The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Liverpool Rover]

If the executive committee have done proper due diligence, rather than just keep looking for excuses not to have them back, and are not convinced about the future of the club then it is right that they are not let back in.

However I’m not sure that Elstone ever wanted them in and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of clubs who will vote against the Wolfpack’s return will be those who never wanted them in either and would vote against no matter what.

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

When was the last Super League club to go into administration or not fulfil their fixtures?

Bradford 2012 & 2014 

[Hela Wigmen]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Well salford haven't fulfilled a fixture this week and the last Super League club to go into administration was Bradford or Wakefield? Though obviously a fair few have after being relegated.

So very few examples of such, then? 

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Rover said:

If the executive committee have done proper due diligence, rather than just keep looking for excuses not to have them back, and are not convinced about the future of the club then it is right that they are not let back in.

However I’m not sure that Elstone ever wanted them in and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of clubs who will vote against the Wolfpack’s return will be those who never wanted them in either and would vote against no matter what.

Correct on all counts.

We don't have access to the information Elstone et al have. Its not a transparent process.

[Davo5]

8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Scenario. 

Village team that is in good nick, good balance sheet, posting a surplus win GF and who's income streams can more than match SL gets promoted

OR

A current SL club that is on its ar se, struggling in all aspects of operation.... poor team, ###### ground... skint...

Which do you keep???

 

The first one,Get Toulouse in,although it is a bit bigger than a village.

[Pulga]

2 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Scenario. 

Village team that is in good nick, good balance sheet, posting a surplus win GF and who's income streams can more than match SL gets promoted

OR

A current SL club that is on its ar se, struggling in all aspects of operation.... poor team, ###### ground... skint...

Which do you keep???

 

Alternatively,  current SL clubs abandon a season, havent paid players and who's finance plans for next year are crapola.... do you keep them... and if we keep them what will the impact be on the rest of the game??

Joke questions??

 

 

None of the above. Raise the bar.

The English system is backwards. P&R needs to go.

I'm involved with my local club. I sit in on board meetings etc. I live in a town of about 6k residents. The problems they and SL face are eerily similar. We play against teams that are from towns and cities that are as big as many SL teams. We don't have the right to play in the NRL. We don't have the population, the sponsors etc. To suggest as much would be a joke. But for some reason in England, it would be completely fine.

Selling meat pies and beer is not a strategy to keep a professional club running.

SL needs minimum criteria (and to enforce it) for all clubs, not just Toronto.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Pulga said:

None of the above. Raise the bar.

The English system is backwards. P&R needs to go.

I'm involved with my local club. I sit in on board meetings etc. I live in a town of about 6k residents. The problems they and SL face are eerily similar. We play against teams that are from towns and cities that are as big as many SL teams. We don't have the right to play in the NRL. We don't have the population, the sponsors etc. To suggest as much would be a joke. But for some reason in England, it would be completely fine.

Selling meat pies and beer is not a strategy to keep a professional club running.

SL needs minimum criteria (and to enforce it) for all clubs, not just Toronto.

So you want me to do what exactly to grow RL ?

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, Pulga said:

None of the above. Raise the bar.

The English system is backwards. P&R needs to go.

I'm involved with my local club. I sit in on board meetings etc. I live in a town of about 6k residents. The problems they and SL face are eerily similar. We play against teams that are from towns and cities that are as big as many SL teams. We don't have the right to play in the NRL. We don't have the population, the sponsors etc. To suggest as much would be a joke. But for some reason in England, it would be completely fine.

Selling meat pies and beer is not a strategy to keep a professional club running.

SL needs minimum criteria (and to enforce it) for all clubs, not just Toronto.

If you did that, SL would consist of about 5-6 clubs

[Pulga]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you want me to do what exactly to grow RL ?

Hold those who let the standards of RL slip in England accountable. That's all you can do.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Again we have folk believing that RL is a universally loved game that will thrive wherever a club is plonked. Truth is that 125 years of history say otherwise and it's really not massively popular even in its UK heartlands.

[Pulga]

1 minute ago, Robin Evans said:

If you did that, SL would consist of about 5-6 clubs

Exactly. Do it for all or do it for none. You can't single out clubs like the Wolfpack in a season such as we're having.

[Robin Evans]

Just now, Pulga said:

Exactly. Do it for all or do it for none. You can't single out clubs like the Wolfpack in a season such as we're having.

But you are on a spurious argument.

TWP is a special case for a whole host of reasons.

If the press is correct as reported,  TWP are not being rejected because of standards. They are being sidewinded because their business plan is sheeite.

I don't know whether it is or not. Only livolsi and SL clubs making that decision have that info

[Hela Wigmen]

12 minutes ago, Pulga said:

None of the above. Raise the bar.

The English system is backwards. P&R needs to go.

I'm involved with my local club. I sit in on board meetings etc. I live in a town of about 6k residents. The problems they and SL face are eerily similar. We play against teams that are from towns and cities that are as big as many SL teams. We don't have the right to play in the NRL. We don't have the population, the sponsors etc. To suggest as much would be a joke. But for some reason in England, it would be completely fine.

Selling meat pies and beer is not a strategy to keep a professional club running.

SL needs minimum criteria (and to enforce it) for all clubs, not just Toronto.

I’m a Saints fan, the last thing I want is a 6 team league (and I’m being generous on six), which is exactly what we’d get if we strictly enforced a criteria that all clubs must hit.

We ended up with a plethora of teams hitting some criteria but not all under the licensing system that Super League enforced before and a handful of clubs outside of Super League scratching their head because they hit some criteria but not all and weren’t admitted into the league at the first stage or when the second stage come around and teams who were in the fold hadn’t ticked any more boxes since the introduction of the criteria. You loosen your level of strictness and you get the standards we’ve become accustomed to while leaving plenty disenchanted outside of the fold. 

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Exactly. Do it for all or do it for none. You can't single out clubs like the Wolfpack in a season such as we're having.

You can. They’re a case of their own. Any transatlantic side will be judged very differently from any UK based team and that’s a given. 

[Robin Evans]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

You can. They’re a case of their own. Any transatlantic side will be judged very differently from any UK based team and that’s a given. 

I cant for the life of me see why this wouldn't be the case

[Pulga]

8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

But you are on a spurious argument.

TWP is a special case for a whole host of reasons.

If the press is correct as reported,  TWP are not being rejected because of standards. They are being sidewinded because their business plan is sheeite.

I don't know whether it is or not. Only livolsi and SL clubs making that decision have that info

I'd love to see the business plans that they are being held up against.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Again we have folk believing that RL is a universally loved game that will thrive wherever a club is plonked. Truth is that 125 years of history say otherwise and it's really not massively popular even in its UK heartlands.

How many times has that actually been done properly and in particular been well funded? Toronto were massively popular by RL standards based on attendances and it took Covid-19 and funding issues to scupper it. Celtic Crusaders did some great things until the funding dried up. Catalans were well backed and planned for and have grown and thrived.

Yes the game is littered with failed attempts and the likes of Scarborough and Gateshead but the vast majority of these were done on a wing and a prayer and barely had any money from the first day. They are no barometer to judge expansion.

[Robin Evans]

Just now, Pulga said:

I'd love to see the business plans that they are being held up against.

Aye, so would I.....  but there's the rub.

Neither you or I have that info.

But I guess business continuity and paying players remained in the contingency business plans of all other clubs in SL.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I'd love to see the business plans that they are being held up against.

Which other club pulled out of the competition mid season ?

[Pulga]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which other club pulled out of the competition mid season ?

And which other clubs received no central funding?

[Robin Evans]

Just now, Pulga said:

And which other clubs received no central funding?

Which is what twp agreed to is it not?

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Pulga said:

And which other clubs received no central funding?

Don't get me wrong , that decision was appalling , and as much as I see criticism of David Argyle on here , you won't see any from me , now or in the past , somebody who has put the money he has into the sport deserves everybody's respect , but those were the cards dealt , if you read what I've put earlier today they should in my opinion be ' frozen ' as a SL club till April 2021 , when their reinstatement should be looked at again for season 22

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Which is what twp agreed to is it not?

What has happened this season is a once in a lifetime event and yes they may have agreed to not having central funding income, and they may well have believed their business model could have sustained that, but I don't think anyone foresaw Covid-19 and having absolutely no income for a year. That is unprecedented and obviously leaves them more vulnerable than everyone else.

[Robin Evans]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

What has happened this season is a once in a lifetime event and yes they may have agreed to not having central funding income, and they may well have believed their business model could have sustained that, but I don't think anyone foresaw Covid-19 and having absolutely no income for a year. That is unprecedented and obviously leaves them more vulnerable than everyone else.

Of course it does. But Pulga, a twp fan, was arguing that all should be treated the same...... when thats clearly not the case.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

How many times has that actually been done properly and in particular been well funded? Toronto were massively popular by RL standards based on attendances and it took Covid-19 and funding issues to scupper it. Celtic Crusaders did some great things until the funding dried up. Catalans were well backed and planned for and have grown and thrived.

Yes the game is littered with failed attempts and the likes of Scarborough and Gateshead but the vast majority of these were done on a wing and a prayer and barely had any money from the first day. They are no barometer to judge expansion.

Aside from the question of where the funding shortfall would actually come from neither TWP nor CC are glowing examples. Unpaid bills and wages (long before Covid) and dodgy visas aren't exactly what I'd say is how to do expansion well.