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League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)


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9 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Fact based - that is open to discussion.

When asking the question '' what do we need to do in order to become the best we can be?'' the same answers will come up.

1. Generate more income into the game 

2. Increase player pool

3. Create a regular international programme (again)

4. Support and develop the game in schools/Universities

 

Without 1 the rest dont happen!!

We need high quality and competitive Elite fixtures played in front of full houses with significant away support - why? Atmosphere and away support go hand in hand - they become part of the match day experience we must make better to get more fans through turnstyles and make the TV audience feel part of a great exciting event - the ooh's and aah's make a huge difference on TV.

We need to create a pathway for ambitious clubs to grow into and from, SL2 will be a highly competitive league that fans would look forward to and clubs can consolidate and grow from - from playing at Headingley in front of 15000 to playing at Swinton in front of 300 is a huge gap

We must build France as a real international force - I would have Cats, TO plus more in the 20. A 5/6 Nations with a strong France every Autumn would be a great event.

Playing numbers start at schools and even in the heartlands the game isnt played these days - we start with the low hanging fruit and work out. A realistic goal could be 100 development officers tasked with growing school number by 1m. Elite clubs should be supporting Universities with coaches, dieticians etc working with the development officers to raise RL's profile in this vital sector - they will be holding  tomorrows advertising/sponsorship budgets

Roll on 2 x 10 at long last

I´d say without 3 1 doesn´t happen. Internationals are when RL in northern hemisphere is leaving several million pounds on the table in commercial sponsors for nations and a tv tournament. 

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2 hours ago, steve oates said:

I like your posts as they always seem to be fact based and it's a fact Superleague needs to run such that we have people who can pay good salaries to attract and develop good players and that means the rich club owners.

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

As for loop fixtures I wish they didn't exist, but a third Wigan.v.Saints or Hull.v.HKR certainly pulls in above average SL crowds and I'd guess the TV audience will be above average. Showing them London and Featherstone (with deep respect) "for a change" won't go down well and is it really a fact that people watch all games religiously, I don't think I've watched many "all three fixtures" between any two clubs in a season?

I think we would have the quality players if there were more options at top level. You adapt to where you play, we need 10 years of 14 teams to allow the youth to grow into the opportunities, we won't develop enough for 14 teams if we only have 12 or 10

They also need to be paid a decent wage otherwise going players will and do seek other careers 

Edited by David Dockhouse Host
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26 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I´d say without 3 1 doesn´t happen. Internationals are when RL in northern hemisphere is leaving several million pounds on the table in commercial sponsors for nations and a tv tournament. 

Took the words out of my mouth. It’s just as much about awareness and that comes from the occasions of internationals 

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1 hour ago, redjonn said:

I agree but my point was that the assumption that more internationals given the NRL reluctance will immediately provide an answer to whatever ills. Yes we want a strong NH international scene that broadcaster/sponsors will compete to finance and hence bring in profile and monies to the sport.  That will take time to grow from where we are.

In the meantime we have an immediate financial problem for the clubs.  The solution needs to be more pragmatic then some idealistic wish list that hasn't been their for a long time. 

 

I wholeheartedly support more internationals but accept it will be difficult to make them financially successful in the short term (unless they are very savvy).

But doing nothing for decades because "they aren't really good enough" hasn't worked to make them good enough.

The immediate financial problem as I said is one almost entirely of our own making due to our self imposed fragility. If it wasn't covid, it would be sky cutting the TV deal that would have brought this about - remember the reports that in early 2020 their opening bid was half of the current deal per year? Regardless we have had money and it has been squandered on things that have not grown the game or its appeal. That should have been the focus as soon as the ink was dry on the last deal, now we're playing catchup.

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

I've said before but the last bumper TV deal was the golden opportunity to make a real difference to the game.  It should have allowed the game to make the pie bigger, diversify the offering and improve the product. Instead it was wasted.

Absolutely, instead we have done nothing significant to either justify an equal or increased amount in the next deal or invested the sums into strengthening the game in that time.

At least Wigan and Salford "improved" their badges though... won't Sky be impressed by this basic keeping up with the times principle.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely, instead we have done nothing significant to either justify an equal or increased amount in the next deal or invested the sums into strengthening the game in that time.

At least Wigan and Salford improved their badges though...

You think so ? 😂

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In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

 

 

 

 

Ron Banks

Bears and Barrow

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2 minutes ago, Bearman said:

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

 

 

 

 

So next year's magic will be a 9's festival at the LSV 

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9 minutes ago, Bearman said:

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

 

 

 

 

I don´t my Sky wanting their money´s worth. They are under huge pressure from streaming. It´s the rfl´s job to make the case for a 14 team league being value if they want it or get a fta provider on board to spread the risk. 

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46 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

I think we would have the quality players if there were more options ar too level. You adapt to where you play, we need 10 years of 14 teams to allow the youth to grow into the opportunities, we won't develop enough for 14 teams if we only have 12 or 10

Thanks for your reply David but I don't we have enough quality youth players who can grow into the "opportunities".

Every Superleague club makes sure they pick up half a team or more of ex-NRL players including the naughty ones, the lazy ones, the past it ones, the done something wrong and got chucked out ones.  Then they manage half a team of quality English players  after which the best young lads from their academies make up the numbers.

I can remember when there were no players coming from "down under" and we filled teams with English talent.....

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13 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Thanks for your reply David but I don't we have enough quality youth players who can grow into the "opportunities".

Every Superleague club makes sure they pick up half a team or more of ex-NRL players including the naughty ones, the lazy ones, the past it ones, the done something wrong and got chucked out ones.  Then they manage half a team of quality English players  after which the best young lads from their academies make up the numbers.

I can remember when there were no players coming from "down under" and we filled teams with English talent.....

Plus, the days of us getting some of the best NRL talent is gone. Better to just build are own. But that means you need an academy to be in SL (or a joint academy) or ###### off. For example, I´d like to see Leigh and Salford work together to start a Manchester academy myself. 

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19 minutes ago, Bearman said:

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

I do think Sky are not as sympathetic as they once were. Long standing RL people in the organisation, Neville Smith, Eddie and Stevo are now all gone - as are the Murdochs at the top. Comcast don't care about a 30 year relationship if the product isn't delivering the interest (and therefore audience) they want for the price they are paying.

Under Elstone they did a review. I can't remember if it was something Sky did because they were asked to by Elstone or off their own backs. Nevertheless this highlighted what Sky saw as weaknesses in the product, weaknesses in the game and weaknesses in the individual clubs. This report has never been made public - but as an audit of the game (hoping that it is an honest appraisal) it is undoubtedly a resource that the RFL, SL and the clubs should at least be very considerate of. With their investment, Sky are the single largest stakeholder in the game.

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Whatever happens, all the club's should sign an agreement not to change things again for another 10 years. 😁

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1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Thanks for your reply David but I don't we have enough quality youth players who can grow into the "opportunities".

Every Superleague club makes sure they pick up half a team or more of ex-NRL players including the naughty ones, the lazy ones, the past it ones, the done something wrong and got chucked out ones.  Then they manage half a team of quality English players  after which the best young lads from their academies make up the numbers.

I can remember when there were no players coming from "down under" and we filled teams with English talent.....

I think it's chicken and egg situation Steve.

Without opportunities, players will go elsewhere, clubs will sign NRL quick fixes.

The situation isn't great for young players, after the academy, they will, if lucky enough be offered a full time contract. This for most will be approx £20k. This sounds great, 19 year old, no quals, playing the game they love and being developed all whilst being paid. Or alternatively, I'm being tied down on a low wage, cannot start a job and get a skill or work experience, I'm unlikely to break into the first team for a few years, in which time I'll not play as there's no reserves or linked loan options. If they don't fancy me in a couple of years I'm searching for a Championship club, part time, low wage, often tied in with games and wins and still no trade or real life work experience. 

The attraction of having a social life, getting a job, some quals and a potential career that will last longer than rugby is quite attractive.

Some stay, some leave, some lose interest, it's not that there aren't enough good players I truly believe they are, just the options, the money isn't very attractive, yes there are exceptions, the highly gifted will get more money, those who don't want a real job will take the rugby option but we lose so many.

There's also many drop out between 14-18 in the community game as they feel options have passed.

An NRL player on a good wage can be quick easy and possibly cheaper paying 6 youth a good wage when not all will make it on your system.

So for me it isn't the players but the options, increase teams, increase options, the difficult is and pretty much always has been money, RU and football can pay youth good wages to stop them considering the work option.

I'm not blaming clubs, they do work hard with youth, those with academies, they have to balance the books and manage within their means, it's the situation RL is in, and without further major investment it's worrying.

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2 hours ago, Bearman said:

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of 9s but agree it could work for RL just like 20/20 has for cricket.

For me the magic weekend being a 9s tournament sounds ideal

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Just now, David Dockhouse Host said:

I'm not a fan of 9s but agree it could work for RL just like 20/20 has for cricket.

For me the magic weekend being a 9s tournament sounds ideal

At the LSV ?

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1 minute ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

The ones we've used for magic already, the ones fans have liked, Cardiff and Newcastle I believe are the most popular

So you want 3/4,000 rattling around St James's Park ?

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  • John Drake changed the title to League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

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