Northern Union. A time to take stock?

[fighting irish]

8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

RU did go pro though, more than likely in response to the money which News Ltd was putting into RL.  Those "golden olden days" are gone for good unless someone somewhere works out how RL can attract the sort of funding necessary to pay players as well as RU can now.

You are exactly right BP I'm convinced Murdoch gave the SL the money in order to ''force'' RaRa to go pro'. 

 

[fighting irish]

17 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

On a tangential matter, there`s a short video just appeared on Youtube of the first line dropout in a NZ SR trial game. Looking through the comments, some like it, others think barbarism has finally prevailed.

On the ruck, in League there`s a perennial trade-off between ruck-speed and offside line. In the 10m era we`ve probably had slower ball on average than Union. It`s balanced out by the extra space.

If Union adopted a League offside line, they`d also have to reverse their recent trend and allow defenders more latitude in slowing the ruck. Or find a way to limit possession. This latter wouldn`t be entirely novel. When a Union ref says "use it once" at a maul, that`s a form of limited possession.

I'm sorry UP but I don't know what you mean by ''the first line dropout.....'' can you explain, in a little more detail and perhaps, post the link please?

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

You are exactly right BP I'm convinced Murdoch gave the SL the money in order to ''force'' RaRa to go pro'. 

 

It seems an awfully expensive way to go about it.

[fighting irish]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

It seems an awfully expensive way to go about it.

Yes, but probably brought the RaRa to the negotiating table a bit sharpish.

I don't know if he'd see it as a big expense, he was getting Super League, to sell to his subscribers too you know, or doesn't that add up to much in your eyes?

To capture SL and bring RaRa into his ''parlour'' is killing two flies with one web. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Yes, but probably brought the RaRa to the negotiating table a bit sharpish.

I don't know if he'd see it as a big expense, he was getting Super League, to sell to his subscribers too you know, or doesn't that add up to much in your eyes?

To capture SL and bring RaRa into his ''parlour'' is killing two flies with one web. 

I think you are conflating two separate things. Murdoch wanted Super League and Rugby League. That was his goal. I certainly don't think it was to cause RU to go professional. He didn't have to create Super League to do that.

[CiderWire]

Yes.

The breakaway allowed the sport to evolve in a direction desired by players and fans alike. If there hadn't been a split and still only one form of rugby I suspect it would be the 13 man League format. Union wants to evolve but can't - it's already been done!

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'm sorry UP but I don't know what you mean by ''the first line dropout.....'' can you explain, in a little more detail and perhaps, post the link please?

Posting links is beyond my capabilities I`m afraid. The video is on the All Blacks YouTube channel. Only a minute long. The title is "First ever goal-line drop-out in Sky Super Rugby".

They`ve adopted the RL rule so if a defender grounds the ball in the in-goal the result is a drop-out from the goal-line rather than the 22. Although as usual when Union lifts a League rule, they`ve tweaked it to save face. -  The kick doesn`t have to be from between the goal-posts.

[Griff]

8 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Posting links is beyond my capabilities I`m afraid. The video is on the All Blacks YouTube channel. Only a minute long. The title is "First ever goal-line drop-out in Sky Super Rugby".

They`ve adopted the RL rule so if a defender grounds the ball in the in-goal the result is a drop-out from the goal-line rather than the 22. Although as usual when Union lifts a League rule, they`ve tweaked it to save face. -  The kick doesn`t have to be from between the goal-posts.

Ah right.

Completely different rule then.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

You are exactly right BP I'm convinced Murdoch gave the SL the money in order to ''force'' RaRa to go pro'. 

 

Wasn`t sure if this post was sardonic at first. Mine on the previous page about signing RU players was an attempt at blistering sarcasm which might have backfired.

It would be hard to quantify, but there might be an element of truth in your claim above.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, CiderWire said:

Yes.

The breakaway allowed the sport to evolve in a direction desired by players and fans alike. If there hadn't been a split and still only one form of rugby I suspect it would be the 13 man League format. Union wants to evolve but can't - it's already been done!

I think there's a lot in that tbh

Every problem RU comes up with in terms of on field entertainment seems to be an almost carbon copy of discussions taking place in RL from circa 1895 to 1965. Former England and Fiji Sevens coach Ben Ryan was quite clear on the subject in one interview a while back stating that RU with uncontested, or "clean", rucks is a bit pointless because that game already exists, called Rugby League.

[fighting irish]

1 minute ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Wasn`t sure if this post was sardonic at first. Mine on the previous page about signing RU players was an attempt at blistering sarcasm which might have backfired.

It would be hard to quantify, but there might be an element of truth in your claim above.

I was working for the RFL, when Maurice did the deal.

I remember thinking that RaRa might lose a lot of their top players, if they couldn't legally and transparently pay them.

I believe the Super League deal was a major factor in pushing them into professionalism (even if only hastening their move).

Needing more money (to pay players, drove them into talks with Murdoch) they looked for new sources of finance.

This enabled Sky to accelerate its drive for global sports domination (in order to maximise subscriptions).

I believed then as now, that Murdoch was thinking ahead and SL was part of his plan to draw RaRa in. 

[unapologetic pedant]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I was working for the RFL, when Maurice did the deal.

I remember thinking that RaRa might lose a lot of their top players, if they couldn't legally and transparently pay them.

I believe the Super League deal was a major factor in pushing them into professionalism (even if only hastening their move).

Needing more money (to pay players, drove them into talks with Murdoch) they looked for new sources of finance.

This enabled Sky to accelerate its drive for global sports domination (in order to maximise subscriptions).

I believed then as now, that Murdoch was thinking ahead and SL was part of his plan to draw RaRa in. 

My guess is that Murdoch wanted a Southern Hemisphere pro RU comp for his channels along with Aussie RL.

SL franchises had their coffers stuffed with cash and were looking for high-profile players. The danger of losing a number of Wallabies and even more All Blacks was clear and present. It indirectly forced the issue without Murdoch having to plunder and pillage the NZRU as he had the ARL.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, Griff said:

Ah right.

Completely different rule then.

When George Harrison was sued for adapting "He`s so fine" into "My sweet lord", the judge found him guilty of "subconscious plagiarism".

We must accept that Rugby Union is a highly complex organism. A large part of its evolution occurs at a subliminal level.

[Taniwha Warriors]

On 23/10/2020 at 19:11, Damien said:

I've still never read it Harry but it makes complete sense. We evolved for a reason. The only reason Union didn't was because we did first.

I don't think union today would be rugby league if there was no split. 

[tiffers]

Taking a very different angle (and in very simple terms), the latest annual reports for 2019/20:

RFL Total Assets: £20.7m

RFU Total Assets: £380.7m

 

Based on their ability to acquire wealth/assets over the 125year time period, the fact the RFU's assets are x18.4 times larger *should* help to in taking stock off the pitch.

[Bleep1673]

On 23/10/2020 at 04:00, Number 16 said:

1895. Has it worked? 

1896 was better, We joined.