Academy Licensing (2022 - 27) - (Merged threads)

[DimmestStar]

40 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

People seem to be wilfully ignoring the fact that 12 licenses were available (9 heartlands) and only 10 issued (7 heartlands) - the other applicants must have been nowhere near the required standard.

No Hull KR were rejected because they thought there was only enough local talent for one club. With the chairman of the panel a self confessed Hull FC supporter the verdict was only going to go one way.

Possibly Hull FC's best 2 local players are Scott Taylor and Joe Cator - both products of Hull Kingston Rovers. This verdict has caused so much bad feeling after years of hard work and investment at Hull KR. 

I don't think we've heard the last of this.

[daz39]

Thought Hull Kr had an academy?

 

Based in Leeds somewhere

[GUBRATS]

Interesting that on this thread we have several posters now agreeing with the reasons I gave when defending Leigh's lack of having a cat 1 academy in the past , and it would seem the RFL agree that just dragging players out of the community game to ' pad out ' squads is not a good idea 

Common sense at last , hopefully we won't see any more idiots having a pop at clubs for not having an academy due to their lack of knowledge of the subject 

[David Dockhouse Host]

17 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

No Hull KR were rejected because they thought there was only enough local talent for one club. With the chairman of the panel a self confessed Hull FC supporter the verdict was only going to go one way.

Possibly Hull FC's best 2 local players are Scott Taylor and Joe Cator - both products of Hull Kingston Rovers. This verdict has caused so much bad feeling after years of hard work and investment at Hull KR. 

I don't think we've heard the last of this.

Is that right? If so they must have known before hand that only one club would be accepted? 

[del capo]

13 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

No Hull KR were rejected because they thought there was only enough local talent for one club. With the chairman of the panel a self confessed Hull FC supporter the verdict was only going to go one way.

Possibly Hull FC's best 2 local players are Scott Taylor and Joe Cator - both products of Hull Kingston Rovers. This verdict has caused so much bad feeling after years of hard work and investment at Hull KR. 

I don't think we've heard the last of this.

 

14 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

No Hull KR were rejected because they thought there was only enough local talent for one club. With the chairman of the panel a self confessed Hull FC supporter the verdict was only going to go one way.

Possibly Hull FC's best 2 local players are Scott Taylor and Joe Cator - both products of Hull Kingston Rovers. This verdict has caused so much bad feeling after years of hard work and investment at Hull KR. 

I don't think we've heard the last of this.

The chair Dean Andrew is a Hessle guy and may well support the west of your city but he is still a guy of judgement especially when he decides to liquidate parts of the middle East for instance with his drone attacks.

I'll take his recommendations. Hugely supported by the way within the Community game  after his stellar performance at the NCL dinner as RFL President a couple of years ago.......

[LeytherRob]

28 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Is that right? If so they must have known before hand that only one club would be accepted? 

Doesn't seem to be the case for several clubs. The below is from Gareth Carvell's twitter account, who was overseeing Leighs bid:

"We got rejected at leigh because we have too many clubs near us. Wasted a lot of man hours and went through a lot of stress for nothing. I get trying to grow the game in non rugby areas but not at the cost of already established rugby league areas."

[sweaty craiq]

16 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Doesn't seem to be the case for several clubs. The below is from Gareth Carvell's twitter account, who was overseeing Leighs bid:

"We got rejected at leigh because we have too many clubs near us. Wasted a lot of man hours and went through a lot of stress for nothing. I get trying to grow the game in non rugby areas but not at the cost of already established rugby league areas."

I had some involvement with Leighs bid, a very small one, and the quality and depth of bid, the vision for ensuring all players got a skill for life via fantastic business support whilst in the structure was brilliant - some HUGE organisations the RFL could only dream of engaging in sponsorship committed to supplying opportunities. I believe £400k pa was set aside to support it

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I had some involvement with Leighs bid, a very small one, and the quality and depth of bid, the vision for ensuring all players got a skill for life via fantastic business support whilst in the structure was brilliant - some HUGE organisations the RFL could only dream of engaging in sponsorship committed to supplying opportunities. I believe £400k pa was set aside to support it

So just think how much better the winning bids must have been 

[del capo]

51 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I had some involvement with Leighs bid, a very small one, and the quality and depth of bid, the vision for ensuring all players got a skill for life via fantastic business support whilst in the structure was brilliant - some HUGE organisations the RFL could only dream of engaging in sponsorship committed to supplying opportunities. I believe £400k pa was set aside to support it

And just how much of that 400k was to be directly invested in the 2 community clubs in Leigh  to provide the route to potential  Academy entrants ? I can have all the sun and rain I need for my  lawn but without seed it ain't going to grow.

Don't bother answering.

Directing those HUGE organisations to which you refer to the grass roots would help the game as a whole much better

[nadera78]

1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

Doesn't seem to be the case for several clubs. The below is from Gareth Carvell's twitter account, who was overseeing Leighs bid:

"We got rejected at leigh because we have too many clubs near us. Wasted a lot of man hours and went through a lot of stress for nothing. I get trying to grow the game in non rugby areas but not at the cost of already established rugby league areas."

Ok then, so how does he explain the two unused licenses? They were specifically for use by heartlands clubs.

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

Doesn't seem to be the case for several clubs. The below is from Gareth Carvell's twitter account, who was overseeing Leighs bid:

"We got rejected at leigh because we have too many clubs near us. Wasted a lot of man hours and went through a lot of stress for nothing. I get trying to grow the game in non rugby areas but not at the cost of already established rugby league areas."

Leigh don't have an academy this year, or last or before that. Why is that? Why did Widnes drop theirs, they had an excellent academy, grade 1 with very good people running it.

They don't get the pick of the best youth, they have to take players further down the pecking order at the cost of the community clubs.

I feel sorry for those missing out but reluctantly accept the reasoning to keep the game alive. Stripping our amateur teams which are the bedrock hasn't been good for community rugby League.

Leigh will have a reserves next year if in SL, this is where to grow your talent like it used to be, I doubt signing tier 4 talent from your catchment area would have a major impact on your 1st team player pool.

Happy to listen to all sides of this debate though

[LeytherRob]

7 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Ok then, so how does he explain the two unused licenses? They were specifically for use by heartlands clubs.

You'd need to ask him, clubs and officials can only relay what scarce feedback they've  been provided. Carvell certainly doesn't strike me as the type of person to just outright lie about the feedback provided. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

18 minutes ago, del capo said:

And just how much of that 400k was to be directly invested in the 2 community clubs in Leigh  to provide the route to potential  Academy entrants ? I can have all the sun and rain I need for my  lawn but without seed it ain't going to grow.

Don't bother answering.

Directing those HUGE organisations to which you refer to the grass roots would help the game as a whole much better

This whole perspective naively ignores how incentives work. All SL clubs bar Leeds operate with huge deficits, funded by owners. Those owners continue to invest in scholarship and academy programmes because of the potential pathway to talent for the first team. If you break that incentive link, by making it inevitable their best developed youth will leave the club at 16 or 18, then that investment is futile and it will stop.
 

The net result of this strategy will be to remove £millions from community investment, at a time when we need every single £ we can get. Instead of thinking somebody’s drone expertise was a relevant value-add to the panel, maybe we’d be better of with an economist who understands market development, supply and demand. 
 

[LeytherRob]

Just now, David Dockhouse Host said:

Leigh don't have an academy this year, or last or before that. Why is that? Why did Widnes drop theirs, they had an excellent academy, grade 1 with very good people running it.

They don't get the pick of the best youth, they have to take players further down the pecking order at the cost of the community clubs.

I feel sorry for those missing out but reluctantly accept the reasoning to keep the game alive. Stripping our amateur teams which are the bedrock hasn't been good for community rugby League.

Leigh will have a reserves next year if in SL, this is where to grow your talent like it used to be, I doubt signing tier 4 talent from your catchment area would have a major impact on your 1st team player pool.

Happy to listen to all sides of this debate though

We don't have an Academy this year or last year because we haven't been awarded a cat 1 license, which is what this entire thread is about. If you want to listen to both sides of the debate, I suggest you start by looking back through the thread.

[Smudger06]

Clubs can still sign young players to FT contracts if they wish, as long as they have turned 16 and left school. You don't need an Academy to do so. 

[LeytherRob]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

So just think how much better the winning bids must have been 

Funny how people have absolute faith in the governing body and processes when it's a decision they like. 

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Ok then, so how does he explain the two unused licenses? They were specifically for use by heartlands clubs.

Exactly, its a critical misunderstanding these sort of posts keep putting forward. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Funny how people have absolute faith in the governing body and processes when it's a decision they like. 

I don’t have much faith in the RFL but I do do a line of work where 9 in 10 bids are likely to be unsuccessful. The smart thing is always to study the successful bids ahead of you to see what they had that you didn’t.

[David Dockhouse Host]

13 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

We don't have an Academy this year or last year because we haven't been awarded a cat 1 license, which is what this entire thread is about. If you want to listen to both sides of the debate, I suggest you start by looking back through the thread.

The license is from 2022 Rob? 

Your confusing pervious years with next year's ruling.

[LeytherRob]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, its a critical misunderstanding these sort of posts keep putting forward. 

We don't know what the criteria was for awarding the final 2 academies, only that multiple clubs have been given geographical proximity as direct feedback for the failure of their bids. If that is the case, then the critical misunderstanding here is people assuming it is purely down to quality that some clubs have been rejected. Take Leigh or Salford for instance, if the board has taken the opinion that the 3 academies at Wigan, Wire and Saints is enough to serve the NW then it doesn't really matter how good or bad their bids were. There is precisely zero chance that any of those 3 clubs would be stripped of an academy right now.

[LeytherRob]

4 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

The license is from 2022 Rob? 

Your confusing pervious years with next year's ruling.

You're forgetting that the license process has been in place for quite a while now. 

[David Dockhouse Host]

2 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

You're forgetting that the license process has been in place for quite a while now. 

This discussion is about the recent decision which is licensing from 2022. This decision hasn't any bearing on this year, or last or the year before that. 

Leigh along with others could have asked and ran an academy before now but chose not too

[David Dockhouse Host]

6 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

We don't know what the criteria was for awarding the final 2 academies, only that multiple clubs have been given geographical proximity as direct feedback for the failure of their bids. If that is the case, then the critical misunderstanding here is people assuming it is purely down to quality that some clubs have been rejected. Take Leigh or Salford for instance, if the board has taken the opinion that the 3 academies at Wigan, Wire and Saints is enough to serve the NW then it doesn't really matter how good or bad their bids were. There is precisely zero chance that any of those 3 clubs would be stripped of an academy right now.

Salford like Widnes dropped their academy's as even with RFL funding it didnt make economic sense, rarely developing players for the first team as they had 4th or 5th choice of community players.

[LeytherRob]

2 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

This discussion is about the recent decision which is licensing from 2022. This decision hasn't any bearing on this year, or last or the year before that. 

Leigh along with others could have asked and ran an academy before now but chose not too

Do you think this is the first time academies have been licensed?

[TrueBull]

3 hours ago, DoubleD said:

People are also completely getting the wrong end of the stick. If it was due to geographical congestion, the clubs that missed out wouldn’t be allowed to run an academy. They can still run and academy but they haven’t met the standards for the Elite academy setup. Nothing to do with geographical congestion, it’s about raising standards 

I think Bradford are 4th for academy players in SL and NRL over the last 20 years. Bit harsh sacking the Bradford academy because they weren’t top 3. Raising standards can’t be the Bradford reason