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1 hour ago, Deranged Drunk Guy said:

Thanks lads ,  good info. 

Langpark , how many clubs are in div 1 atm ? 

Off topic but bad luck the Storm couldn`t play the trial at Casey Fields(?) looked like a real good day for the fans, I read it was a bit of a League stronghold, 4 teams or something. Tell me, a question I`ve been dying to know the answer to, how`s the League coverage in the newspapers down there these days, I remember when they first set-up down there it used to be 8 pages of afl in the back of the paper and then one column for Rugby League or the Storm, have things improved ?

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Wow, super off-topic indeed! 😂

2 hours ago, Deranged Drunk Guy said:

Thanks lads ,  good info. 

Langpark , how many clubs are in div 1 atm ? 

I say this with 90% certainty:

5 teams: Red Star, Partizan, Dorcol Tigers, Radnicki Nis, Novi (New) Belgrade.

The latter two are well off the pace of the other three. Radnicki Nis seem to be in a rebuilding phase, where as New Belgrade, despite being around for nearly a decade, seem to always be a weak team, I don't know why that is. Perhaps the big 3 attract all the good players and they get the left-overs. 

Then there seem to be a few 'half-teams' lingering, that tend to play matches here and there. Car Dusan, Krusevac, Novi Pazova, Leskovac, are some names that come to mind. Not sure what the story is there or what their future plans are.

Then I believe the "big 3" have U16 and U18 teams as well. Nis have only U18 if I am not mistaken. 

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4 minutes ago, langpark said:

Wow, super off-topic indeed!

I`d say he`s a Storm supporter and you don`t often get to speak to one that actually lives in Melbourne.

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8 hours ago, langpark said:

Wow, super off-topic indeed! 😂

I say this with 90% certainty:

5 teams: Red Star, Partizan, Dorcol Tigers, Radnicki Nis, Novi (New) Belgrade.

The latter two are well off the pace of the other three. Radnicki Nis seem to be in a rebuilding phase, where as New Belgrade, despite being around for nearly a decade, seem to always be a weak team, I don't know why that is. Perhaps the big 3 attract all the good players and they get the left-overs. 

Then there seem to be a few 'half-teams' lingering, that tend to play matches here and there. Car Dusan, Krusevac, Novi Pazova, Leskovac, are some names that come to mind. Not sure what the story is there or what their future plans are.

Then I believe the "big 3" have U16 and U18 teams as well. Nis have only U18 if I am not mistaken. 

Next five years are crucial for Serbia - they either kick on or be left behind in terms of emerging-European supremacy.

5 solid teams has to fast become 5 solid clubs + 3 new teams

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50 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Next five years are crucial for Serbia - they either kick on or be left behind in terms of emerging-European supremacy.

5 solid teams has to fast become 5 solid clubs + 3 new teams

If I were them, I'd be tempted to separate the big three into their own group, then put every other team in its own group, call it a "development league, if you will.  Maybe even the big 3 could enter their U20s in it too or something.

I know the same teams playing each other over and over again is boring as hell, but clearly, they are just too far in front of the others.  I wonder if part of the reason other teams never formed/grew because the thought of coming up against a flogging from Red Star was too daunting, so teams dodged them altogether.

Just to highlight the point.  Partizan, one of the big three, played against Radnicki Nis today (4th strongest team) and beat them 98-4.  https://www.facebook.com/bslrugbyleague

A change of format is definitely needed.

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14 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Off topic but bad luck the Storm couldn`t play the trial at Casey Fields(?) looked like a real good day for the fans, I read it was a bit of a League stronghold, 4 teams or something. Tell me, a question I`ve been dying to know the answer to, how`s the League coverage in the newspapers down there these days, I remember when they first set-up down there it used to be 8 pages of afl in the back of the paper and then one column for Rugby League or the Storm, have things improved ?

Hi Rocket

Not much has changed sadly , but to be fair , Melbourne's media does this to all other sports as well , its AFL dominated whilst other sports get what space is left over . 

In saying that , Melbourne Storm has developed a great following and the sport is well admired in the city amongst regular folk, for example a lot of people follow their AFL team and the Storm , i hold season tickets for North Melbourne Kangaroos in AFL and Melb Storm in NRL. A lot of people do this .....

Casey is a large/growing area of Melbourne , working class , with a high number of people with heritage from the pacific islands , so im sure RL is popular out that way. 

We have 17 clubs in the Melbourne metropolitan area , closest club near me are the Mernda Dragons who run a junior only system , thats where my two nephews will play. 

Edited by Deranged Drunk Guy
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5 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Next five years are crucial for Serbia - they either kick on or be left behind in terms of emerging-European supremacy.

5 solid teams has to fast become 5 solid clubs + 3 new teams

I agree , next 5-10 years will be make or break . 

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14 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Off topic but bad luck the Storm couldn`t play the trial at Casey Fields(?) looked like a real good day for the fans, I read it was a bit of a League stronghold, 4 teams or something. Tell me, a question I`ve been dying to know the answer to, how`s the League coverage in the newspapers down there these days, I remember when they first set-up down there it used to be 8 pages of afl in the back of the paper and then one column for Rugby League or the Storm, have things improved ?

Bizarre comment !

Do Australian people tend to still read newspapers?

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5 hours ago, Deranged Drunk Guy said:

Hi Rocket

Not much has changed sadly , but to be fair , Melbourne's media does this to all other sports as well , its AFL dominated whilst other sports get what space is left over . 

In saying that , Melbourne Storm has developed a great following and the sport is well admired in the city amongst regular folk, for example a lot of people follow their AFL team and the Storm , i hold season tickets for North Melbourne Kangaroos in AFL and Melb Storm in NRL. A lot of people do this .....

Casey is a large/growing area of Melbourne , working class , with a high number of people with heritage from the pacific islands , so im sure RL is popular out that way. 

We have 17 clubs in the Melbourne metropolitan area , closest club near me are the Mernda Dragons who run a junior only system , thats where my two nephews will play. 

Thanks for all of that mate, I`ve always had an interest in the Storms progress on and off field, the Poms on here often say to me that it`s hard to comprehend how dominate soccer is in England, but I think to myself well I think I actually do because League is in a very similar situation in Victoria.

It`s great to see that so many people in Victoria actually now seem to accept Melbourne`s presence, it always rates very highly in fan engagement surveys, probably a reflection of that second team syndrome, pity though it isn`t reflected in a bit stronger TV ratings, can`t complain about the crowds though.

The Storm seem to put a lot of effort into community engagement I saw an article about a campaign they ran last year called ` You can play League as well` or something to that effect, I thought that was brilliant.

Couple of last things, are you from out of State, it must be rare for a born and bred Victorian to have a season membership and have nephews who play the game and what sort of time frame do you think there might be before there is a second Melbourne team, rivalries can be powerful things and the Storm seem to be doing very well financially off-field and there could possibly be enough room for a second team. 

Anyway great do speak to some one on the frontline, all the best, Rocket.

 

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Rocket , i am born and bred Melburnian, who in the 90's watched the Storm games on channel 9 when i was growing up and quickly learnt the rules of the game. Never actually been anywhere in Australia apart from Hobart and my city of birth obviously. I am of Serbian heritage BTW. 

Second Melbourne team IMO would be 20 years off , due to the fact its a saturated sporting landscape with so many clubs from various sports.

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12 hours ago, Deranged Drunk Guy said:

Casey is a large/growing area of Melbourne , working class , with a high number of people with heritage from the pacific islands , so im sure RL is popular out that way. 

We have 17 clubs in the Melbourne metropolitan area , closest club near me are the Mernda Dragons who run a junior only system , thats where my two nephews will play. 

Haven`t heard anything recently about the Rugby League centre of excellence that was planned for Broadmeadows.

I think that`s another suburb where there`s a good number of Polynesians. Northern Thunder are the local club.

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On 22/02/2021 at 07:44, welshmagpie said:

Next five years are crucial for Serbia - they either kick on or be left behind in terms of emerging-European supremacy.

5 solid teams has to fast become 5 solid clubs + 3 new teams

 

18 hours ago, Deranged Drunk Guy said:

I agree , next 5-10 years will be make or break . 

This story is typical of League everywhere, perhaps a little more persistent in Serbia, but following a similar pattern. It is something that greatly interests me and would love some thoughts on.

Again and again we have seen throughout the last 50 years Rugby League competitions start up and initially look promising in so many countries only to completely die off or be reduced often to 2 or 3 sides which really isn`t feasible anyway. Lebanon, Italy, Russia, Ukraine the list goes on. Where are we going wrong, what can we do or at least what could the RLIF do to help.

I understand that League is not often seen as a mass participation sport given the physical demands, but even if only a small percentage of the populations in those countries are willing to play, how do we reach them, especially those countries that have made such promising starts and been as persistent as a country like Serbia, a country I read once had 17 clubs.

It` is my intention to put a downer on things here, but I think sometimes you have to face reality otherwise the same things will just happen over and over. And the reality is League has been embraced by so many in so many different countries, embraced enough to even want to go out and form a team and play it, but all too often falters. Where are we going wrong.

 

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I don't understand why so many RL fans have to be so dramatic all the time.  "Make or break" "do or die" "grow or go bust"... I don't see it that way at all.  RL has existed 126 and a lot of clubs in England pre-date the game and over 150 years old. 

Rugby League in Serbia is not even 20 years old yet.  It has grown at times, and has also been stagnant at times.  Everyone has setbacks and hurdles to overcome, but I don't think it is fair to say that they have ever gone backwards, or been in decline and any point during those (approx. 18) years of existence.  They, like many minnow nations, face an incredible, if not impossible task of catching up to nations that had a 100+ year head start.

You used Russia, Italy, Lebanon and Ukraine as an example of countries that started off promising, then died off (or had minimal teams left).  I think that example can only really apply to Russia, who indeed were getting big at one stage and in the last couple of years literally did die off.  Italy and Lebanon never got big (don't confuse seeing Farah and Tedesco wearing their jerseys at World Cups, with how the game is going on the ground).  While Ukraine, I think is only about 13-14 years old, has been on a similar path to Serbia.  Slow and steady, but I have never seen them go backwards like you have implied.

One final example to close:  Rugby Union was first played in Argentina in 1873 and their federation was established in 1899.  Argentina today has 110,000 registered players (according to wiki).

Now, despite this, Argentina has NO CHANCE of winning a RUWC any time soon and will probably forever be a "tier 2" nation.  What should they do?  Pack up and call it a day?  Cease to exist?

This "make or break" mentality needs to stop.  It achieves nothing and I genuinely wonder what expectations people have of some of these countries.  To achieve in 10 years what other countries achieved in 100 with almost zero resource to work with?

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1 hour ago, langpark said:

I don't understand why so many RL fans have to be so dramatic all the time.  "Make or break" "do or die" "grow or go bust"... I don't see it that way at all.  RL has existed 126 and a lot of clubs in England pre-date the game and over 150 years old. 

League has achieved critical mass in England a long time ago and this multi-club situation has probably been essential to the games persistence.

 

1 hour ago, langpark said:

Rugby League in Serbia is not even 20 years old yet.  It has grown at times, and has also been stagnant at times.  Everyone has setbacks and hurdles to overcome, but I don't think it is fair to say that they have ever gone backwards, or been in decline and any point during those (approx. 18) years of existence. 

Try more like 70 years old and now reduced to 5 stable(?) clubs. Something is not working.

 

1 hour ago, langpark said:

You used Russia, Italy, Lebanon and Ukraine as an example of countries that started off promising, then died off (or had minimal teams left).  I think that example can only really apply to Russia, who indeed were getting big at one stage and in the last couple of years literally did die off.  Italy and Lebanon never got big (don't confuse seeing Farah and Tedesco wearing their jerseys at World Cups, with how the game is going on the ground).

I had high hopes for Lebanon and I`m pretty sure they had an 8 -10 team comp about 10 -15 years ago, now nothing. I`ve only read about Italy, but I recall from these pages something similar about 50 years ago, now ditto.

Ukraine well i haven`t heard anything about them for a while, if they are still operating great.

Not quite sure what point your trying to make mentioning Farrah or Tedesco, no one is confusing anything, facts are, they they don`t exist anymore.

1 hour ago, langpark said:

This "make or break" mentality needs to stop.  It achieves nothing and I genuinely wonder what expectations people have of some of these countries.  To achieve in 10 years what other countries achieved in 100 with almost zero resource to work with?

I take your point ,and often think that way myself, my father once pointed out to me that union has a 50 year head start on League, where we will we be in 50 years. And your point about resources is true, once the RLIF has more resources then it will be able to spend more in these countries.

Maybe patience is the key, maybe encouraging greater links between the stronger and fledgling nations and the clubs within would help, I think definitely having a stronger international calendar especially between fledging nations who are close geographically would help, say, Serbia, Turkey and Lebanon.

Anyway I`m just putting it out there, you disagree, I sincerely hope that you are right.

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Rocket, not true 70 years ....

RL was banned in Serbia in 1964 after a decade  of functioning . As the commies wanted to play Union which the croats were playing . 

All in all , RL has a history of 27-28 years in Serbia. 53-64 , 03-current times ..... 

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It’s important to note that growth in developing countries is rarely linear, they often have ups and downs. It does feel like the top Serbian clubs need a higher level to continue to progress. The Balkans league (although still fledgling) is probably the most achievable route for this. Clearly though the Greek and Turkish sides are too weak at the moment to offer too much of a challenge but both countries are showing very promising signs of meaningful development, particularly Turkey which I have high hopes for

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2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

It’s important to note that growth in developing countries is rarely linear, they often have ups and downs. 

This is true and inevitable. Hence it`s essential to find ways of ensuring a "down" isn`t terminal. So when setbacks occur, progress can continue on a two steps forward, one step back basis.

When a club is formed with nothing more than enough players for a Tackle RL squad, they`re always a few injuries away from collapse. If players have come from RU, it`s doubly precarious. Only a few need to drift back to imperil the RL venture.

In my view, integrating non-contact forms of RL at the outset is the best, possibly the only, way to create the permanence that can weather reversals in the Tackle form of the game. - For all the reasons exhaustively set out in the Tag/Touch thread.

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17 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This is true and inevitable. Hence it`s essential to find ways of ensuring a "down" isn`t terminal. So when setbacks occur, progress can continue on a two steps forward, one step back basis.

When a club is formed with nothing more than enough players for a Tackle RL squad, they`re always a few injuries away from collapse. If players have come from RU, it`s doubly precarious. Only a few need to drift back to imperil the RL venture.

In my view, integrating non-contact forms of RL at the outset is the best, possibly the only, way to create the permanence that can weather reversals in the Tackle form of the game. - For all the reasons exhaustively set out in the Tag/Touch thread.

It's an important tool to integrate certainly, although not the only

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On 21/02/2021 at 12:09, langpark said:

Wow, super off-topic indeed! 😂

I say this with 90% certainty:

5 teams: Red Star, Partizan, Dorcol Tigers, Radnicki Nis, Novi (New) Belgrade.

The latter two are well off the pace of the other three. Radnicki Nis seem to be in a rebuilding phase, where as New Belgrade, despite being around for nearly a decade, seem to always be a weak team, I don't know why that is. Perhaps the big 3 attract all the good players and they get the left-overs. 

Then there seem to be a few 'half-teams' lingering, that tend to play matches here and there. Car Dusan, Krusevac, Novi Pazova, Leskovac, are some names that come to mind. Not sure what the story is there or what their future plans are.

Then I believe the "big 3" have U16 and U18 teams as well. Nis have only U18 if I am not mistaken. 

I'm not so sure. Or in fact sure at all, how many teams are in the Serbian League (I'm certainly not 50% sure even). There's Red Kangaroos too (albeit they are a junior Red Start team I think)

So, I'm still massively confused about about it and have been for a while TBH. I only thought there were 4 teams in the first division. I've just read on some Facebook post the owner of Red Start saying there are 8 teams. But I just can't find any detailed info. It's a shame as I've got quiet into it through lockdown.

I guess if this is on a new, subscription, platform my following might wain (given the French Elite is free and I run out of time to watch games)

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