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Academy Licensing (2022 - 27) - (Merged threads)


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23 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Leigh don't have an academy this year, or last or before that. Why is that? Why did Widnes drop theirs, they had an excellent academy, grade 1 with very good people running it.

They don't get the pick of the best youth, they have to take players further down the pecking order at the cost of the community clubs.

I feel sorry for those missing out but reluctantly accept the reasoning to keep the game alive. Stripping our amateur teams which are the bedrock hasn't been good for community rugby League.

Leigh will have a reserves next year if in SL, this is where to grow your talent like it used to be, I doubt signing tier 4 talent from your catchment area would have a major impact on your 1st team player pool.

Happy to listen to all sides of this debate though ūüĎć

Firstly Leigh run the Academy they are allowed to run, believe it is a Cat 3 run with the local college and the clubs Tommy Sale Youth Academy. They also wanted to run a Cat 1 and applied as soon as allowed ie NOW. The entire proposal was for RL in the area, benefiting all - especially the kids within it.

Would we get the best picks Y1 - No, but IF the reality was as good as the vision/proposal then word of mouth may well have changed a lot of that in Y2. As has been stated Wigan took 7 Leigh lads into their structure this year, far more than Wigan lads.

You do not expand the player pool by raping the junior clubs and putting nothing back, you do not expand the player pool by discarding 100's of kids every year who have missed Uni and end up labouring.

I hope my club release the document presented then you can make your own mind up

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I'm not sure listing a bunch of players all but one of whom is over 30 is quite the argument for retaining an academy they think it is.

As usual, the lack of professionalism from people working in RL is notable in the responses to this decision. We've quickly covered the usual: it's a disgrace, my club's proposal was world-beating, th

I didn‚Äôt want to raise this but any suggestions that ‚Äėbrilliant‚Äô¬†work done by Bastion is just not the case, in fact, his approach is one of the problems. In 2019,¬†Bastion signed 19 players from j

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I was thinking this earlier that it's another example of really poor message control from the RFL.

Probably. Clubs should say to their players ‚ÄúLeave it with us to deal with‚Ä̬†However they‚Äôre just as bad as the RFL at times

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46 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

He's throwing his toys out of the pram. Seen and heard it all before.

9 heartlands spots were available, only 7 applications were deemed up to standard. That has nothing to do with London, Catalans and Newcastle getting their 3 spots.

What if the only reason given was proximity, what if say HKR's submission was miles better than Huddersfields but that left a huge gap from Warrington to Leeds with no RL Elite Academies? Why allow cash and time to be wasted in Leigh, HKR and Cas when the applications were never going to be considered??

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

A Carvell tweet has got his facts wrong on this thread already. 

Wakefield were rejected last time, and have worked to improve to now have a license granted. 

Not the first time Carvell has made rash and inaccurate public remarks 

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

He's throwing his toys out of the pram. Seen and heard it all before.

9 heartlands spots were available, only 7 applications were deemed up to standard. That has nothing to do with London, Catalans and Newcastle getting their 3 spots.

Which is exactly what you would say if you didn't want to appear to be pitting heartland against expansion clubs 

 

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1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

Unless they change the way the leagues work, no they won't. Wigan, Warrington, Salford and Leigh were all in NW division 1 for the last completed season. Cat 3 academies are primarily an educational tool for Elite clubs, which is why they are used in conjunction with a proper cat 1 academy.

How can clubs that have had their main academies removed, or application rejected, address things like end product without a means to do so? This isn't about the money, it's about access to the systems to develop players properly. If Garreth Carvell is to be believed(as someone overseeing Leighs bid and former head of the players Union I have no reason to doubt him) there wasn't any funding at stake for these licensing.

 

Screenshot_20210523-104210_Twitter.jpg

No Salford, Leeds, Hull FC, Huddersfield were in Premier. Salford May well have had a 2nd side in NW.

No surprise to see Carvell spouting off nonsense 

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8 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

What if the only reason given was proximity, what if say HKR's submission was miles better than Huddersfields but that left a huge gap from Warrington to Leeds with no RL Elite Academies? Why allow cash and time to be wasted in Leigh, HKR and Cas when the applications were never going to be considered??

They said up to 9 would be considered from the heartlands (they used a different term). Nobody was picked instead of anyone else because places were still available. You put in a previous post that Leigh's position was based on local recruitment, that might simply have not been deemed good enough. 

Fwiw I think this is an inevitable rationalisation as a result of the game failing to grow beyond the areas it was already played in. I think we'll see broader recruitment policies.

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is exactly what you would say if you didn't want to appear to be pitting heartland against expansion clubs 

 

I mean tin foil hat time?

Its quite clear that Newcastle and London are judged to a slightly different scale and why. Without them, no other academy will recruit in those areas. The same isn't true for the heartland clubs whose proposals didn't meet the required standard.

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I mean tin foil hat time?

Its quite clear that Newcastle and London are judged to a slightly different scale and why. Without them, no other academy will recruit in those areas. The same isn't true for the heartland clubs whose proposals didn't meet the required standard.

Which is exactly what you would say if you didn't want to appear to be pitting heartland against Expansion clubs 

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is exactly what you would say if you didn't want to appear to be pitting heartland against Expansion clubs 

That's cute

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52 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

My opinion is he is throwing his toys out of the pram.

And my opinion is that your argument that cat 3 academies are fine for other clubs fell pretty flat when it turned out you incorrectly were claiming Wakefield didnt have a Cat 1 academy. Now you've gone searching for a strawman in Garreth Carvell rather than just holding your hands up to basing your opinion on incorrect facts.

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27 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

No Salford, Leeds, Hull FC, Huddersfield were in Premier. Salford May well have had a 2nd side in NW.

No surprise to see Carvell spouting off nonsense 

I'll give you Salford, clearly they have a second team if they have one in the Premier division. That being said, I'm not really sure answering my point of Wigan, Wire and others having their teams in NW division 1, by listing a set of completely(except one) different set of clubs is quite the 'gotcha' you think it is. 

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1 hour ago, Spidey said:

As usual we‚Äôre seeing players/officials/etc¬†spout out stuff on Twitter before all details are revealed - the best thing they can do is hold their water. Clubs should reel them in a bit, leave the ranting to us fans ūüėú

Its never a good look is it, people involved in clubs in some way piling in on social media with emotion filled rhetoric often with very little basis in fact. 

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2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its never a good look is it, people involved in clubs in some way piling in on social media with emotion filled rhetoric often with very little basis in fact. 

While I agree , it is understandable when you are involved with the processes 

The academy system is never going to please everybody , and nobody can come up with a viable alternative 

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3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its never a good look is it, people involved in clubs in some way piling in on social media with emotion filled rhetoric often with very little basis in fact. 

Welcome to the age of social media. This is still nothing compared to the outcry over the football superleague.

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6 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

I'll give you Salford, clearly they have a second team if they have one in the Premier division. That being said, I'm not really sure answering my point of Wigan, Wire and others having their teams in NW division 1, by listing a set of completely(except one) different set of clubs is quite the 'gotcha' you think it is. 

I have no interest in 'scoring points' on an internet forum. I'm merely trying to correct the misinformation that some are posting. There is a league structure in place below Elite Academy status. This starts off with a National Premier Division, which features SL development academies, some of which have Elite academies and top colleges. That there are SL development academies below the National league shows there is some depth.

At the end of the day, the onus is on all clubs to improve the standard on and off the field, including widening and deepening the player pool. The Academy audits are comprehensive and cover a vast array of off field criteria, well beyond playing talent.

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

While I agree , it is understandable when you are involved with the processes 

The academy system is never going to please everybody , and nobody can come up with a viable alternative 

Its not though, if my employee did something I completely disagreed with the last thing on my mind would be to take to social media to slag them off. What do they think this will achieve, other than to antagonise fans who dont have any of the facts either. Frankly anyone employed by a club posting these things should be asked to explain there reasons, and if wrong then disciplined. 

I would also say the official replies by the clubs is a different thing all together, and I think some of the messages from clubs missing out have been brilliant and will hopefully prompt more questioning of the decision making, leading to a more open and honest understanding of where this whole thing is going. I dont think the decision makers need to be exempt from criticism, just dont see how coaches, club officials etc using it to gather a witch hunt will help in any way. It will just shut down discussion if anything.

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2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its not though, if my employee did something I completely disagreed with the last thing on my mind would be to take to social media to slag them off. What do they think this will achieve, other than to antagonise fans who dont have any of the facts either. Frankly anyone employed buy a club posting these things should be asked to explain there reasons, and if wrong then disciplined. 

Carvell doesn't work for the RFL 

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9 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I have no interest in 'scoring points' on an internet forum. I'm merely trying to correct the misinformation that some are posting. There is a league structure in place below Elite Academy status. This starts off with a National Premier Division, which features SL development academies, some of which have Elite academies and top colleges. That there are SL development academies below the National league shows there is some depth.

At the end of the day, the onus is on all clubs to improve the standard on and off the field, including widening and deepening the player pool. The Academy audits are comprehensive and cover a vast array of off field criteria, well beyond playing talent.

How is stating Wigan, Wire, Salford and Leigh having teams in the NW 1 misinformation? Which part of what I said is incorrect and needed correcting?

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