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Sat 10 Apr: CC3: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos KO 14:30 (BBC)


Who will win?  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • St Helens
      42
    • Leeds Rhinos
      8

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  • Poll closed on 10/04/21 at 14:00

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5 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

I gave up.when thaler got the red mist.

Watching barnsley v Middlesbrough now

I’ve only been to Barnsley the once when Saints played Wakey there. A nice stadium, especially the old stand with the tv gantry. Although it doesn’t match the other three stands. 

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Yet Football fans don't beat their sport up when there is a 0-0 or a 1-0, they just accept its part of the game and move on to the next as they love their sport. In fact Union fans are enthusiast

If we want parents to take their kids to play our sport , that type of tackle must be punished 

I'm ok with that decision.  Late, blindsided and a direct contact with the head.  We can't wait for a payer to be seriously injured before we pull out a red card.

5 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

is brad dwyer in the england squad?- always looks good- didn't even realise lachlan coote was playing!

It was quite clear Coote wasn’t match fit, if only we had a reserve competition 

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4 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Ha ha.

Many years ago I remember seeing on TV Brian Hogan get sent off for a horrible stiff arm.  Later that evening in our packed pub I was standing behind my chair and someone tapped me on the shoulder. I turned and there was a really fed up Hogan in my ear. "Is that chair free?"   I had to whisper with dry mouth, "No".   "*%$#@¥₩" he replied.  But I survived.

I used to see Brian Hogan walking his red Irish setters. 

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I thought Leeds played really well considering the side they had out, if it had remained 13v13 it might’ve been a different result. I was really impressed with the young Leeds lad who scored their first try. As for Saints, it was clear Coote wasn’t match fit. Walmsley needs to be taught on how to bend his back and play the ruddy ball correctly. Bentley is a great player in defence but he offers very little in attack. Bar one great kick by Fages in the 2nd half which made Leeds turn round and start from near their own line he was nonexistent in attack and his kicking game is pish. We had a young lad on the bench in Dodd who is supposedly a promising 7, yet when Roby went off he moved Dodd to hooker and kept Fages at scrum-half, Dodd will never be a hooker. 
Great hands by Naiqama for Makinson’s second try though.  Right im off to watch Barnsley on EFL on Quest don’t tell me the result. 

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Leeds did well to stay in the game in the first half with their depleted ten but after the red card they were never going to win even with their poor choices of last tackle kicks and Saints not being at their best. Leeming played well and his kicking in the first half was good and I thought that with Dwyers second try that he was short of the line.

With Clark, Hodgson, Dwyer, Leeming, Litten McShane etc there are a lot of good English hookers around at the moment.

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Morgan Gannon looks like a great prospect. Only turned 17 in December and first pre season. Clearly he hasn’t had the footy in the past 18 months which won’t have helped either. Got a great frame on him and fearless like his dad. Along with another recently turned 17 year old Levi Edwards, Leeds have big hopes for both. Both from Siddal as well, they’re churning out a ridiculous number of good prospects 

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2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Morgan Gannon looks like a great prospect. Only turned 17 in December and first pre season. Clearly he hasn’t had the footy in the past 18 months which won’t have helped either. Got a great frame on him and fearless like his dad. Along with another recently turned 17 year old Levi Edwards, Leeds have big hopes for both. Both from Siddal as well, they’re churning out a ridiculous number of good prospects 

Siddal do a fantastic job develping young players, there Holroyd, Smithies team of a few year ago and the u15 Edwards, Gannon team are two of the best age grade community teams in recent history... but Quick mention for Batley Boys for there part in develping Levi Edwards, he played for them before joining Siddal, he was already regarded as a super talent before he went to Siddal at the start of his u15 season.  

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I’ve just seen the stats from yesterday’s game and it said Fages & Dodd made Zero meters. Is that really possible to make no meters whatsoever. Could someone also please explain to me what is the difference between a clean break and a tackle bust cheers. 

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On 10/04/2021 at 15:03, The Phantom Horseman said:

Just seen a "six again" called on the first tackle following a St Helens knock on ie a zero tackle. This may have been asked before, but can anyone tell me what the downside is to slowing up a play-the-ball on the zero tackle, assuming it isn't an obvious sin-bin situation?

There isn't one. One of many reasons it is a stupid rule. Same applies on 1st tackle really, teams would rather defend one extra tackle than a quick PTB.

 

1 hour ago, Josef K said:

I’ve just seen the stats from yesterday’s game and it said Fages & Dodd made Zero meters. Is that really possible to make no meters whatsoever. Could someone also please explain to me what is the difference between a clean break and a tackle bust cheers. 

Metres are only made with carries I believe (i.e. I run with the ball and get tackled). I assume they just passed the ball every time they touched it. 

A tackle bust means you've beaten the tackle of a defender while a clean break means you've broken the defensive line. You could bust the tackle of one defender, get tackled by the bloke next to him and get a tackle bust but no clean break. 

17 hours ago, Josef K said:

Ie had a young lad on the bench in Dodd who is supposedly a promising 7, yet when Roby went off he moved Dodd to hooker and kept Fages at scrum-half, Dodd will never be a hooker. 
 

Dodd isn't playing at hooker because we expect him to be a hooker long-term. He's being played at hooker because the position is much less isolated defensively (which Dodd needs at the minute) and has far less responsibility. It's just a way of getting him some game time. 

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1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

There isn't one. One of many reasons it is a stupid rule. Same applies on 1st tackle really, teams would rather defend one extra tackle than a quick PTB.

 

Metres are only made with carries I believe (i.e. I run with the ball and get tackled). I assume they just passed the ball every time they touched it. 

A tackle bust means you've beaten the tackle of a defender while a clean break means you've broken the defensive line. You could bust the tackle of one defender, get tackled by the bloke next to him and get a tackle bust but no clean break. 

Dodd isn't playing at hooker because we expect him to be a hooker long-term. He's being played at hooker because the position is much less isolated defensively (which Dodd needs at the minute) and has far less responsibility. It's just a way of getting him some game time. 

Thanks for the info Saint 1. I can’t see Woolf going with 3 forwards and a back on the bench on Friday. Hopefully Smith will be back. 

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3 hours ago, Josef K said:

Thanks for the info Saint 1. I can’t see Woolf going with 3 forwards and a back on the bench on Friday. Hopefully Smith will be back. 

Not sure how long Percy is out for but it could be that if he's back, Welsby goes to the bench. Assuming Smith isn't back, that is 

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On 10/04/2021 at 15:40, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Yellow yes but RED!  Bloody ridiculous

Ball gone, Fages facing the opposite direction, swinging arm, direct contact with the head from behind - The cheap shot woman beater got what he deserved with the red card. He should get 3-4 games for that !

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3 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Ball gone, Fages facing the opposite direction, swinging arm, direct contact with the head from behind - The cheap shot woman beater got what he deserved with the red card. He should get 3-4 games for that !

yep, although I would now hope for consistent application.  Last few seasons I have watched loads of late shots after the ball kicked.

Normally its the last kick from around the halfway line and then ref is running towards where the kick is going.  The one at the week-end was I suspect because the player needed treatment and hence the reviews and message to ref.   

The problem I have with bad play is its often only adjudged if play stop's.

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5 minutes ago, redjonn said:

yep, although I would now hope for consistent application.  Last few seasons I have watched loads of late shots after the ball kicked.

Normally its the last kick from around the halfway line and then ref is running towards where the kick is going.  The one at the week-end was I suspect because the player needed treatment and hence the reviews and message to ref.   

The problem I have with bad play is its often only adjudged if play stop's.

We've already had an inconsistency in the same weekend............case in point, Tanginoa's swinging arm which went on report. Granted it wasn't the same level of Tetevano, but why wasn't it at least a yellow? Putting things on report is a complete cop out and should only ever be used for incidents which are unclear, which this wasn't

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4 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

We've already had an inconsistency in the same weekend............case in point, Tanginoa's swinging arm which went on report. Granted it wasn't the same level of Tetevano, but why wasn't it at least a yellow? Putting things on report is a complete cop out and should only ever be used for incidents which are unclear, which this wasn't

That looked like a painful one, i was surprised he didn’t get a red. 

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49 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

We've already had an inconsistency in the same weekend............case in point, Tanginoa's swinging arm which went on report. Granted it wasn't the same level of Tetevano, but why wasn't it at least a yellow? Putting things on report is a complete cop out and should only ever be used for incidents which are unclear, which this wasn't

Considering the VR was there I think it was poor to put that on report. 

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Can't say I'm impressed with the new ball stealing rule.

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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2 hours ago, redjonn said:

yep, although I would now hope for consistent application.  Last few seasons I have watched loads of late shots after the ball kicked.

Normally its the last kick from around the halfway line and then ref is running towards where the kick is going.  The one at the week-end was I suspect because the player needed treatment and hence the reviews and message to ref.   

The problem I have with bad play is its often only adjudged if play stop's.

A late shot as they kick is a bit different as 1) the kicker is off the ground so head contact is rare 2) they normally are front-facing (rather than after passing when they often get hit in the back). 

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23 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

A late shot as they kick is a bit different as 1) the kicker is off the ground so head contact is rare 2) they normally are front-facing (rather than after passing when they often get hit in the back). 

maybe, but I guess you mean one foot off the ground when they kick.. although normally they are hit when both feet and are back on the ground as the late hit is very late... 

some of the late hits are very very late...

plus late hits isn't just about getting head contact... its still dangerous play which ever part of body plus with respect to long term concussion issues it can still rock one's head a bit like whip lash...

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1 hour ago, redjonn said:

maybe, but I guess you mean one foot off the ground when they kick.. although normally they are hit when both feet and are back on the ground as the late hit is very late... 

some of the late hits are very very late...

plus late hits isn't just about getting head contact... its still dangerous play which ever part of body plus with respect to long term concussion issues it can still rock one's head a bit like whip lash...

I'd be quite happy to bet that most kickers aren't hit after landing with both feet on the ground - the tackler needs to at least have the pretense of trying to get there on time.

Of course it's dangerous play, but clearly there are levels to that and the risks of concussion posed from being hit in the midriff while kicking aren't comparable with being hit in the back or head while passing aren't comparable. That's why they get punished differently. Any tackle can rock one's head, legal or not. 

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1 hour ago, redjonn said:

maybe, but I guess you mean one foot off the ground when they kick.. although normally they are hit when both feet and are back on the ground as the late hit is very late... 

some of the late hits are very very late...

plus late hits isn't just about getting head contact... its still dangerous play which ever part of body plus with respect to long term concussion issues it can still rock one's head a bit like whip lash...

If a player is running with the ball it's a fair tackle. If he is about or in the process of grubbering it then it is hard to stop an intended tackle. This can be a marginal call.   But if a player is set, ie just stopped, to kick high then really the attacker should only charge down the ball which should not be (?) a knock on. Of course the attacker can dummy the attacker and take a step which does add to the skill of the game.

There is always something on the margin... there always is... and if the attacker is on the cusp of 'setting himself he might get tackled... but at that point he has the ball. The ref way call play on or call a foul.   This perhaps differentiates a 'foul' from 'late'

If we want to stop injuries then we needed to be clear about what is a charge down of the ball and what is a tackle and what is late.  

A player without the ball has little to defend himself with and should be protected.  

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