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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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11 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

It is definitely to get the stadium built.  Worry would be once It has been built they dont need you but if cornwall are knocking on door of SL in 4 years could have legs. 

I think you are right in your assessment of their motives and to be wary of what might happen afterwards as in the Sale/Salford debacle.

I think its important that the Cornwall RL team enter into it was equal partners with the other two sporting clubs. 

 

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51 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I think its important that the Cornwall RL team enter into it was equal partners with the other two sporting clubs. 

How can you expect a brand new club to be an equal partner to an existing, well-established club ?

Why would the well-established club allow that ?

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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3 minutes ago, Griff said:

How can you expect a brand new club to be an equal partner to an existing, well-established club ?

Why would the well-established club allow that ?

If they don't own the facility then it isn't up to them. If the new club has the finance they can easily be equal partners.

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26 minutes ago, Griff said:

How can you expect a brand new club to be an equal partner to an existing, well-established club ?

Why would the well-established club allow that ?

Because they wont get a new stadium without it. Cornwall ru cannot play in prem without it so a share of something is better than 100% nothing. 

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57 minutes ago, Damien said:

If they don't own the facility then it isn't up to them. If the new club has the finance they can easily be equal partners.

Under the current plan AIUI Pirates are in the driving seat with Truro FC as their enabling tenants. 

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2 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

Under the current plan AIUI Pirates are in the driving seat with Truro FC as their enabling tenants. 

I know but that really doesn't mean much for a proposed community stadium that only has half the funding. Money talks.

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Just now, Damien said:

It indeed would. It would certainly show their intent and would show they had the backing. We can only hope.

If I were a cynic, I could see a case for this whole thing being a year of fun for the backers in a nice location before they pop up in one of whichever big cities they're currently talking to on the quiet. Because if they're actually serious then it's going to take a lot of cash and no guarantees of it going anywhere. Hopefully it's the latter (them being serious).

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

How can you expect a brand new club to be an equal partner to an existing, well-established club ?

Why would the well-established club allow that ?

Well based on the fact that the brand new club, is a newly constituted business, entering into a relationship with other businesses, in order to fully utilise an as-yet non existent asset, and to provide the basis to justify financial support from local (and maybe) national government.

They could take the view ''you need us, to argue that the asset will be fully utilised (in order to get the necessary grant aid) so we demand we partake as equal partners''.

The fact that the business is new, doesn't mean that the proprietors are naive, or immature, or in need of patronage, (or to be patronised), or should feel like second class contributors to the future stability of the asset in question. 

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49 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

If I were a cynic, I could see a case for this whole thing being a year of fun for the backers in a nice location before they pop up in one of whichever big cities they're currently talking to on the quiet. Because if they're actually serious then it's going to take a lot of cash

Didn't we think the League One clubs would all fold without the  "Lot of cash" SKY money?  

There's some level of resilience with these clubs as Skolars and West Wales show. 

We had clubs in Hemel, Gloucester, Oxford, South Wales and Kent. Didn't Bristol look to form a club but got told no?

Add to that Coventry and it'd be a tidy ten club league in itself  if they all had another bash at it  together?

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25 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Well based on the fact that the brand new club, is a newly constituted business, entering into a relationship with other businesses, in order to fully utilise an as-yet non existent asset, and to provide the basis to justify financial support from local (and maybe) national government.

They could take the view ''you need us, to argue that the asset will be fully utilised (in order to get the necessary grant aid) so we demand we partake as equal partners''.

The fact that the business is new, doesn't mean that the proprietors are naive, or immature, or in need of patronage, (or to be patronised), or should feel like second class contributors to the future stability of the asset in question. 

I'm not convinced.  I'll wait and see.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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1 hour ago, iffleyox said:

If I were a cynic, I could see a case for this whole thing being a year of fun for the backers in a nice location before they pop up in one of whichever big cities they're currently talking to on the quiet. Because if they're actually serious then it's going to take a lot of cash and no guarantees of it going anywhere. Hopefully it's the latter (them being serious).

I am a cynic.

I query why Coventry Bears should take their first team away from the city after being in League 1 for a number of years.

Gateshead Thunder jumped into bed with Newcastle rugby union club after being Gateshead for nearly two decades.

West Wales had previously been in several south Wales locations.

When will it end and when will supporters ever be considered?

Hemel Stags lost their licence after being formed in the early 80's.

We now have an owner of 2 clubs.One in Ottawa and one in Cornwall.If this is the way ahead is someone asking wealthy owners,that fella from films who owns South Sidney Rabbitohs,to fund an English club? 

No conflict of interests? Certainly not if Bradford are involved.

Are there any rules anymore? Does proof of tenancy at a particular stadium still apply?

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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1 minute ago, Griff said:

I'm not convinced.  I'll wait and see.

Well, what's the alternative? I say, if we can't be equals, we shouldn't help them get it done. 

You may be right and the existing businesses have the upper hand and will not grant equal status but then, stand-by for high rents and no income generating opportunities during home games.

How many examples do we have of this disastrous relationship (to learn the lesson from).

Then just wait for the ultimate humiliation of being forced out, (by a huge hike in the rent) because the RaRa club got the promotion they always dreamed of and now no longer need a tenant to help pay the bills.

Or just as likely, are cajoled to force us out as part of the ''terms'' of their becoming courtiers to Ra, the great god of the Dark Side.

Anyway, I'm just asserting my view, that to enter into this kind of second class (cap in hand) relationship would be a folly and ought to be unacceptable to the new club.

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1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Well, what's the alternative?

Whatever the parties agree.

It's not for us to say.  It's literally none of our business and I don't understand the depth of discussion.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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1 minute ago, Griff said:

Whatever the parties agree.

It's not for us to say.  It's literally none of our business and I don't understand the depth of discussion.

If you'd rather not discuss it with me, that's ok Griff.

I suppose I'm just anticipating what might happen, if we are not equal partners in the new stadium project and it seems to me that, anything other than equality leaves us eternally vulnerable (with no leverage in any future negotiations about use of the ground, or share of any revenue generated).

Don't you have an opinion about whether they should demand equal status?

Or are you saying that (because its a rugby league club) they should be happy as the ''poor relation''? 

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

 

Don't you have an opinion about whether they should demand equal status?

Or are you saying that (because its a rugby league club) they should be happy as the ''poor relation''? 

My view is if they haven't got this sorted already (almost regardless of what was actually agreed) then they're on a hiding to nothing because there's going to be one sensible place this will work in Cornwall in terms of grounds, and the way to it goes through Cornish Pirates. Everything else is scratching on the sidelines - plenty of other grounds, but none that would bear level 2 or 3 RL, with the potential exception of the Mennaye Field (Pirates' current ground) - but that's even further away in Penzance.

The long term goal of the club, assuming they've got one, has got to be playing at the Stadium for Cornwall.

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22 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

My view is if they haven't got this sorted already (almost regardless of what was actually agreed) then they're on a hiding to nothing because there's going to be one sensible place this will work in Cornwall in terms of grounds, and the way to it goes through Cornish Pirates. Everything else is scratching on the sidelines - plenty of other grounds, but none that would bear level 2 or 3 RL, with the potential exception of the Mennaye Field (Pirates' current ground) - but that's even further away in Penzance.

The long term goal of the club, assuming they've got one, has got to be playing at the Stadium for Cornwall.

I agree, but as equal partners.

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9 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I agree, but as equal partners.

true and agree, but my point was, if they can't demonstrate they can be there as unequal tenants, then they really will be toast. As I said back up the thread, the need to sort out access to the S4C (on pretty much any terms) is going to be a pretty rapid test of how serious they are, regardless of whether it's as equal partners or not. Cheque book time. How much do Perez and backers really want a team in Cornwall, or a share of bricks and mortar....?

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2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Don't you have an opinion about whether they should demand equal status?

No, because I have no information on which to base an opinion.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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41 minutes ago, Griff said:

No, because I have no information on which to base an opinion.

No of course not, not yet.

But you can conduct a thought experiment, where you imagine some possible scenarios and their likely outcomes over time.

Then you can choose which you prefer.

This is part of an iterative process you can (should) engage in, before setting goals for yourself, or (in this case) for the new RL club, or rugby league in general. 

Playing these mind games, prior to an important decision, may help you avoid blindly and randomly accepting ''terms'' of your future relationships which could lead to unhappy/unfair/inequitable outcomes.

In other words to avoid falling into a trap.

Even better, it might help you get the very best possible outcome! 

I'm just inviting you into such a thought experiment and to choose which outcome you would prefer.  

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