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League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)


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30 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Absolutely inexcusable! 

Hopefully all involved are okay and have been offered counselling ūüėä

I always think it's weird at some grounds like Belle Vue they only take cash for beer.... Surely limits the sales? 

Lol I know. But like my mate said. They probably lost ¬£400. In profit which could find a couple of young Un's for a bit. Plus it was cans and won't go out of date for a year. ūüėÉ Ok yes I fancied a beer.

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Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

True and that's because the reality is 12 clubs is too many for a 'Super' Super League, let alone 14.

The number, whatever it is, should be based upon ability to fund a squad capable of competing and enhancing the product to the broadcaster

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1 hour ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Do you have evidence that the broadcaster has told RL that the ref standards are diabolical? 

If you think their are humans who can ref a game without making an error then I believe you will be saying the about refs next year, the year after and so on for ever.

Refs control the spectacle and all too often the outcome these days, mistakes will always be made and no one should say one mistake killed the spectacle because it won’t. Allowing head holds in the grapple, slowing down the PTB unevenly, policing the 10 unevenly, trying to be profile players best mates instead of only allowing the captain to talk etc are the ownership they must take. It’s little wonder we lost Fitzpatrick and the Wigan brothers prematurely replacing them with the Smiths, Mikalauskis etc of the world

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12 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Refs control the spectacle and all too often the outcome these days, mistakes will always be made and no one should say one mistake killed the spectacle because it won’t. Allowing head holds in the grapple, slowing down the PTB unevenly, policing the 10 unevenly, trying to be profile players best mates instead of only allowing the captain to talk etc are the ownership they must take. It’s little wonder we lost Fitzpatrick and the Wigan brothers prematurely replacing them with the Smiths, Mikalauskis etc of the world

I disagree, refs are more even than fans 

And the evidence of the broadcaster telling RL, where this?

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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

That's hard to take mate.

Being happy with a crowd of 2,600 when these two clubs once shared 15,000 season ticket holders is a real sign of the times.

Also for those basing the future potential of Toulouse on sparse crowds a couple of years ago, Bradford and Halifax really show how even being a competitive championship club cannot really help you attract a wider audience that is only interested in elite sport.

 

100% agree, that¬īs what makes Newcastle so exciting. 1500 in the second tier for a game that didn¬īt have much riding on it. Imagine what Newcastle can do if Leeds or Hull came to town...¬†

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11 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

 

100% agree, that¬īs what makes Newcastle so exciting. 1500 in the second tier for a game that didn¬īt have much riding on it. Imagine what Newcastle can do if Leeds or Hull came to town...¬†

We've stopped imagining that's the problem. Cut your cloth is the new strategy document title. 

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1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I did read it and I stick to my point that holding Storm up as a success is contentious at best

If you offered me £200 million we could create something similar in London no doubt. However I'd prefer that money to be spent across generating ground roots development from facilities, development officers, schools etc - in both the south and the heartlands... A successful franchise in London would be a cherry on top of a grassroots success - same with storm 

Weirdly our grassroots development in London is doing well with very limited funding... Unlike Melbourne we get the pick of the best union cast offs 

If good money was invested in the community game in London then it could become a strong area for producing players which would not only benefit the Broncos and Skolars but the game of RL in general

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1 hour ago, Mumby Magic said:

Quick note in self sufficiency. Halifax Bradford game. Ran out of beer etc by half time. I can wait for a beer but surely there's missed revenue there when it is normally Halifax's biggest attendance if the season.

Aye would be a big problem if we actually made anything off our beer sales. We don't so it doesn't really matter.

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5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Aye would be a big problem if we actually made anything off our beer sales. We don't so it doesn't really matter.

And that's another big issue many clubs face.

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On 31/07/2021 at 20:51, welshmagpie said:

More international rugby league is the answer to less fixtures. 

I would like to see international rugby at the top of the tree and played more regular. Never-the-less it isn't at the moment a huge revenue earner unless teams come from Southern Hemisphere.

Yes would love to have France up their challenging an England side but at the moment the home nations games whenever played have not been well attended and not sure big TV asset....

Its what you do until having the great international money earner and growing it assuming limited to NH, with occasional tour. Here I am assuming lack of interest from NRL clubs.

I just don't see the monies from internationals as we would expect now given lack of enthusiasm from NRL making up for the loss of money to SL clubs here.

We have to bridge the two...

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15 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I would like to see international rugby at the top of the tree and played more regular. Never-the-less it isn't at the moment a huge revenue earner unless teams come from Southern Hemisphere.

Yes would love to have France up their challenging an England side but at the moment the home nations games whenever played have not been well attended and not sure big TV asset....

Its what you do until having the great international money earner and growing it assuming limited to NH, with occasional tour. Here I am assuming lack of interest from NRL clubs.

I just don't see the monies from internationals as we would expect now given lack of enthusiasm from NRL making up for the loss of money to SL clubs here.

We have to bridge the two...

The fact Northern Hemisphere internationals aren't now an event we can monetise reliably is entirely a problem of us not fixing the roof while the Sun was shining.

The impetus for England needing competitive rivals not dependent on the NRL has never been greater yet our ability to invest in this growth has not been weaker for 25 years.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

The fact Northern Hemisphere internationals aren't now an event we can monetise reliably is entirely a problem of us not fixing the roof while the Sun was shining.

The impetus for England needing competitive rivals not dependent on the NRL has never been greater yet our ability to invest in this growth has not been weaker for 25 years.

I agree but my point was that the assumption that more internationals given the NRL reluctance will immediately provide an answer to whatever ills. Yes we want a strong NH international scene that broadcaster/sponsors will compete to finance and hence bring in profile and monies to the sport.  That will take time to grow from where we are.

In the meantime we have an immediate financial problem for the clubs.  The solution needs to be more pragmatic then some idealistic wish list that hasn't been their for a long time. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The fact Northern Hemisphere internationals aren't now an event we can monetise reliably is entirely a problem of us not fixing the roof while the Sun was shining.

The impetus for England needing competitive rivals not dependent on the NRL has never been greater yet our ability to invest in this growth has not been weaker for 25 years.

I've said before but the last bumper TV deal was the golden opportunity to make a real difference to the game.  It should have allowed the game to make the pie bigger, diversify the offering and improve the product. Instead it was wasted.

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3 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Shrinking the professional game further is the symptom. The cause is the game is shrinking from grass roots, junior, amateur to international. Having the same teams play each other even more often isn't going to solve anything nor is having no international calendar.

Unfortunately I agree. The drop in standards is due to the declining numbers of juniors playing the game.

The focus needs to be on expanding the junior game both in the heartlands and the areas such as Newcastle, London, Midlands, Wales etc. 

If the numbers of juniors playing the game increases then there should be more players coming through into the professional game which can then help fuel expansion

Edited by JM2010
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3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

True and that's because the reality is 12 clubs is too many for a 'Super' Super League, let alone 14.

I like your posts as they always seem to be fact based and it's a fact Superleague needs to run such that we have people who can pay good salaries to attract and develop good players and that means the rich club owners.

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

As for loop fixtures I wish they didn't exist, but a third Wigan.v.Saints or Hull.v.HKR certainly pulls in above average SL crowds and I'd guess the TV audience will be above average. Showing them London and Featherstone (with deep respect) "for a change" won't go down well and is it really a fact that people watch all games religiously, I don't think I've watched many "all three fixtures" between any two clubs in a season?

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25 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

Aye, Steve, if we had 20 clubs willing and able to spend full cap, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But as we all know there aren’t enough 'Super' clubs in Super League and I can see why Sky & the RFL wants changes. 

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26 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I like your posts as they always seem to be fact based and it's a fact Superleague needs to run such that we have people who can pay good salaries to attract and develop good players and that means the rich club owners.

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

As for loop fixtures I wish they didn't exist, but a third Wigan.v.Saints or Hull.v.HKR certainly pulls in above average SL crowds and I'd guess the TV audience will be above average. Showing them London and Featherstone (with deep respect) "for a change" won't go down well and is it really a fact that people watch all games religiously, I don't think I've watched many "all three fixtures" between any two clubs in a season?

Think it¬īs the type of games. London vs Fev maybe not but Toulouse vs Catalan? Tick. 7000 for York vs Leeds, that would be good. Newcastle vs one of the big 5 uk clubs on a weekend. Yep.¬†

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18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Aye, Steve, if we had 20 clubs willing and able to spend full cap, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But as we all know there aren’t enough 'Super' clubs in Super League and I can see why Sky & the RFL wants changes. 

Spend full cap on whom?

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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The game is in the last chance saloon but even now I dont believe some of the clownswho run the clubs really believe it. Last chance to smell the coffee.

If you dont add anything to Super League,other than existing,go.

If you have pathetic inadequate facilities,go.

If you cant fill a quarter of your ground,go.

If your revenue is based on 15 match day games,go.

If geographically,you are next door to another club,go.

Frankly,that doesn't leave many but at least give someone elsea chance because the above clubs have failed.

Last chance,forget tradition,make the changes or say good bye to professional RL and to Sky and no one elsewill come in to save you,other than paying a few quid here and there.

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Fact based - that is open to discussion.

When asking the question '' what do we need to do in order to become the best we can be?'' the same answers will come up.

1. Generate more income into the game 

2. Increase player pool

3. Create a regular international programme (again)

4. Support and develop the game in schools/Universities

 

Without 1 the rest dont happen!!

We need high quality and competitive Elite fixtures played in front of full houses with significant away support - why? Atmosphere and away support go hand in hand - they become part of the match day experience we must make better to get more fans through turnstyles and make the TV audience feel part of a great exciting event - the ooh's and aah's make a huge difference on TV.

We need to create a pathway for ambitious clubs to grow into and from, SL2 will be a highly competitive league that fans would look forward to and clubs can consolidate and grow from - from playing at Headingley in front of 15000 to playing at Swinton in front of 300 is a huge gap

We must build France as a real international force - I would have Cats, TO plus more in the 20. A 5/6 Nations with a strong France every Autumn would be a great event.

Playing numbers start at schools and even in the heartlands the game isnt played these days - we start with the low hanging fruit and work out. A realistic goal could be 100 development officers tasked with growing school number by 1m. Elite clubs should be supporting Universities with coaches, dieticians etc working with the development officers to raise RL's profile in this vital sector - they will be holding  tomorrows advertising/sponsorship budgets

Roll on 2 x 10 at long last

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5 minutes ago, cookey said:

The game is in the last chance saloon but even now I dont believe some of the clownswho run the clubs really believe it. Last chance to smell the coffee.

If you dont add anything to Super League,other than existing,go. - all clubs could add something at sometime

If you have pathetic inadequate facilities,go. - agree

If you cant fill a quarter of your ground,go. - agree

If your revenue is based on 15 match day games,go. - agree

If geographically,you are next door to another club,go. - that wont leave many so who stays between Wigan/Saints and Wire?

Frankly,that doesn't leave many but at least give someone elsea chance because the above clubs have failed. - have they?

Last chance,forget tradition,make the changes or say good bye to professional RL and to Sky and no one elsewill come in to save you,other than paying a few quid here and there. - tradition doesnt pay bills but neither does ignoring tradition. The solution is Min salary spends not caps, backed up with any losses must be met that same year, not DR's

 

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  • John Drake changed the title to League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

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