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6 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

16 was the right balance between size and quality and was a tournament where getting out of the groups was an achievement not a foregone conclusion for most of the big teams. 

Exactly this. 👆

The Euros have the best footballing countries on the planet and it shouldn't be watered down for extra revenue for UEFA. The World Cup needs the extra teams to have the world represented. The Euros doesn't. 

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2 hours ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Exactly this. 👆

The Euros have the best footballing countries on the planet and it shouldn't be watered down for extra revenue for UEFA. The World Cup needs the extra teams to have the world represented. The Euros doesn't. 

That lack of familiarity with many teams in the World Cup also means it doesn't feel that watered down. That allied with the fact that they represent far flung countries means that the perceived lack of competition matters far less. 

Adding North Macedonia, Slovakia, Finland etc to the Euros doesn't add any colour or interest because we play teams like this in qualifying all the time. It's just another 8 worse sides most of whom park the bus when they play anybody decent. 

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3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

That lack of familiarity with many teams in the World Cup also means it doesn't feel that watered down. That allied with the fact that they represent far flung countries means that the perceived lack of competition matters far less. 

Adding North Macedonia, Slovakia, Finland etc to the Euros doesn't add any colour or interest because we play teams like this in qualifying all the time. It's just another 8 worse sides most of whom park the bus when they play anybody decent. 

I could throw Scotland into the list.

It is boring for us, but rather fun for North Macedonia, Slovakia, Finland and Scotland. Of course, teh real reason is to ensure as many of the major economies as possible do qualify.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Although I heard about the European Championship in 1976, it pretty much passed everyone by as England weren't in it, the Home Nations Championship probably had way more interest.  It wasn't until the 1980 one that I really remember it as England were in this one. It was roughly around the time of the controversial Moscow Olympics so it sort of sticks in my mind. I remember many of the players like Kevin Keegan or Butch Wilkins but for the life of me can't remember how they actually went on. I'm assuming it wasn't very good as I'm sure I'd have remembered it otherwise. (Goes to Wikipedia...)

There were still 8 teams in it then. 

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4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Although I heard about the European Championship in 1976, it pretty much passed everyone by as England weren't in it, the Home Nations Championship probably had way more interest.  It wasn't until the 1980 one that I really remember it as England were in this one. It was roughly around the time of the controversial Moscow Olympics so it sort of sticks in my mind. I remember many of the players like Kevin Keegan or Butch Wilkins but for the life of me can't remember how they actually went on. I'm assuming it wasn't very good as I'm sure I'd have remembered it otherwise. (Goes to Wikipedia...)

There were still 8 teams in it then. 

8 teams up to and including 1992, 16 teams up to and including 2012, 24 teams since 2016 ...

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13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

8 teams up to and including 1992, 16 teams up to and including 2012, 24 teams since 2016 ...

I do remember the 1992 one in particular as Denmark won it but were only included due to the break up and fall out over Yugoslavia. England were rubbish in that one too, knocked out by Sweden iirc.

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I do remember the 1992 one in particular as Denmark won it but were only included due to the break up and fall out over Yugoslavia. England were rubbish in that one too, knocked out by Sweden iirc.

I think, without checking, that England needed to beat Sweden to get out of the group and then failed to do so. We had an equally awful Euro 88. 

Denmark shouldn't have been there but were included for the reasons you say.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I'd say the extra countries in the tournament provided most of the memories last time round. I remember Iceland beating England, Wales making the semi-finals. Portugal beating France 1-0 in extra time in the final isn't something I'm likely to remember a few years from now. 

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I think, without checking, that England needed to beat Sweden to get out of the group and then failed to do so. We had an equally awful Euro 88. 

Denmark shouldn't have been there but were included for the reasons you say.

Yes that’s right they did . Isn’t that when they took Lineker off ?

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9 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Yes that’s right they did . Isn’t that when they took Lineker off ?

The BBC should learn.

Where were you last Thursday?

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10 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Isn’t that when they took Lineker off ?

Yes - I think that's the one. Needing to score two goals to advance so it was the obvious substitution to make.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I think, without checking, that England needed to beat Sweden to get out of the group and then failed to do so. We had an equally awful Euro 88. 

Denmark shouldn't have been there but were included for the reasons you say.

Statistically Euro '88 was probably the worst tournament we've ever been in: lost 1-0 to Ireland and 3-1 to Netherlands and the USSR.

I vaguely remember 1992 being a series of disappointing performances but we drew 0-0 with Denmark and France before losing from a winning position to Sweden. In hindsight, this wasn't that bad. 

Barring Euro '96 (and 2004 at a push), we've a really bad record at the Euros when you consider it. We didn't get out the groups in 2000, went out with a whimper in 2012, and 2016 doesn't need a mention. 

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Yes - I think that's the one. Needing to score two goals to advance so it was the obvious substitution to make.

They'd just equalised at that point and we only needed a win. 

Still a strange and infamous choice when we needed a goal. 

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8 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I could throw Scotland into the list.

It is boring for us, but rather fun for North Macedonia, Slovakia, Finland and Scotland. Of course, teh real reason is to ensure as many of the major economies as possible do qualify.

It is selfish of me of course; I don't think there'll be many Scottish fans who agree with my position! I didn't enjoy 2016 as much, and I currently haven't enjoyed this one as much as previously. It's nothing to do with England either, 2008 was an amazing tournament. 

As a compromise, I think a 20 team tournament could've worked with 4 groups of 5, and it going straight to quarter-finals. That way more are invited but it doesn't lose the intensity in the group stages. 

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19 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

They'd just equalised at that point and we only needed a win. 

Thanks - I wasn't quite sure of the circumstance.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

Thanks - I wasn't quite sure of the circumstance.

I was only 9 so I can only remember the general feeling of disappointment and relief when we finally scored a goal. 

To show my age, I saw England go 1 up before having to go to cubs 😂. When my dad picked me up he told me and I didn't believe him (he was a notorious wind-up). 

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Honestly that was so bad i would  barely believe it if i hadnt seen it numerous times before in tournaments . We consistently play below the sum of our parts and are just ###### to watch …. Slow , ponderous , no invention , no creativity , no cutting edge . Please drop the two midfield defenders system its utterly tedious watching them pass sideways and backwards very slowly . Weve seen before this has stymied us so southgate does it again . No drive or energy or forward passes there at all . Kane looks half an hour off the pace , Sterling was horrendous . The only guy looking lively was foden and he took the kid off , then plays grealish on the wing . I mean wtf? Southgate has imprinted his character on this team , very bland and unexciting . Dont lose and maybe we can nick it . You wont do owt until you go out there play uptempo like we do in this country and try and grab it . The more it went the less we looked like scoring , and eventually we had no centre foreard at all!

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11 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

At this rate, we might be avoiding the group of death! 

A draw with Czech Republic will be absolutely the best result, finishing runners up on goal difference,  then we'll play either Sweden or Slovakia as runner up in group E , assuming Spain win that group. 

Edited by HawkMan
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