Brisbane firehawks

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

I think part of the deal is to play out of suncorp In order to maximize it’s use in terms of revenue. 
 

Mathematically impossible to fit 25,000-30,000 people into a 10k stadium. Plus if the new franchise are going to have to pay a license fee in order to become the 17th NRL team they’ll need all the money they can get.

Will they get 25-30k though, how many NRL sides get that as an average attendance, there’s no reason why a new franchise would? But fair enough if it’s part of the deal. 

[Cumbrian Mackem]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Will they get 25-30k though, how many NRL sides get that as an average attendance, there’s no reason why a new franchise would? But fair enough if it’s part of the deal. 

All depends on how successful they are but the south Queensland crushers got a few 20k+ attendances in their 1st season. 
 

3 Queensland derby games, Melbourne and south’s etc should see them easily attract crowds of 20-30k. The rest like I say depends on their form. Plus the dolphins claim to have 40k members so if only half of them show up it’s still massive.

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

 Plus the dolphins claim to have 40k members so if only half of them show up it’s still massive.

They`ll be lucky if a tenth of their Leagues club members will attend games regularly.

[JonM]

17 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Just imagine a club with the resources, development platform and community backing of the Dolphins in the UK... they’d be a top 4 side in SL. 

They'd be comfortably the largest club in the UK.

Answers to lots of the questions on this thread here, for those who haven't already seen it: https://www.dolphinsnrl.com.au/credentials/

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

19 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

The NRL want Brisbane2 to be a broncos mk2 and not a Brisbane version of manly.

Manly doesn’t have

- A Leagues Club to support it, at all, let alone a long-term highly successful entertainment business like the Dolphins’

- A 10,000+ seater stadium and corporate facilities 

- A huge under-developed junior talent development catchment 

 

I’m not sure Brisbane needs another corporate, “2nd-best-Broncos” clone. It has however got an opportunity to have a culturally differentiated, “challenger” brand club from the other side of the tracks. Better story, compelling narrative etc etc:

 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

5 hours ago, JonM said:

They'd be comfortably the largest club in the UK.

Answers to lots of the questions on this thread here, for those who haven't already seen it: https://www.dolphinsnrl.com.au/credentials/

Yup. Basically Leeds, with bells on

 

 

[The Rocket]

12 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

They`ll be lucky if a tenth of their Leagues club members will attend games regularly.

I thought the same thing when I read that, Leagues club membership is usually skewed towards a much older demographic. Having thought a bit more about it though, the people who would be members would very likely have historical ties with supporting the football club and consequently their children and grandchildren would be prime target audiences for attending games. That 40 000 could have vast tentacles throughout the region.

I joined Ryde-Eastwood Leagues club when I lived in Sydney off the back of my father being a member, a lifelong Tigers supporter, and we did occasionally go to Tigers games.

Just a little more on Leagues Club memberships, usually over here, if your the club type you will usually belong to either the Returned Soldiers League, better known as R.S.L. clubs, golf clubs, bowling clubs or Leagues clubs. Usually at any of the larger ones of these you can go for a drink, a meal, play the pokies, catch a show or watch live sport in the sports bar, etc. etc. Which you belong to generally I think largely reflects your background, the base membership of any of these would fall into the demographic that generally follow the sport that the club is founded around.

Not a hard and fast rule of course, a lot of people would just go down for a meal etc. but I think there would definitely be a strong correlation.

Therefore a large and well patronised Leagues club would be a fairly good indicator of a healthy League following in any particular area.

 

 

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, JonM said:

They'd be comfortably the largest club in the UK.

Answers to lots of the questions on this thread here, for those who haven't already seen it: https://www.dolphinsnrl.com.au/credentials/

Thanks for that, and as I said elsewhere compelling, I just didn`t realise how compelling.

[Smudger06]

So a Leagues Club is like a Toby Carvery, Costa Coffee shop, Gala Bingo, Witherspoon Pub, a small casino operation & a sports bar all part of the same business & under one roof. 

[Cumbrian Mackem]

18 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

So a Leagues Club is like a Toby Carvery, Costa Coffee shop, Gala Bingo, Witherspoon Pub, a small casino operation & a sports bar all part of the same business & under one roof. 

Aren’t they pokies(fruit machines)?

[Copa]

23 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

So a Leagues Club is like a Toby Carvery, Costa Coffee shop, Gala Bingo, Witherspoon Pub, a small casino operation & a sports bar all part of the same business & under one roof. 

Something like that. The gambling side is generally poker machines (fruit/slot machines) and an on site betting agency.

[Smudger06]

7 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Aren’t they pokies(fruit machines)?

Indeed. 

[Smudger06]

Or like a WMC on steroids..........

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Therefore a large and well patronised Leagues club would be a fairly good indicator of a healthy League following in any particular area.

But Leagues club membership doesn`t translate into attendance at games. NRL clubs struggle to get average attendances that are half of even their football club membership, particularly if the team is losing.

Seems to me Dolphins Leagues is similar to the bigger Leagues clubs not attached to an NRL team in Sydney (Wenty, Mounties, Cabra). Wenty claim 70 000 members. Can`t find figures for the other two, but they`ll be massive, in line with the size of the clubs. Safe to say only a small minority of those members will pay much attention to any of the football teams.

It`s generally reckoned that historically a key difference between Melbourne Aussie Rules clubs and Sydney RL clubs is that the former focussed on attendance at games while the latter focussed on Leagues club visits to play the pokies.

[JonM]

There's an argument that Redcliffe, with decades of history, and being the most successful Queensland Cup team, already has a 'story' and a 'brand'. Maybe fans elsewhere are more likely to turn up and watch when the Dolphins are the visitors than for a brand new corporate club. It's analogous to Port Adelaide entering the AFL, or the way St. George is usually top of the away attendance chart.

I think it's a given that home attendances will be OK whoever gets the nod to be Brisbane 2. 

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

But Leagues club membership doesn`t translate into attendance at games. NRL clubs struggle to get average attendances that are half of even their football club membership, particularly if the team is losing.

Seems to me Dolphins Leagues is similar to the bigger Leagues clubs not attached to an NRL team in Sydney (Wenty, Mounties, Cabra). Wenty claim 70 000 members. Can`t find figures for the other two, but they`ll be massive, in line with the size of the clubs. Safe to say only a small minority of those members will pay much attention to any of the football teams.

It`s generally reckoned that historically a key difference between Melbourne Aussie Rules clubs and Sydney RL clubs is that the former focussed on attendance at games while the latter focussed on Leagues club visits to play the pokies.

I still think there would be a correlation between the size of a teams Leagues club and their crowd-pulling ability, probably reflecting their reach throughout their community, but as you say, especially when they are winning. 

It was interesting to note earlier this year when the Bulldogs were attempting to get their club back on track there was talk of a greater tie in between the Leagues club and the football department, I think I recall them saying there would be two Leagues clubs directors on the football departments board and vice-versa. I suppose this is indicative of your last point and a point I have made before, that it seems many Leagues clubs have taken on a life of their own now, with the football department not always being the highest priority.

[unapologetic pedant]

7 hours ago, JonM said:

I think it's a given that home attendances will be OK whoever gets the nod to be Brisbane 2. 

I don`t think it`s that much of a given, although it depends on how you define OK.

As with the rest of the NRL, how the new bid rates on TV will be more commercially consequential. They just need enough fans to make the TV pictures look presentable. To that end, if it`s the Dolphins I reckon 10 000 at Dolphin Park will promote the club better than the same number rattling around Suncorp.

14 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 Having thought a bit more about it though, the people who would be members would very likely have historical ties with supporting the football club and consequently their children and grandchildren would be prime target audiences for attending games. That 40 000 could have vast tentacles throughout the region.

Continuing my point above, if after a couple of years of regularly filling Dolphin Park and rating well on TV, the Dolphins do research that finds they`ve acquired a fanbase across SEQ, maybe among those with the sort of family connection to the Leagues club that you mention, that might be a better time to start playing out of Suncorp.

It would be a boon to whichever Brisbane bid wins the franchise if the NRL did an AFL-style deal with the broadcasters to ensure QLD viewers regularly saw the new team on FTA. Tricky, because even if they could square it with Nine and Fox, there`d be pressure to do the same for Broncos, Cowboys, Titans, unlike the AFL who only have two franchises in each non-VIC State to accommodate.

[JonM]

7 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I don`t think it`s that much of a given, although it depends on how you define OK.

As with the rest of the NRL, how the new bid rates on TV will be more commercially consequential. They just need enough fans to make the TV pictures look presentable. To that end, if it`s the Dolphins I reckon 10 000 at Dolphin Park will promote the club better than the same number rattling around Suncorp.

I thought it was a given for all of the bids that Suncorp would be the main stadium - even the Logan/ Ipswich/ Toowomba/  Western Corridor bid is proposing to play there AFAIK. Crowds of 10K would be pretty disappointing. I'd assume they'd take one or two games per year to Dolphin Park and to the Sunshine Coast stadium.

[unapologetic pedant]

4 minutes ago, JonM said:

I thought it was a given for all of the bids that Suncorp would be the main stadium - even the Logan/ Ipswich/ Toowomba/  Western Corridor bid is proposing to play there AFAIK. Crowds of 10K would be pretty disappointing. I'd assume they'd take one or two games per year to Dolphin Park and to the Sunshine Coast stadium.

It is, but in the case of the Dolphins I personally think it would be wiser to play primarily at Dolphin Park while the NRL franchise beds in. 

You make a good point about the prospective attraction as an away team being stronger for a club with a recognised "story" and "brand". I`m thinking more of their TV ratings pulling power, which sadly is more relevant in the NRL than attendances. The more people with reasons to love or hate the new franchise, the higher will the ratings be.

[Anita Bath]

Dolphin park has one stand with cover against the elements (which in Queensland includes both rain and sun). with the recently developed areas being entirely concrete on sunny days it gets desperately hot. On rainy days, and in Queensland we often mean torrential storms, there is no hiding place.

 

Its a good distance out of Brisbane and at weekends their is often work being done on parts of the train line from Brisbane meaning a journey involving replacement buses and trains. Distance from Brisbane also means evening games have lower attendences because of time it takes to get back home. All this can be seen in the attendence at the Brisbane Roar A league team who moved from Suncorp to Dolphin stadium this season, largely to reduce costs, not to boost attendence. They havehad to give tickets away for many games.

Its fine for a QRL team when the crowd can usually fit comfortably into the main stand but it would not compete with attendences at other NRL teams once the novelty factor wore off.

They will need to play the vast majority of home games at Suncorp.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Its a good distance out of Brisbane and at weekends their is often work being done on parts of the train line from Brisbane meaning a journey involving replacement buses and trains. Distance from Brisbane also means evening games have lower attendences because of time it takes to get back home. All this can be seen in the attendence at the Brisbane Roar A league team who moved from Suncorp to Dolphin stadium this season, largely to reduce costs, not to boost attendence. They havehad to give tickets away for many games.

All this assumes the bulk of Dolphins NRL support will come from greater SEQ, since the travails of getting to Dolphin Park will presumably equally apply to those travelling from the Moreton Bay Region to Suncorp. How likely is that when the Dolphins name will closely associate them with a specific area?

I reiterate my earlier best guess. - If the Dolphins win the franchise, in the short to medium term most of the potential future fanbase will be watching on TV, wherever they play their games.

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

They will need to play the vast majority of home games at Suncorp.

I suspect that such will be the excitement of a new Queensland/Brisbane team, and such is the disillusionment with the Broncos, that the new team regardless of who it is will average ~ 20 000 and attract 30 -40 000 for big matches. That first figure could be more considering they will be the only game in town every fortnight.

I think considering that this will only be the second team based out of Brisbane, or at least nearby and playing home games at Suncorp, we will see a considerable cross-over between existing Broncos and the new franchises fans. Success or at least faring better than the Broncos would only greatly enhance this, especially for success starved Broncos fans who will gladly put their Queensland allegiances before their Broncos allegiances if the new team is bringing them consistent victories against despised adversaries from south of the border.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I suspect that such will be the excitement of a new Queensland/Brisbane team, and such is the disillusionment with the Broncos, that the new team regardless of who it is will average ~ 20 000 and attract 30 -40 000 for big matches. That first figure could be more considering they will be the only game in town every fortnight.

Best response to this is that I hope you are right.

I have less faith in the readiness of RL "fans" to go to RL games. The culture tends to discourage it.

 

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 if the new team is bringing them consistent victories against despised adversaries from south of the border.

And if the new team is bringing them consistent losses... 

They`ll be written off by the NRL media as flops whose games nobody could possibly want to go to.

And if the media aren`t talking them down, they`ll be talking another club down.

The NRL need a fixture formula which ensures all the teams in the competition can win all their games.

As Guru Gus says "winning is all that counts".

[The Daddy]

Is their anything that can be learned from the South Queensland Crushers that can give us a better understanding of how tgis franchise might fare?

[AB90]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I suspect that such will be the excitement of a new Queensland/Brisbane team, and such is the disillusionment with the Broncos, that the new team regardless of who it is will average ~ 20 000 and attract 30 -40 000 for big matches. That first figure could be more considering they will be the only game in town every fortnight.

I think considering that this will only be the second team based out of Brisbane, or at least nearby and playing home games at Suncorp, we will see a considerable cross-over between existing Broncos and the new franchises fans. Success or at least faring better than the Broncos would only greatly enhance this, especially for success starved Broncos fans who will gladly put their Queensland allegiances before their Broncos allegiances if the new team is bringing them consistent victories against despised adversaries from south of the border.

 

Yeah, good point on the existing Broncos supporters attending live games as they can't get their rugby league fix whilst the Broncs are playing interstate.

If you randomly played say Melbourne vs Parramatta at Suncorp stadium on a weekend when the Broncos were interstate I reakon it would draw at least 10,000 to 15,000 fans. So a another Brisbane team shouldn't have any issue drawing 20,000.

People underestimate what a rugby league mad city Brisbane is. Its religion over there and has the population to support 3 or 4 teams.