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Relegation Off?


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Just now, Saint Toppy said:

The clubs didn't borrow money from the Government, the RFL did. The Government couldn't give a rats **** who's in SL and who isn't, its the RFL they'll be chasing for the repayments.

It will be 2024 before any new TV deal comes into play, so maybe for 2024 it would be viable for an expansion and use it as a bargaining tool with the TV companies. The clubs and the game as a whole just isn't in any sort of shape to go ahead with expansion before this.

If clubs go bankrupt because of government calling in loans of RFL in swing seats they will care. Government will fudge it before next election then come after money. That gives clubs 4-5 years to get back on track. Again, are we cancelling relegation then because on your own logic any club that goes down is dead? 

I don´t see why Sky would agree to give more money unless they´ve seen these new teams in the comp and seen the potential. 

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There is a pretty easy solution to this but it would have to wait until Leigh's relegation would be confirmed. So firstly announce that there will be no relegation from SL this year but the team that were due to get relegated as a thanks for staying in the division would then have to give up all their TV money. At around about the same time announce that the Championship playoffs will be scrapped in favor of a 2 up system that will see Fev and Toulouse promoted to SL. In exchange for such a generous gesture they will also be required to give up all their TV money for the following season.

This is going to create exactly what most people want with a 14 team SL, it gives a little bit of extra money to be distributed between the elite 11, and it also ensure that teams that could have been in danger of relegation will be safe for another year.

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5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

There is a pretty easy solution to this but it would have to wait until Leigh's relegation would be confirmed. So firstly announce that there will be no relegation from SL this year but the team that were due to get relegated as a thanks for staying in the division would then have to give up all their TV money. At around about the same time announce that the Championship playoffs will be scrapped in favor of a 2 up system that will see Fev and Toulouse promoted to SL. In exchange for such a generous gesture they will also be required to give up all their TV money for the following season.

This is going to create exactly what most people want with a 14 team SL, it gives a little bit of extra money to be distributed between the elite 11, and it also ensure that teams that could have been in danger of relegation will be safe for another year.

It doesn´t , instead of screwing one team, it screws the three with no tv money and also every club that is playing for a playoff game and the extra revenue. Leigh are down. Next season, 1 down and 2 up until we hit 14. 

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22 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If clubs go bankrupt because of government calling in loans of RFL in swing seats they will care. Government will fudge it before next election then come after money. That gives clubs 4-5 years to get back on track. Again, are we cancelling relegation then because on your own logic any club that goes down is dead? 

I don´t see why Sky would agree to give more money unless they´ve seen these new teams in the comp and seen the potential. 

You just have no understanding do you of just how bad a financial position the clubs and the game is in at the moment do you ?

 

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On 17/07/2021 at 18:28, DI Keith Fowler said:

If you wanted to fudge it to 14 you'd announce one team gets promoted on the field and the other is judged on last years applications and let London/York in claiming they were second to Leigh. Won't happen because the money's not there but that's how you'd do it. 

i just wanted to clear up any possible mis-understanding from my first response to this post. I was just being silly, with that crack about waving a wand and clicking my heels......... so please don't be offended? I agree with you, that what you propose  is a sensible way forward, to move from 12 to 14 in a mixed fashion. Cheers.

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4 hours ago, lingaro said:

bet you voted brexit too

Ha ha, what makes you think that? It  sounds like you've got a story to explain that one. 

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55 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

The Championship and L1 clubs receive approx £7.5M, the RFL approx £2.5M and the SL clubs the remaining £30M in the current deal. For the SL clubs to still be receiving the same after a £10M cut then nobody below SL including the RFL would have to receive anything at all, and thats not going to happen.

The money has gone below the agreed level whereby SL don't have to give a share to the Championship or League 1.  

So no, no one is getting a payment outside SL, you forget the £3.5m that goes towards Clubs Charitable Foundations. 

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As I understand it you have to play a certain number of games to make the play offs 

How about you have to play a certain number of games to be relegated ? 

I ask this as Leigh's game at home to Wire is now OFF , postponed , apparently due to Wire not having enough players due to covid , bloody marvelous 😉

 

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8 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

If there is no relegation from Super League and the Championship grand final winners are not allowed into Super League that will drive even more people away from the sport.

It's an answer to a question I didn't ask.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

It doesn´t , instead of screwing one team, it screws the three with no tv money and also every club that is playing for a playoff game and the extra revenue. Leigh are down. Next season, 1 down and 2 up until we hit 14. 

Screwing 3 Championship teams? I don't see the problem.

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

As I understand it you have to play a certain number of games to make the play offs 

How about you have to play a certain number of games to be relegated ? 

I ask this as Leigh's game at home to Wire is now OFF , postponed , apparently due to Wire not having enough players due to covid , bloody marvelous 😉

 

In the championship G Clubs are required to have played 70% of their league fixtures (16 out of 22 in the Betfred Championship) to qualify for the play-offs. BUT the bottom two teams in the Betfred Championship will be relegated – irrespective of how many fixtures they have played

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In the absurd event of p&r, it is doubly absurd to detarmine promotion by a play off system.

Such a system could allow say 4th team... miles behind on points... to get promoted over a team top of table by loads of points.

And if someone says that would never happen, then why bother with the play offs anyway!

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22 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

In the absurd event of p&r, it is doubly absurd to detarmine promotion by a play off system.

Such a system could allow say 4th team... miles behind on points... to get promoted over a team top of table by loads of points.

And if someone says that would never happen, then why bother with the play offs anyway!

Doubt anyone would say it couldn't happen.

Recently a team from 5th beat York at York, Leigh at Leigh, Toulouse at Toulouse and came within 23 minutes of Super League playing away at Toronto. Generally the teams that qualify for Playoffs are pretty good. 

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18 hours ago, Clogiron said:

That statement doesn't bear witness to past history, The Cougar's paid out a six figure sum to sign Daryl Powell then a week later Slimey Mo at the behest of the Dirty Digger pulled the rug from under them, of course he did it only in the best interests of the game,same as the position he took up as head of the European Super League.

Featherstone could well be the new Keighley.

Despite the digs at the facilities in WMDC and the relative improvement in stadium quality provided by Fev, the "powers that be" do not want more than one club in the top flight, but definitely want to keep one.

It is a true hotbed of RL, even considering the recent decline in participation.  (3/10 women's SL teams).

The obvious answer was the M-word, but we know the history of that. 

IMHO, if/when one of the current teams gets a significant stadium improvement, the other will be dropped like a stone. Further, I'd say Trinity would be their preferred choice due to a slightly bigger potential following for a successful team. Fans who see this death race are dismissed as paranoid tin-hatters, but the existential threat is real and increasing.

I would say successive local governments over the last 50 years have missed an opportunity to develop the unique selling point of a district where RL is the only professional sport. They haven't been convinced by the long-term potential of RL.

 

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11 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

In the absurd event of p&r, it is doubly absurd to detarmine promotion by a play off system.

Such a system could allow say 4th team... miles behind on points... to get promoted over a team top of table by loads of points.

And if someone says that would never happen, then why bother with the play offs anyway!

Except that 4th place team could still be the best team/squad to go up. The butterfly effect of time travel is a major consideration. If you change one thing, even the smallest tiniest detail, you can change everything thereafter. 

A team that is in a system with the play offs knows it needs to make the play offs as the first stage, then after they have to be on top form for knock out rugby. Therefore you enter the play offs at your peak. Before that you can rest players at points during the season, you can try out new combinations, youngsters etc knowing that the key is to hit the play offs with the best set up and with everyone in peak condition. Like it or not that's what they can do. 

Teams may aim for the top for an easier ride through and to take confidence but other teams decide to do it a different way.

If clubs know from day one that they must come top to go up then they plan and structure everything from day one of pre season (maybe even squad selection) to win every single league game. 

You cannot say, while we have the play offs, that the team that comes top is the best team etc because it just isn't the system in place and other teams are playing that system to the best of their advantage.. 

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On 18/07/2021 at 14:00, lucky 7 said:

Lets not forget that Wakey have been promising a new ground or a total refurb of thier ground for over 20 years and it's still a total dump.

Every time there are rumours meantioning about Super League and stadia they get some plans drawn up on the back of a fag packet

Well don't let the fact that they have just put up around £500,000 of new floodlights up well 3 out of 4 posts so far for accuracy, the East Stand is down to be demolished and replaced at the end of the season and the North Stand upgraded. Granted the latter is related to building work and permission at Stanley in Wakefield where the new ground was going to be. There could be delays who knows with our Local Authority but as it stands thats where Wakefield are.

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48 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Featherstone could well be the new Keighley.

Despite the digs at the facilities in WMDC and the relative improvement in stadium quality provided by Fev, the "powers that be" do not want more than one club in the top flight, but definitely want to keep one.

It is a true hotbed of RL, even considering the recent decline in participation.  (3/10 women's SL teams).

The obvious answer was the M-word, but we know the history of that. 

IMHO, if/when one of the current teams gets a significant stadium improvement, the other will be dropped like a stone. Further, I'd say Trinity would be their preferred choice due to a slightly bigger potential following for a successful team. Fans who see this death race are dismissed as paranoid tin-hatters, but the existential threat is real and increasing.

I would say successive local governments over the last 50 years have missed an opportunity to develop the unique selling point of a district where RL is the only professional sport. They haven't been convinced by the long-term potential of RL.

 

Yeah POTENTIAL because Cas knock spots off Wakey for attendances.

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38 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Yeah POTENTIAL because Cas knock spots off Wakey for attendances.

Crowds follow successful teams. Wakefield have not won a major competition since 1968. They haven't even contested a major final since 1979. Both Cas' and Fev's recent record is better. 

They have also been a financial basket case for a generation or two.

Which is why I said potential attendances. 

If WMDC had only one SL club and that club was reasonably successful with modern facilities (is that the biggest IF you've ever seen?), then a club carrying the Wakefield name would attract slightly bigger crowds (IMO).

That Wakefield can attract 5k+ with their current stadium facilities, financial limitations and recent record is strangely impressive. 

I would put current maximum potential, with RL in its current profile, as 15k for a 'Wakefield' team and 10k for a district team.

 

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17 hours ago, crashmon said:

Its not about putting a London team in Superleague

its how do you engage the population outside the M62, who don't even know the RL exists.  Like I said before you would fill 200K for a England v NZ International in Union. In League you would be lucky to get 60K for a world cup final.

Where I live, Basketball, Icy Hockey and Netball have more awareness than RL does.

 

Exactly so Crashmon, in my job for 30+ years I travelled the length and breadth of the country and in conversation would always extoll the virtues of Rugby League Football, just the word 'Rugby' would throw a lot of people into deep confusion and remarks like "There are two different games?" and "What's the difference then?" And the most alarming thing was I did not have to travel far from the so called M62 corridor to get both these comments and ignorance of the existance of the sport. 

The truth is the term "The Greatest Game" is only a figment of the imagination of those brought up with the sport or of those few who have been converted, teams in new areas will take a very long time to establish themselves in this country into a major player - especially if the soccer monster is prevalent - RL is an organic product and will take time to nurture and grow, those who believe a club will be successful by just being in SL because they are in an area of high populas are sadly mistaken.

 

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17 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

The Championship and L1 clubs receive approx £7.5M, the RFL approx £2.5M and the SL clubs the remaining £30M in the current deal. For the SL clubs to still be receiving the same after a £10M cut then nobody below SL including the RFL would have to receive anything at all, and thats not going to happen.

If it did just watch the building come tumbling down, because if it is even considered to undermine the foundations that will surely happen.

Firstly the semi pro clubs will go, the amatuer/community game will suffer, even less youngsters and players coming through, result being the sport dies and slow and painful death.

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17 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

You just have no understanding do you of just how bad a financial position the clubs and the game is in at the moment do you ?

 

This season is still operating on the back of the last year of the current SKY deal and so you are right. I think the clubs meet in August to face the bleak future they have.

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18 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

There is a pretty easy solution to this but it would have to wait until Leigh's relegation would be confirmed..............

This is going to create exactly what most people want with a 14 team SL..

I don't think people like Moran, Lenegan or McManus invited Mr. Beaumont into Superleague just to throw him out again, nor do I think Mr. Beaumont ever believed Leigh had a chance of avoiding bottom place......

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4 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I don't think people like Moran, Lenegan or McManus invited Mr. Beaumont into Superleague just to throw him out again, nor do I think Mr. Beaumont ever believed Leigh had a chance of avoiding bottom place......

They were not the ones inviting Leigh in.

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7 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

 Catalans and TO will need to sort out their own deal

There is no "deal" Catalans actually pay the French TV company to show their games because without TV coverage/exposure  Mr. Gausch believes the Catalans would suffer financially. That deal that costs Gausch money has ended anyway.

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