When Wigan dominated

[Wigan Riversider]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

We have a home of our own. 

Sadly I believe that we are just tenants in a soccer stadium. 

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

On 11/06/2020 at 20:21, Oldbear said:

I still think that the Wigan v Manly game in 87 was the best game I ever saw live. 37,000 at Central Park, the atmosphere was electric. That stadium was a real dump but there was something special about it when there was a big crowd on. In the end it was good that one team dominating came to an end, but I wished it would have been purely because everyone else got a lot better and catching Wigan, instead of everyone else getting a little better and Wigan falling back to the pack.

A load of us came over  from Oldham to watch that game. Had to sit on the top of the toilet walls to get a partial view. Then came half time, well the steam that came up, and the smell!!!!

[Wigan Riversider]

40 minutes ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

A load of us came over  from Oldham to watch that game. Had to sit on the top of the toilet walls to get a partial view. Then came half time, well the steam that came up, and the smell!!!!

Did you ever go to Thrum Hall

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Sadly I believe that we are just tenants in a soccer stadium. 

On a long lease, like most companies, most local and central government offices, and an increasing proportion of the population. It's still home.

[Wigan Riversider]

I stood right at the top of the Wigan end at Wembley stadium in 1988 v Halifax. 

The view of the game was magnificent. 

The smell of urine when we descended from the back was gross. 

To the Fev fan who started this thread: Wigan were lucky to ever be on that 8 year Wembley winning run as Shaun Edwards' reaction to being tripped against Bradford Northern was 'a touch theatrical' according to Des Lynam on BBC in the build up to the 1988 final. Wigan won 2-0 v the Steam Pigs and even in 1993 a Wire fan told me that Wigan's Wembley run was as a result of that lucky moment by Shaun Edwards' theatrics. 

What can I say

[Futtocks]

6 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

I stood right at the top of the Wigan end at Wembley stadium in 1988 v Halifax. 

The view of the game was magnificent. 

The smell of urine when we descended from the back was gross. 

To the Fev fan who started this thread: Wigan were lucky to ever be on that 8 year Wembley winning run as Shaun Edwards' reaction to being tripped against Bradford Northern was 'a touch theatrical' according to Des Lynam on BBC in the build up to the 1988 final. Wigan won 2-0 v the Steam Pigs and even in 1993 a Wire fan told me that Wigan's Wembley run was as a result of that lucky moment by Shaun Edwards' theatrics. 

What can I say

Strip Wigan of every single title they've ever won, because in each instance there was some bloke somewhere who reckoned they were a bunch of wrong 'uns who were probably up to something.

[Wigan Riversider]

5 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Strip Wigan of every single title they've ever won, because in each instance there was some bloke somewhere who reckoned they were a bunch of wrong 'uns who were probably up to something.

Let's see what Trojan has to say

[Wigan Riversider]

12 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Strip Wigan of every single title they've ever won, because in each instance there was some bloke somewhere who reckoned they were a bunch of wrong 'uns who were probably up to something.

On the 'wrong uns' note I went to Fev last December for the first time in 25 years for the Yorkshire amateur rl finals. Twas a lovely afternoon. 

However, the poor PA man reminded me of a Monty Python sketch. He repeatedly requested and was totally ignored by all smokers present(not me) that they mustn't smoke as the ground was a non smoking venue. They would be ejected if they smoked. They were not ejected, he was frustrated and I had a lovely afternoon watching live rl. 

Perhaps it was somehow Wigan's period of dominance that indirectly caused those smokers present, wrong uns, to ignore the no smoking instructions in the ground

Or perhaps its just me.

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

Strip Wigan of every single title they've ever won, because in each instance there was some bloke somewhere who reckoned they were a bunch of wrong 'uns who were probably up to something.

As a Featherstone fan of many years who was at the game when Bibb's try was disallowed, which was very harsh at the time, but Wigan were a great side full of great players. Whenever they came to town you just hoped you might be able to turn them over. Unfortunately you have to be of a certain age to remember them now, or were lucky enough to see them play. We are in a different era now, but how good were the likes of Hamson, Gill, Bell, Offiah, Hanley, Edwards, Gregory, Goodway, Betts and the rest.

[fieldofclothofgold]

When Wigan dominated all those Wembley wins and Championship wins WCC 36k at CP ,good crowds and finished up in severe financial difficulties and Leeds tried to follow them and won nothing ,but still finished up skint . Thankfully they got saved and didn't have the ignominy of having to move to Elland road like paupers 

[Padge]

11 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

When Wigan dominated all those Wembley wins and Championship wins WCC 36k at CP ,good crowds and finished up in severe financial difficulties and Leeds tried to follow them and won nothing ,but still finished up skint . Thankfully they got saved and didn't have the ignominy of having to move to Elland road like paupers 

WIgan did not finish up in severe financial difficulties, they finished up with people in charge who the bank would not trust, but the bank was willing to continue business as usual if the directors who had been accused in court of serious misdemeanors were removed.

One man's stubbornness to not allow Dave Whelan to own Central Park was the only reason it was sold off to Tesco.

Stop peddling the myth.

[fieldofclothofgold]

40 minutes ago, Padge said:

WIgan did not finish up in severe financial difficulties, they finished up with people in charge who the bank would not trust, but the bank was willing to continue business as usual if the directors who had been accused in court of serious misdemeanors were removed.

One man's stubbornness to not allow Dave Whelan to own Central Park was the only reason it was sold off to Tesco.

Stop peddling the myth.

Ok Padge I know how knowledgeable you are . Leeds were almost down at ER though . Oh and I'm not purposely myth peddling to dig at Wigan that is what I was led to believe.  Say no more 

[Padge]

10 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Ok Padge I know how knowledgeable you are . Leeds were almost down at ER though 

I don't know as much about Leeds as I do of Wigan, but I do know that Wigan "allowed" players to move on towards the end of their careers. Players with a couple of seasons could then get contracts that Wigan no longer thought they were worth by gullible clubs like, possibly Leeds.

[fieldofclothofgold]

25 minutes ago, Padge said:

I don't know as much about Leeds as I do of Wigan, but I do know that Wigan "allowed" players to move on towards the end of their careers. Players with a couple of seasons could then get contracts that Wigan no longer thought they were worth by gullible clubs like, possibly Leeds.

Look I have nothing against Wigan at all ,nothing whatsoever.  I merely made a contribution to this thread on what I had been led to believe and Leeds RLFC is not that personal to me either 

[Padge]

10 hours ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Look I have nothing against Wigan at all ,nothing whatsoever.  I merely made a contribution to this thread on what I had been led to believe and Leeds RLFC is not that personal to me either 

And I was merely pointing out that a canny WIgan board were offloading players past their best, sometimes (but often not) for a juicy transfer fee to clubs that were signing them on their past reputation and not on current form and fitness.

It was a simple formula, with 12 months of a players contract to go open negotiations on the next one, offer a vastly reduced sum, agent stamps feet and says, I can do better elsewhere, Wigan say off you pops, agent touts player, finds better terms. WIgan then say you can go now, the fee is ££££. Wigan offload big contract, collect cash, talk to next player on target list.

 

[Padge]

In the season in question 89/90 Wigan had Steve Hampson banned 3 times for a total of 14 games, Dean Bell got a 10 match ban and Ian Lucas handed an 8 match ban. Yep they were going easy on Wigan.

 

[Damien]

I think some people talk about Wigan during their dominance like it was one side who somehow cheated to get to and stay at the top. In reality they did little different to many of the other teams but did it first and did it better.

The early teams certainly did not get to the top by being full time or spending their way to the top in comparison to the other teams. I'd say two fantastic coaching appointments in Graham Lowe and later John Monie were the key. In an era where the game had fallen way behind Australia these two appointments saw the club make huge advancements in training and professionalism. Yes some big signings were made, as did every club at this time, and Wigan certainly were not unique in this. Wigan may have signed Hanley and Gregory but the likes of Leeds signed Crookes and Schofield for big money too. Widnes built a fantastic team too by spending big with the likes of Davies, Tait, Moriarty from Union. Plenty of the players were not full time either and had day jobs.

Wigan still had players like Nicky Kiss, Ian Potter, Henderson Gill and Brian Case who were with the club when they were also rans. This was supplemented by young, Wigan born players coming through, the likes of Edwards and Wane, and low key signings like Hampson and co. The signing of low key, little known players was the case throughout their dominance with players like McGinty, Panapa. Cowie, Hall, O'Connor etc far from stars or big names. The key was Wigan got everything else right at just the right time too and built a winning culture and as I said the coaches take a lot of credit for this in my opinion.

In the years after Widnes demise teams like Leeds continued to spend big, signing John Gallagher from RU in 1990 for huge money which he said was too good to be true and even signing Hanley from Wigan in 1991 for £250,000. Teams like Castleford also spent big money on the likes of Graham Steadman and built a very good team with Nikau, Blackmore and co. Saints and Warrington spent some big money too. Wigan certainly weren't alone in what they spent. For every Quinnell that they signed from RU, Saints signed a Gibbs, Widnes a Davies or Warrington a Bateman. Wigan had just got everything else right too and rarely made a bad signing, as I said even the signings from the lower leagues were a huge success. It was a perfect storm and they built a culture and momentum that was hard to stop.

[Wigan Riversider]

19 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think some people talk about Wigan during their dominance like it was one side who somehow cheated to get to and stay at the top. In reality they did little different to many of the other teams but did it first and did it better.

The early teams certainly did not get to the top by being full time or spending their way to the top in comparison to the other teams. I'd say two fantastic coaching appointments in Graham Lowe and later John Monie were the key. In an era where the game had fallen way behind Australia these two appointments saw the club make huge advancements in training and professionalism. Yes some big signings were made, as did every club at this time, and Wigan certainly were not unique in this. Wigan may have signed Hanley and Gregory but the likes of Leeds signed Crookes and Schofield for big money too. Widnes built a fantastic team too by spending big with the likes of Davies, Tait, Moriarty from Union. Plenty of the players were not full time either and had day jobs.

Wigan still had players like Nicky Kiss, Ian Potter, Henderson Gill and Brian Case who were with the club when they were also rans. This was supplemented by young, Wigan born players coming through, the likes of Edwards and Wane, and low key signings like Hampson and co. The signing of low key, little known players was the case throughout their dominance with players like McGinty, Panapa. Cowie, Hall, O'Connor etc far from stars or big names. The key was Wigan got everything else right at just the right time too and built a winning culture and as I said the coaches take a lot of credit for this in my opinion.

In the years after Widnes demise teams like Leeds continued to spend big, signing John Gallagher from RU in 1990 for huge money which he said was too good to be true and even signing Hanley from Wigan in 1991 for £250,000. Teams like Castleford also spent big money on the likes of Graham Steadman and built a very good team with Nikau, Blackmore and co. Saints and Warrington spent some big money too. Wigan certainly weren't alone in what they spent. For every Quinnell that they signed from RU, Saints signed a Gibbs, Widnes a Davies or Warrington a Bateman. Wigan had just got everything else right too and rarely made a bad signing, as I said even the signings from the lower leagues were a huge success. It was a perfect storm and they built a culture and momentum that was hard to stop.

As I said earlier in the thread, I loved every minute of of it. 

Great Post by you too. 

[fieldofclothofgold]

2 hours ago, Padge said:

And I was merely pointing out that a canny WIgan board were offloading players past their best, sometimes (but often not) for a juicy transfer fee to clubs that were signing them on their past reputation and not on current form and fitness.

It was a simple formula, with 12 months of a players contract to go open negotiations on the next one, offer a vastly reduced sum, agent stamps feet and says, I can do better elsewhere, Wigan say off you pops, agent touts player, finds better terms. WIgan then say you can go now, the fee is ££££. Wigan offload big contract, collect cash, talk to next player on target list.

 

Whilst still not wanting to get drawn in . I will comment once and last time . I think Leeds learned their lesson from those reckless days . Their senior players were from 2004 to say 2015 all said " we can all earn more money elsewhere ,but staying together is paying off " Things will be different now with this pandemic scary times ahead they have two new stands to pay for 

[Futtocks]

7 hours ago, Padge said:

And I was merely pointing out that a canny WIgan board were offloading players past their best, sometimes (but often not) for a juicy transfer fee to clubs that were signing them on their past reputation and not on current form and fitness.

It was a simple formula, with 12 months of a players contract to go open negotiations on the next one, offer a vastly reduced sum, agent stamps feet and says, I can do better elsewhere, Wigan say off you pops, agent touts player, finds better terms. WIgan then say you can go now, the fee is ££££. Wigan offload big contract, collect cash, talk to next player on target list.

In a later era, Wigan made amends by reversing the policy - offloading young talent (Huddersfield did quite nicely out of it) and signing Florimo, Reber etc. It all balances out in the end.

[Oldbear]

I agree with the comment made earlier in that the key elements to Wigan’s success at that time were the appointment of world class coaches in Lowe and Monie. They helped revolutionize the whole coaching picture in the UK as many teams looked to Australia for their next coaching hire. Mind you not all the hires were successes!

[Padge]

6 hours ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Whilst still not wanting to get drawn in . I will comment once and last time . I think Leeds learned their lesson from those reckless days . Their senior players were from 2004 to say 2015 all said " we can all earn more money elsewhere ,but staying together is paying off " Things will be different now with this pandemic scary times ahead they have two new stands to pay for 

I wasn't looking for an argument, I was just trying to be quite factual about what was going on. Leeds certainly learned an expensive lesson. The salary cap changed a lot of attitudes and despite a lot of whining about it from a lot of people it has made clubs look closer to home for talent and maybe persist with players longer rather wanting an instant star.

Keeping a good team together and slowly replenishing stock is key, you need a conveyor belt of talent sprinkled with a bit a start dust to create an attraction for fans on the edge.