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Rugby league-could some lessons be learned from cricket?


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24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

How the novelty element holds up will be interesting to watch. I've watched hours of the stuff (or rather had it on in the background when working), but I suspect that novelty will wear off. Will they ultimately be left with T20 with cheap tickets, the same media coverage and the same TV audiences? 

I think one of the big things I've enjoyed has been the double header element with the women and the men. 

Women's cricket can be as entertaining as men's , similarly football , RL ? Nope , isn't , can't , never will be 

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12 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed it was. Yet what was an act of cynical cost cutting ended up inadvertently creating one of the most engaging bits of the tournament. At the Rose Bowl last week I reckon at least 5k including myself turned up early to see the women, they definitely wouldn't have got that number separately at Hove. 

I'd be interested to know whether the women want double headers to continue, or revert to having their own gamedays. 

The relevant question for rugby league would be: would regular women's superleague games before the men's match be better for women's rugby, and the SL brand as a whole? Or does it deny the women's game the separate events and attention they undoubtedly deserve? 

 

Women shouldn't play RL , so no 

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7 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed it was. Yet what was an act of cynical cost cutting ended up inadvertently creating one of the most engaging bits of the tournament.

Cynical cost cutting or a sensible approach given the Covid situation? I suppose it depends on how negative you want to be about things.

7 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

At the Rose Bowl last week I reckon at least 5k including myself turned up early to see the women, they definitely wouldn't have got that number separately at Hove.

Glad to see you're supporting the Southern Brave. I saw quite a few people at the Rosebowl with Brighton and Hove Albion FC shirts on, which was good to see. After all, it's not a Hampshire team, it's a team representing Hampshire and Sussex (and any other parts of the South who want to get involved). As you mentioned, the original plan was to play the women's matches in Hove.

7 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd be interested to know whether the women want double headers to continue, or revert to having their own gamedays.

Good question, and one that I'm sure they'll be asked, and one that the cricket authorities will have to consider. In some ways I think it would be nice for them to play at least one game in Hove - just for the benefit of Sussex fanbase. Plus it would be interesting to see what crowds they can draw on their own.

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9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Women's cricket can be as entertaining as men's , similarly football , RL ? Nope , isn't , can't , never will be 

I must admit I enjoyed watching the England RL women play Wales. I think it can certainly be as enjoyable, accepting that it will be different. I must say I rather hope the women's game doesn't just try to mimic the men's tactics and tries to shape itself. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I must admit I enjoyed watching the England RL women play Wales. I think it can certainly be as enjoyable, accepting that it will be different. I must say I rather hope the women's game doesn't just try to mimic the men's tactics and tries to shape itself. 

I think women’s RL is really good and much better than pretty much all the equivalent women’s games. But as you say, I hope it doesn’t just try to be like the mens game but focus on what makes it entertaining.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I must admit I enjoyed watching the England RL women play Wales. I think it can certainly be as enjoyable, accepting that it will be different. I must say I rather hope the women's game doesn't just try to mimic the men's tactics and tries to shape itself. 

I watched half an hour yesterday (London v Bedford) and it is obvious with body shapes and natural differences that it creates its own sport where it is hard for defence to dominate. Some passages of play remind me of the RL I grew up with, unstructured and good hands and offloads breaking defences down. Very different and entertaining for that.

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I must admit I enjoyed watching the England RL women play Wales. I think it can certainly be as enjoyable, accepting that it will be different. I must say I rather hope the women's game doesn't just try to mimic the men's tactics and tries to shape itself. 

Those tactics will produce winning teams , so yes they will 

By all means play the shortened versions , where the physical aspect is less of an issue , all IMO of course 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Those tactics will produce winning teams , so yes they will 

By all means play the shortened versions , where the physical aspect is less of an issue , all IMO of course 

That's good of you! 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I must admit I enjoyed watching the England RL women play Wales. I think it can certainly be as enjoyable, accepting that it will be different. I must say I rather hope the women's game doesn't just try to mimic the men's tactics and tries to shape itself. 

Seeing in the Hundred how an integrated event with equal attention and broadcasting has really helped the women's tournament take off, I reckon we'd have seen the same for the women's RLWC tournament. 

Another one of the many disastrous knock on effects of the world cup postponement, I just hope the beeb and everyone else still does the same next year and doesn't look to cut corners. 

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4 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Seeing in the Hundred how an integrated event with equal attention and broadcasting has really helped the women's tournament take off, I reckon we'd have seen the same for the women's RLWC tournament. 

Another one of the many disastrous knock on effects of the world cup postponement, I just hope the beeb and everyone else still does the same next year and doesn't look to cut corners. 

The one thing that struck me about the 2013 RLWC was that around 90% of the crowd stayed behind and watched Australia lift the trophy - despite the scoreline being 34-2. It was full and it was an event crowd.

My feeling is that for the Women's WC at Old Trafford - there would have been 50% of the crowd there during the first half and probably 80+% in the closing stages. That would have been an experience of a lifetime for those women taking part! Hope that is not lost.

Edited by Scubby
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The Women’s Cricket World Cup lifted the sport to another level especially with regards to raising awareness and yes it is different to the men’s game eg less power & strength but the skill levels are just as high.

The intention for the RLWC was to achieve something similar for Women’s RL and yes whilst it will be different to the Men’s game it will probably be more of a throwback to RL of previous years and none the worse for that.

As posted on this forum many times previously the real growth opportunity for RL is in the Women’s and Girls game

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

I have to disagree.  A great many team sports, i.e. soccer, baseball, hockey, ice hockey, handball, basketball, gridiron, Aussie football, hurling and Gaelic football all do quite well while only offering one form of their respective sport.

There are five-a-side and six-a-side versions of soccer alongside beach soccer, and that's before you get to futsal and others.

Baseball has softball.

There are indoor and mixed versions of hockey.

Ice hockey, not sure of.

Handball has beach handball. Plus some informal 'park' outdoor versions. There also used to be an 11 a side version.

Basketball has two versions in the Olympics just gone.

American football has flag football and different versions of tackle for women and amateurs.

Aussie football has different rules to cope with different numbers and rectangle pitches in Europe.

Hurling has camogie.

Gaelic football? Maybe.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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57 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed it was. Yet what was an act of cynical cost cutting ended up inadvertently creating one of the most engaging bits of the tournament. At the Rose Bowl last week I reckon at least 5k including myself turned up early to see the women, they definitely wouldn't have got that number separately at Hove. 

The little dears should be grateful.

The women's game being shafted by the double headers has been shown twice (I believe) in the past week as their games have been lost to the weather whilst the following men's games have gone ahead.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There are five-a-side and six-a-side versions of soccer alongside beach soccer, and that's before you get to futsal and others.

Baseball has softball.

There are indoor and mixed versions of hockey.

Ice hockey, not sure of.

Handball has beach handball. Plus some informal 'park' outdoor versions. There also used to be an 11 a side version.

Basketball has two versions in the Olympics just gone.

American football has flag football and different versions of tackle for women and amateurs.

Aussie football has different rules to cope with different numbers and rectangle pitches in Europe.

Hurling has camogie.

Gaelic football? Maybe.

I was speaking of offerings for the public in the form of professional competitions, other forms are of no consequence.  Softball is a separate sport from baseball too.

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

I was speaking of offerings for the public in the form of professional competitions, other forms are of no consequence.  Softball is a separate sport from baseball too.

Softball and baseball share a common global governing body. They're closer than rugby union and rugby 7s in many ways.

There are professionals in beach soccer, futsal, beach handball, 3x3 basketball and others.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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28 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The little dears should be grateful.

The women's game being shafted by the double headers has been shown twice (I believe) in the past week as their games have been lost to the weather whilst the following men's games have gone ahead.

Yes, I did see that as a huge flaw a couple of weeks back. The men's game was given every opportunity to be played, the women's game appeared to be written off rather early. 

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30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Softball and baseball share a common global governing body. They're closer than rugby union and rugby 7s in many ways.

No they're not closer than RU and rugby 7s.  The latter two are played under more or less the same rules and on the same size field with the same size ball, as far as I know only the number of players and playing time are different.

With baseball and softball the ball is a different size, it's pitched differently (overhand in one, underhand in the other) and from a different distance away from the batter, the diamonds are a different size, etc.  They're only under one governing body because the IOC classified them as two different disciplines of one sport rather than as different sports although no one in North America would say that they're the same sport.  If the IOC were to do that with RU and RL — which is certainly possible in view of that precedent — would you accept that those are disciplines of the same sport too?

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

No they're not closer than RU and rugby 7s.  The latter two are played under more or less the same rules and on the same size field with the same size ball, as far as I know only the number of players and playing time are different.

With baseball and softball the ball is a different size, it's pitched differently (overhand in one, underhand in the other) and from a different distance away from the batter, the diamonds are a different size, etc.  They're only under one governing body because the IOC classified them as two different disciplines of one sport rather than as different sports although no one in North America would say that they're the same sport.  If the IOC were to do that with RU and RL — which is certainly possible in view of that precedent — would you accept that those are disciplines of the same sport too?

So different size field, different size ball ... kind of like men’s and women’s cricket then.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I did see that as a huge flaw a couple of weeks back. The men's game was given every opportunity to be played, the women's game appeared to be written off rather early. 

It’s a massive flaw and rather shows, when combined with the salaries and the actual times the matches are playing at, what the organisers really think of the women’s side of things.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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52 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

So different size field, different size ball ... kind of like men’s and women’s cricket then.

Interestingly the field size differs from the international to the domestic game 

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22 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Interestingly the field size differs from the international to the domestic game 

I was in Derbyshire a couple of years ago assisting the logistics teams for my wifes business with the signage.

 

The boundary sponsors for the T/Twenty (Vitality) was set around 20m in from the county championship boundary and the  one for the women (Kia) another 10m seriously my 10 year would have been scoring sixes off every ball: ) LOL

 

Paul

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5 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

So, just to recap, what lessons did everyone agree rugby league could learn from cricket? Can someone please make a list of them.

 1 Become a sport appreciated across much of England and bits of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales;

2 As a result, get some decent coverage in the national media.

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5 hours ago, Big Picture said:

I have to disagree.  A great many team sports, i.e. soccer, baseball, hockey, ice hockey, handball, basketball, gridiron, Aussie football, hurling and Gaelic football all do quite well while only offering one form of their respective sport.

Football offers 5-a-side, 6-a-side, 7-a-side, indoor football, beach football and (yes, I'm counting it) e-football - all well organised and accessible to encourage participation. These forms of the sport are particularly good at engaging demographics that don't ordinarily attend live games. 

With RL, whilst there is some work being done in areas like touch and tag, it is seriously under-funded and under-promoted. If you want to participate in the community game, you're largely expected to commit to the full amateur 13_a-side game or not at all. 

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