Scotchy, of all the posters was the apple of my eye or whatever, with no factual basis. Seems an odd thing to bring up. May I point you to your previous posts pining over parksiders absence. 

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Absolutely. Covid is incredibly unfortunate for many otherwise viable businesses. 

Whether Toronto was a viable business is another matter.

Did it need to be at this stage? It was a start up. We all know what they were trying to achieve. This is below even the worst disaster planning modelling they would have done.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Personally I think they're all sad that the joy of Toronto pulling out turned into ash in their mouths over the Championship being cancelled.

Not really I would have loved the opportunity for a Championship club to replace them in a fair contest as the league structures were designed, sadly the pandemic put a stop to that, if they were not relegated by their own efforts then fair enough. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I don't buy that tbh, I don't think this is a smart business decision if the aim was to build a club and make a profit off it. Particularly when you can just go to the RFL and setup a new team relatively easily.

It's sport, plenty of rich people enjoy spending their money on it, its addictive.

100%. My friends dad is/was a part owner at a Super League club, said to me "no one gets involved in a sports club to make money".

That may be different in the USA, but here not so.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not really I would have loved the opportunity for a Championship club to replace them in a fair contest as the league structures were designed, sadly the pandemic put a stop to that, if they were not relegated by their own efforts then fair enough. 

Ok H

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You said Scotchy, of all the posters was the apple of my eye or whatever, with no factual basis. Seems an odd thing to bring up. May I point you to your previous posts pining over parksiders absence. 

Yes I miss Parky no doubt about that Tommy.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Did it need to be at this stage? It was a start up. We all know what they were trying to achieve. This is below even the worst disaster planning modelling they would have done.

Yep. Whilst I have issues with how TWP dealt with this at the end - I believe they were trying to use the VISA issue as a cover, but the RFL managed to call their bluff and get that resolved - but ultimately their model has not been shown as a failure. 

Their model may not be able to sustain a once in a century shock, but let's be honest here, neither can the rest of the game, even those that start next year will be in far more debt and will be feeling the effects of this for the next decade or so, with some going by the wayside during that period.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yep. Whilst I have issues with how TWP dealt with this at the end - I believe they were trying to use the VISA issue as a cover, but the RFL managed to call their bluff and get that resolved - but ultimately their model has not been shown as a failure. 

Their model may not be able to sustain a once in a century shock, but let's be honest here, neither can the rest of the game, even those that start next year will be in far more debt and will be feeling the effects of this for the next decade or so, with some going by the wayside during that period.

Yep it is really half the story and Sky, now they have sport back, will probably be looking to squeeze the nads of sports which have nowhere to turn. I'm not saying they will shaft SL, but they will shave off a lot of the trimmings and cut back on the guarantees for sure. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep it is really half the story and Sky, now they have sport back, will probably be looking to squeeze the nads of sports which have nowhere to turn. I'm not saying they will shaft SL, but they will shave off a lot of the trimmings and cut back on the guarantees for sure. 

The TV ratings over the next couple of months could be our saviour:)

 

Paul

[Man of Kent]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't buy that tbh, I don't think this is a smart business decision if the aim was to build a club and make a profit off it. Particularly when you can just go to the RFL and setup a new team relatively easily.

It's sport, plenty of rich people enjoy spending their money on it, its addictive.

Oh hang on, I remember now. Wasn't there something about an IPO and Sonny Bill given shares in the club? There must be an exit strategy for Argyle other than burn $100 bills in perpetuity. 

[Loup]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Loup, on that statement I would say, irrespective of whether the club being visited is Toronto, Ottawa, NY or some other exotic place that had a RL team and supposedly stayed in SL for a number of years would they travel?  

Yes I believe that people would  have the desire and want to follow their team to those places, but such is life when it is accomplished and "ticked off" so to speak as "done that" I don't think that keep asking the same people at the various clubs would keep on making the trip, season after season, and if there was multiple teams in SL that would be a choice of where to go for many, finances are a big thing to consider some will have to save a long time or pay back for quite a while after taking such trips. 

So, yes in my opinion there is a huge potential tourism opportunity initially, but I wouldn't expect it to last that long, not in the sense of huge.

Harry, if your answer is always "It might rain", then there would never be any picnics. I'm well aware of the travel costs (I make the trip myself several times a year in non-pandemic times). And have been impressed and delighted by the number of fans who came over from UK during L1 and Championship.

But your point that interest in fan trips to Toronto, Ottawa and/or New York wouldn't last long is a core example of rugby league's problems ...  inadvertently you are saying that there will only ever be the current cohort of fans in England and that no new, young fans will ever be attracted to the game and become new customers for a fun away trip.

[Dave T]

The one thing that does seem rather odd about TWP's approach here is that they really could have gone down the route of trimming as many costs as possible, agreeing pay cuts, offloading players where possible, and using loans as was proposed and seeing the season out i survival mode ready for next year, as relegation was scrapped. 

We know that TWP has been losing money since it started, and for a relatively modest loss in the scheme of things they would have automatically retained their Super League spot to go again next year. Even if they didn't get a penny income, they would possibly lose around £7m this year, before you trim any costs to reduce that number.

To potentially give up the spot as easy as they have, it suggests that Argyle has financial issues and can't cover these relatively modest losses (in sporting world terms).