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EURO 2020 ('21) THREAD


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2 hours ago, HawkMan said:

England MUST NOT WIN tonight. A draw will be perfect to avoid the big guns in last 16. I might watch the Scotland game, haven't decided yet, that has really something riding on it. 

ITV for England, ITV4 for Scotland game, STV for Scottish presentation and commentary of their game, but ITV2 also have England game, why?

 

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

I disagree I think England must win tonight . Firstly winning is what it’s all about , maybe build a bit of momentum to . I wouldn’t want to stutter into the knockouts with 1 average win . You’ve got to go to win and even win well . Secondly we get to stay at Wembley for another game with a bigger crowd which is a big thing . Neither Germany or Portugal are teams they’ve been in the past . Thirdly we will play France in the QF anyway if we come second , we want to avoid them if we can .

I think a very boring match is likely.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Send Mason Mount and Ben Chilwell home and fine them. Idiots. Read the riot act to the rest of the towering intellects that are the England soccer team and management. 

“Every single person is a fool, insane, a failure, or a bad person to at least ten people.”
― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

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26 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

 

I think a very boring match is likely.

Nailed on. Sterling to fail to take his (very llimited with this set-up) chances again because he  over complicates things and takes one step too many. Forget playing for a result that delivers the right opposition in the next stage, too. England owe it to the fans to put on a show before we get knocked out in the last 16. 

“Every single person is a fool, insane, a failure, or a bad person to at least ten people.”
― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

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2 hours ago, DavidM said:

I disagree I think England must win tonight . Firstly winning is what it’s all about , maybe build a bit of momentum to . I wouldn’t want to stutter into the knockouts with 1 average win . You’ve got to go to win and even win well . Secondly we get to stay at Wembley for another game with a bigger crowd which is a big thing . Neither Germany or Portugal are teams they’ve been in the past . Thirdly we will play France in the QF anyway if we come second , we want to avoid them if we can .

I completely agree. Friday has taken the wind out of the sails and we need something to gee people up again and feel like we could do something. The idea it will suddenly come good when we meet good opposition isn't borne out by any previous tournaments. Look at 2016 for a direct comparison, we played terribly in the final game got a 0-0 and then went out to Iceland.

I also think that we should be brave and bold enough to take the draw head on rather than trying to manage who we face in the next round. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I completely agree. Friday has taken the wind out of the sails and we need something to gee people up again and feel like we could do something. The idea it will suddenly come good when we meet good opposition isn't borne out by any previous tournaments. Look at 2016 for a direct comparison, we played terribly in the final game got a 0-0 and then went out to Iceland.

I also think that we should be brave and bold enough to take the draw head on rather than trying to manage who we face in the next round. 

 

 

Fundamentally, it’s basically never a good idea to play to lose or play to draw for 4D chess reasons.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

The crowd capacity at Wembley will be increased to more than 60,000 for the semi-finals and final of Euro 2020, says the UK government.

It means the stadium will be at 75% capacity for the games.

Wembley to be allowed at least 60,000 fans for Euro 2020 semi-finals and final - BBC Sport

French and Italians living here will be pleased 

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On 18/06/2021 at 06:50, Maximus Decimus said:

That lack of familiarity with many teams in the World Cup also means it doesn't feel that watered down. That allied with the fact that they represent far flung countries means that the perceived lack of competition matters far less. 

Adding North Macedonia, Slovakia, Finland etc to the Euros doesn't add any colour or interest because we play teams like this in qualifying all the time. It's just another 8 worse sides most of whom park the bus when they play anybody decent. 

The ironic thing about this, IMO, is that all of these teams mentioned above have been far more open and exciting to watch than England or Spain, who bore the pants off everyone while trying to play through and around teams rather than attacking them.

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The only surprising thing is that people are still surprised that England really are an average team and not the fantastic,world beaters we like to think we are.

The fact that even after all our glorious abject failures and pathetic showings that England fans can still be arrogant and condescending towards other nations is also unsurprising.

It's painful listening to and reading England fans and media discussing who we would play and who to avoid on our way to another historic win!

I guess once we (presumably) qualify tonight then we'll be the best team in the world again?

 

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On 19/06/2021 at 09:39, DavidM said:

It would be fine if we were just content that it was it group game , and we qualified if then you knew we were gonna switch it on and cut loose …. But that kind of tepid display is what we see repeatedly in tournaments and recently under Southgate .  I’m sitting there thinking I’ve seen this before . We get told oh we’ve got him and him and him , and him on the bench , and him not even on the bench …. And you watch us play , get outplayed and think ‘ is that it? ‘ . We seem to have a philosophy of not losing and then seeing wgst happens .We might score and get something to hang onto till the end . We’re passing it around aimlessly - even at the end we were doing it ! I have no faith this bloke is suddenly gonna unleash us . We basically have 6 defenders and then 4 guys totally disconnected from them . And the longer a game goes the worse we get . It’s frustrating because you just feel we drift along until we get knocked out rather than playing the up tempo style we play here and having a go . I mean I watched this all year for Everton 

I've said this for a while now, I just don't get the hype around England, around Southgate, around players like Sterling etc.

Admittedly I don't watch much top level football anymore, for the reasons you mentioned previously, It's slow, ponderous, boring and bland, but I just cannot see what others seemingly see about this "great" England team or it's bland, boring, defensive manager, tactics and the players who spend 80% of the game passing back to their goalkeeper.

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6 minutes ago, meast said:

The only surprising thing is that people are still surprised that England really are an average team and not the fantastic,world beaters we like to think we are.

The fact that even after all our glorious abject failures and pathetic showings that England fans can still be arrogant and condescending towards other nations is also unsurprising.

It's painful listening to and reading England fans and media discussing who we would play and who to avoid on our way to another historic win!

I guess once we (presumably) qualify tonight then we'll be the best team in the world again?

 

That's been England for at least the past 50 years. It's been like watching Brexitball.

Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination.

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1 minute ago, meast said:

I've said this for a while now, I just don't get the hype around England, around Southgate, around players like Sterling etc.

Admittedly I don't watch much top level football anymore, for the reasons you mentioned previously, It's slow, ponderous, boring and bland, but I just cannot see what others seemingly see about this "great" England team or it's bland, boring, defensive manager, tactics and the players who spend 80% of the game passing back to their goalkeeper.

I saw a pitch map of Declan Rice’s passing and it was just about all sideways and backwards . Between him and Phillips they passed it forward 10 times in the match . I’ve never seen the point in lots of pretty passing to keep possession … then after 20 passes they pass it back to the keeper who hoofs it up the pitch 

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26 minutes ago, meast said:

The ironic thing about this, IMO, is that all of these teams mentioned above have been far more open and exciting to watch than England or Spain, who bore the pants off everyone while trying to play through and around teams rather than attacking them.

Don't mistake being plucky battlers for being entertaining. 

If England were ranked 100 in the world, our games would have been dramatic and heroic. 

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12 minutes ago, Mister Ting said:

That's been England for at least the past 50 years. It's been like watching Brexitball.

Not necessarily, the 1990 team was workmanlike, but had players like Gascoigne, Waddle, Lineker etc who could turn it on and play some good stuff.

1996 was a fantastic attacking team, as well as Shearer, Sheringham, there was also Gazza, McManaman, Anderton all fine attacking players, who more often than not attacked the opposition.

The teams from 2002-2006 were also pretty attacking minded, but didn't have the tactical nouse or mental ability to be winners.

We also had some forgettable teams too '88/92/00/08/12/16 Euros specifically.

But in all that time, we at least provided some sort of excitement and entertainment, the last 5/6 years despite a very lucky WC semi final have been boring, bland and forgettable.

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19 minutes ago, meast said:

The only surprising thing is that people are still surprised that England really are an average team and not the fantastic,world beaters we like to think we are.

The fact that even after all our glorious abject failures and pathetic showings that England fans can still be arrogant and condescending towards other nations is also unsurprising.

It's painful listening to and reading England fans and media discussing who we would play and who to avoid on our way to another historic win!

I guess once we (presumably) qualify tonight then we'll be the best team in the world again?

 

I'm not sure I've ever heard an English person honestly claim we're the best team in the world.

England are consistently ranked in the top 10 nations in the world based on results. In the last 27 years we have played in all but one of the last 13 tournaments. If we were as bad as you like to think we are, then we wouldn't qualify in the first place. 

England's tournament failures are well documented, but there is more to it than supposedly being an average side. 

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17 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I saw a pitch map of Declan Rice’s passing and it was just about all sideways and backwards . Between him and Phillips they passed it forward 10 times in the match . I’ve never seen the point in lots of pretty passing to keep possession … then after 20 passes they pass it back to the keeper who hoofs it up the pitch 

It's awful, it's one of the main reasons I stopped watching professional football and went back to enjoying semi professional and amateur football.

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1 minute ago, meast said:

Not necessarily, the 1990 team was workmanlike, but had players like Gascoigne, Waddle, Lineker etc who could turn it on and play some good stuff.

1996 was a fantastic attacking team, as well as Shearer, Sheringham, there was also Gazza, McManaman, Anderton all fine attacking players, who more often than not attacked the opposition.

The teams from 2002-2006 were also pretty attacking minded, but didn't have the tactical nouse or mental ability to be winners.

We also had some forgettable teams too '88/92/00/08/12/16 Euros specifically.

But in all that time, we at least provided some sort of excitement and entertainment, the last 5/6 years despite a very lucky WC semi final have been boring, bland and forgettable.

The problem with idolising the 1990 and 1996 sides is that they don't hold up to much scrutiny. 

England were terrible to watch from about 2006 to 2016. The idea that things have been worse in the last 4/5 years is almost bizarre. 

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1 minute ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I'm not sure I've ever heard an English person honestly claim we're the best team in the world.

England are consistently ranked in the top 10 nations in the world based on results. In the last 27 years we have played in all but one of the last 13 tournaments. If we were as bad as you like to think we are, then we wouldn't qualify in the first place. 

England's tournament failures are well documented, but there is more to it than supposedly being an average side. 

I think you've said (or maybe Bob) but if you read the foreign press then they are always more complimentary about England than the English press. There is always a comment that England have underachieved but nowhere near as disastrously so as the black/white view you see fans over here say so often.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I'm not sure I've ever heard an English person honestly claim we're the best team in the world.

England are consistently ranked in the top 10 nations in the world based on results. In the last 27 years we have played in all but one of the last 13 tournaments. If we were as bad as you like to think we are, then we wouldn't qualify in the first place. 

England's tournament failures are well documented, but there is more to it than supposedly being an average side. 

England SHOULD be qualifying for tournaments, regardless, the fact that we apparently have so many world class players should also mean qualifying should be a must.

And if you think people don't think or say that England are world class then you must have been under a stone 🙂

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Just now, gingerjon said:

I think you've said (or maybe Bob) but if you read the foreign press then they are always more complimentary about England than the English press. There is always a comment that England have underachieved but nowhere near as disastrously so as the black/white view you see fans over here say so often.

Pre-tournament if you go to foreign websites we are often touted as a possible winner. This tournament we were always in the top 4.

Funnily enough, we are often tagged as a team that can't transfer our qualifying form into tournaments. 

 

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