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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

John Drake

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Oldbear

Oldbear

Posted
Posted

The one question I keep coming back to is that prior to inception Eric Perez often quoted that getting to SL was a 5 year plan, however year 2 saw team strengthening and a hard push to SL which was derailed by London winning the play off final. That result saw a change in head coach, more team strengthening and another race to the top, this time successful. Now I know Perez left after year 1 but what was the haste to get there.? Was Mr Argyle so desperate to get to the top or did someone in the RFL suggest that if it did take 5 years to get to SL that may be a year too late as a new TV deal would mean a closed shop and Mr Argyle was worried that he may be on the outside looking in, after all Lamport is a fun venue but facility wise is not much better than Cas, plus there’s no academy. It would be nice to know exactly what was said by the RFL, if indeed anything was said, because if the race to SL hadn’t been so hasty then maybe some of the administrative problems which seem to have plagued the Wolfpack may have been ironed out, after all wasn’t that the reason for starting in the lower leagues in the first place? Had the Wolfpack been built more gradually then perhaps they would be more stable, would have not overpaid so much for players and might have done some serious youth development.

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, dboy said:

It's not difficult to understand - the pandemic means they cannot play a single game at home this season.

That means they have NO income streams.

UK clubs still have TV money, govt furlough, govt recovery funding, £16m govt loan, sponsors who are largely pledged to continue support, £1000 per staff member retained after furlough...and even with that, UK clubs are struggling.

How do you think TWP could survive this season with no income?

2 months ago I suggested the RFL/SL announce a 10 team 9 round comp for all UK based SL clubs as any international travel wouldn't be viable , Toronto and Catalans would just hibernate till next year , no P and R and the Championship also cancel this season , the 21 season to start on Boxing Day to give everybody a less compacted season to prepare for the WC 

Trying to run a transcontinental competition with no actual players from every country involved is always going to be problematic , with or without a pandemic. , That's why nobody does it 

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

The one question I keep coming back to is that prior to inception Eric Perez often quoted that getting to SL was a 5 year plan, however year 2 saw team strengthening and a hard push to SL which was derailed by London winning the play off final. That result saw a change in head coach, more team strengthening and another race to the top, this time successful. Now I know Perez left after year 1 but what was the haste to get there.? Was Mr Argyle so desperate to get to the top or did someone in the RFL suggest that if it did take 5 years to get to SL that may be a year too late as a new TV deal would mean a closed shop and Mr Argyle was worried that he may be on the outside looking in, after all Lamport is a fun venue but facility wise is not much better than Cas, plus there’s no academy. It would be nice to know exactly what was said by the RFL, if indeed anything was said, because if the race to SL hadn’t been so hasty then maybe some of the administrative problems which seem to have plagued the Wolfpack may have been ironed out, after all wasn’t that the reason for starting in the lower leagues in the first place? Had the Wolfpack been built more gradually then perhaps they would be more stable, would have not overpaid so much for players and might have done some serious youth development.

Part of the reason for speed was, I think, to keep League 1 and Championship teams happy that they would only be in a league with Toronto for one season before they moved on.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted

I suggest Mr Hudgel wants the sport to expand , is , become bigger , that doesn't just mean geographical , more fans watching more players , more kids playing the sport , more interest within the areas the sport is already played 

Flying 20 lads based in Leigh , Warrington and Rochdale to Toronto for 13 games isn't necessarily ' expansion ' 

But feel free to knock the bloke who is tipping large amounts of his bed earned into the sport where it is played and loved and has been for decades 

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Man of Kent

Man of Kent

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

The one question I keep coming back to is that prior to inception Eric Perez often quoted that getting to SL was a 5 year plan, however year 2 saw team strengthening and a hard push to SL which was derailed by London winning the play off final. That result saw a change in head coach, more team strengthening and another race to the top, this time successful. Now I know Perez left after year 1 but what was the haste to get there.? Was Mr Argyle so desperate to get to the top or did someone in the RFL suggest that if it did take 5 years to get to SL that may be a year too late as a new TV deal would mean a closed shop and Mr Argyle was worried that he may be on the outside looking in, after all Lamport is a fun venue but facility wise is not much better than Cas, plus there’s no academy. It would be nice to know exactly what was said by the RFL, if indeed anything was said, because if the race to SL hadn’t been so hasty then maybe some of the administrative problems which seem to have plagued the Wolfpack may have been ironed out, after all wasn’t that the reason for starting in the lower leagues in the first place? Had the Wolfpack been built more gradually then perhaps they would be more stable, would have not overpaid so much for players and might have done some serious youth development.

More likely than some secret grand RFL masterplan (this is British rugby league we’re talking about) is the shock of losing to London in the 2018 MPG caused Toronto to overspend to ‘guarantee’ promotion (and insodoing hamstring themselves).

Why so desperate to get in Super League? To sell the club to the Rogers people or whoever, perhaps?

In any case, slowly slowly catchy monkey isn’t Toronto’s style. They were the #RugbyDisruptors coming to shake up Super League and all that jazz. 

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Loup said:

Given the anticipated number of away fans that we'd been told to expect at Lamport in 2020, there's a huge potential tourism partnership and club opportunity sitting right there.

Hi Loup, on that statement I would say, irrespective of whether the club being visited is Toronto, Ottawa, NY or some other exotic place that had a RL team and supposedly stayed in SL for a number of years would they travel?  

Yes I believe that people would  have the desire and want to follow their team to those places, but such is life when it is accomplished and "ticked off" so to speak as "done that" I don't think that keep asking the same people at the various clubs would keep on making the trip, season after season, and if there was multiple teams in SL that would be a choice of where to go for many, finances are a big thing to consider some will have to save a long time or pay back for quite a while after taking such trips. 

So, yes in my opinion there is a huge potential tourism opportunity initially, but I wouldn't expect it to last that long, not in the sense of huge.

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

I reckon that their chances of getting any TV money in SL are approximately zero The implications of dropping down to the Championship are also that they would want some of the distribution money, which must be highly unlikely.

My prediction is that they will get a reasonably polite hearing then, when the knives have been wielded behind closed doors, they will "hang up the shield".

What about Ottawa Johnny?

If Toronto are to be allowed "funding" why not Ottawa also be allowed a share the equal to their contemporaries in the same division, then NY if they come into the picture, should be treated the same. 

I see this decision re Toronto as a "Kramer v Kramer" moment it will set the precedent for other and future teams in the America's,  SL and the RFL should be taking this into consideration on their deliberations.

As I have said previously Ottawa was to soon Toronto was not the finished article.

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What about Ottawa Johnny?

If Toronto are to be allowed "funding" why not Ottawa also be allowed a share the equal to their contemporaries in the same division, then NY if they come into the picture, should be treated the same. 

I see this decision re Toronto as a "Kramer v Kramer" moment it will set the precedent for other and future teams in the America's,  SL and the RFL should be taking this into consideration on their deliberations.

As I have said previously Ottawa was to soon Toronto was not the finished article.

The precedent point is important. 

Without any kind of strategy we are sleepwalking into a 12 team SL that has 7 UK teams, potentially within 5 to 10 years, with £40m of UK funding going overseas over a 5 year window. 

That may be an accapetable plan, but it has to be a plan. 

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Damien said:

Toronto's existence the talk was always no funding until they reached Super League.

That was on these pages Damien, I challenge you to come up with sonething official that says otherwise and Toronto would be e joying funding at any time.

If it was so Mr Argyle would be using that argument, wouldn't he?

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes but they got round it and are playing, watch the TV. 

Rather unwittingly you are backing up the case that has been made that, they being the NRL, did all they could do ensure games were played and paid money to do so. You have now created a circular argument. 

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That was on these pages Damien, I challenge you to come up with sonething official that says otherwise and Toronto would be e joying funding at any time.

If it was so Mr Argyle would be using that argument, wouldn't he?

I saw it in numerous reports and interviews. I am quite content that it was said and that the RFL didnt correct it. If you are not then that is up to you.

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Man of Kent

Man of Kent

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Damien said:

I often disagree with Wilkin but that's a damn good assessment and clarifies a few things regarding issues with late pay, with just the one issue around Christmas. 

Even though their CEO has said they haven't been paid for June (and still haven't, apparently)?

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

John Wilkin's take on things: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/jon-wilkin-life-toronto-wolfpack-22396719

"It’s been disorganised at times but we’ve got clubs with 125 years of history that aren’t organised"

As ever in the RL family, throw stones and you'll realise that some of you live in glass houses.

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

And you believe him?

I think its a pretty fair assessment with criticisms and positives from a player who has been there a while. Obviously I'm sure you find Kallum Watkins wife much more believable.

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Damien said:

I saw it in numerous reports and interviews. I am quite content that it was said and that the RFL didnt correct it. If you are not then that is up to you.

Let's just take two people at this moment in time Mr Argyle and Mr Hudgell in relation to this discussion, Mr Argyle says he hopes going forward to have SL funding, if he had assurances that he would get any funding never mind just SL funding he would be making that statement for all to see. Mr Hudgell on the other hand states quite catagorically that it was agreed that Toronto on entry into the RFL would fund themselves for perpetuity.

Now being a solicitor I would suggest Mr Hudgell would be very wary of telling blatant lies publicly wouldn't you, what reason would he have to do so if it wasn't true.

I suggest the numerous reports and interviews - incidently who was being interviewed -- was nothing by or from anyone in an official capacity, being so the RFL had no reason to correct anything.

If the RFL visited these pages they would be the biggest contributor correcting unofficial reports and statements.

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