Sat 21st-Sun 22nd May: The Betfred Championship (Non TV) Match Thread

[gingerjon]

36 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

What are you suggesting then? What would you do to change things?

Equalise the central distribution as per the rest of the professional game?

[Keep The Faith]

12 hours ago, meast said:

I mean that the spending power of Fev and Leigh in order to achieve SL status has created a 2 horse competition.

Surely there should be healthy competition?

It's like when Huddersfield went the 2002 competition unbeaten, it was a totally lopsided, uncompetitive league, what should be a great competition with teams all competing to get into SL, instead it's become a case of who can spend more and not lose a game.

But the rest of the league beat each other batley should of made the grand final that after 15 wins in 18 games up to the semi final - injuries in that semi final and Leigh signing Bobbie Goulding 6 weeks before the end of the year 

[The Phantom Horseman]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Equalise the central distribution as per the rest of the professional game?

Other than Leigh's parachute payment, I think the central distributuion for Championship clubs has been not only massively reduced from a few years ago, but also the huge disparities between the clubs have been massively reduced. Think I read somewhere that Leigh got 450k parachute payment, but that funding for the remainder starts at around 180k - in other words most of Fev's spending, and a lot of Leigh's, is self-funded.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Other than Leigh's parachute payment, I think the central distributuion for Championship clubs has been not only massively reduced from a few years ago, but also the huge disparities between the clubs have been massively reduced. Think I read somewhere that Leigh got 450k parachute payment, but that funding for the remainder starts at around 180k - in other words most of Fev's spending, and a lot of Leigh's, is self-funded.

Be good to see the numbers.

And, of course, an explanation as to why the Championship operates to a different model than the other divisions. (Happy to correct if that isn't the case).

[The Phantom Horseman]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Be good to see the numbers.

And, of course, an explanation as to why the Championship operates to a different model than the other divisions. (Happy to correct if that isn't the case).

The numbers never seem to get published but I'm pretty sure the difference in central funding certainly isn't a major reason any more for why some clubs have more spending power than others.

I think there are various criteria related to stuff like social media that has a small impact on central funding. I do know there was a big switch a couple of years ago, the days when some teams were getting hundreds of thousands more than others are gone, barring Leigh's parachute payment.

[snoopdog]

8 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

The numbers never seem to get published but I'm pretty sure the difference in central funding certainly isn't a major reason any more for why some clubs have more spending power than others.

I think there are various criteria related to stuff like social media that has a small impact on central funding. I do know there was a big switch a couple of years ago, the days when some teams were getting hundreds of thousands more than others are gone, barring Leigh's parachute payment.

I believe the two promoted teams got £25k , a long long way of £400k parachute payments , and to far from £180k to compete!!

[The Phantom Horseman]

4 minutes ago, snoopdog said:

I believe the two promoted teams got £25k , a long long way of £400k parachute payments , and to far from £180k to compete!!

If that's correct, I agree, it's very unfair on the promoted teams. However, the issue being discussed is what to do about 2 clubs being much stronger than the others. Given Leigh and Fev are reputed (and this is only hearsay) to have spent £1m or more, the central funding really isn't a major factor for this particular issue. If Fev and Leigh had received £0 central funding we would still be having the same conversation.

[The Blues Ox]

SL clubs getting worried that both contenders might actually shake things up in the SL ladder? Should see a voted ban on promotion in 5....4....3...

[Harry Stottle]

52 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Equalise the central distribution as per the rest of the professional game?

Would that make clubs stronger and more competitive Ginger, would it suddenly create more player's to strengthen the teams?

The distribution is equal in SL but the disparity in performance remains the same it is the wealth of the clubs backers and what they are prepared to put in that makes all the difference, hence Bradford falling from it's lofty position having no one to bail them out, Fev presently has Campbell and is managed correctly and Leigh has Beaumont. Wakefield has no money man I would suggest very strongly if they got relegated and there was no parachute payment they would most likely fold or become an also ran in the Championship.

Actually it wasn't funding in the Championship it was prize money awarded for a clubs finishing position the higher up the more they got, Leigh very nearly went out of buisness 10 years ago but in stepped the knight in shining armour and he financed a better squad, no Beaumont no Leigh challenging as they are today.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Would that make clubs stronger and more competitive Ginger, would it suddenly create more player's to strengthen the teams?

The distribution is equal in SL but the disparity in performance remains the same it is the wealth of the clubs backers and what they are prepared to put in that makes all the difference, hence Bradford falling from it's lofty position having no one to bail them out, Fev presently has Campbell and is managed correctly and Leigh has Beaumont. Wakefield has no money man I would suggest very strongly if they got relegated and there was no parachute payment they would most likely fold or become an also ran in the Championship.

Actually it wasn't funding in the Championship it was prize money awarded for a clubs finishing position the higher up the more they got, Leigh very nearly went out of buisness 10 years ago but in stepped the knight in shining armour and he financed a better squad, no Beaumont no Leigh challenging as they are today.

The only surprise was how long it took you to type.

[gingerjon]

22 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

SL clubs getting worried that both contenders might actually shake things up in the SL ladder? Should see a voted ban on promotion in 5....4....3...

Can you bottle paranoia?

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The only surprise was how long it took you to type.

?

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

?

Best ignored Harry 

[meast]

15 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Did you complain at the time back in 2002 ? 

Yes, I like the competition and uncertainty of things.

I was pleased we won promotion and the cup obviously but the season itself seemed like a season of friendlies, I like competition and uncertainty.

[meast]

15 hours ago, Fevrover said:

SL is going to be won by one ot two teams how's that any different, possibly 3.

Possibly yes, but that's because the best teams usually do win things, the best teams are the ones who have worked the hardest and developed players, culture and a mentality over years, not because they can simply buy the best players available.

[meast]

3 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

What are you suggesting then? What would you do to change things?

I'm not sure how things can be changed really, ideally as someone said earlier, you'd want all the championship clubs to be able to compete financially and on the field, but not every championship club has a wealthy backer ensuring that the other clubs can't compete.

I'm not saying Fev and Leigh are doing anything wrong, they're simply pursuing their dream of probably having one season in SL, or another season in Leigh's case, but it means that no other team can get 1 season in SL.

Hopefully IMG/RFL will look at making things more competitive across the board.

[Fevrover]

3 minutes ago, meast said:

Possibly yes, but that's because the best teams usually do win things, the best teams are the ones who have worked the hardest and developed players, culture and a mentality over years, not because they can simply buy the best players available.

Yeah SL teams don't have many Aussie or Kiwi players lol.

[meast]

3 hours ago, Fevrover said:

Super League  Grand Final winners FOUR teams only since its inception in 1996, what's the point of SL then ?

There aren't 2 teams who are whacking everyone else because they can afford to in SL is there?

[Fevrover]

Wigan used to, St Helens have won it last 3 years and look like doing it again. 

[meast]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

SL clubs getting worried that both contenders might actually shake things up in the SL ladder? Should see a voted ban on promotion in 5....4....3...

As a fan of a SL club, I'd love for a club from the championship to come up and stick around, I'm all for promotion, I just feel it's now only restricted to 2 clubs due to their ability to outspend everyone else.

[meast]

Anyway, best of luck to all the clubs and whoever gets to join the top table next year, I've got no axe to grind with any club by the way.

[roversspud]

1 minute ago, meast said:

As a fan of a SL club, I'd love for a club from the championship to come up and stick around, I'm all for promotion, I just feel it's now only restricted to 2 clubs due to their ability to outspend everyone else.

But that's not the fault of the two clubs concerned. It's up to the others to climb up to their level, not for the two clubs to lower their spending. Some clubs have more ambitions than others, it was ever thus.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, meast said:

I'm not sure how things can be changed really, ideally as someone said earlier, you'd want all the championship clubs to be able to compete financially and on the field, but not every championship club has a wealthy backer ensuring that the other clubs can't compete.

I'm not saying Fev and Leigh are doing anything wrong, they're simply pursuing their dream of probably having one season in SL, or another season in Leigh's case, but it means that no other team can get 1 season in SL.

Hopefully IMG/RFL will look at making things more competitive across the board.

Hull KR were the last team to go up and stay up - open to debate though if they would have stayed up in the Covid season - but one advantage they will have over both Leigh and Fev is the fact that they have an academy, any team that gains promotion should be allowed to run an academy as a matter of course.

[meast]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hull KR were the last team to go up and stay up - open to debate though if they would have stayed up in the Covid season - but one advantage they will have over both Leigh and Fev is the fact that they have an academy, any team that gains promotion should be allowed to run an academy as a matter of course.

I totally agree with that, running an academy should be an absolute must for any SL side, regardless.

[crashmon]

In a way if you consider Super League == Football Premier League, the RL Championship is sort of equal to Football Championship to L2 in scope, so where

• Leigh \ Fev would be like Fulham \ Hudds in football,
• Bradford \ Fax \ York \ Batley would be like Sunderland \ Derby \ Bristol City \ Bolton
• Newcastle \ Sheffield \ Widnes \ Barrow would be like Burton \ Shrewsbury \ Sheff Wed \ Doncaster
• London \ Haven \ Dewsbury \ Workington would be like Barrow \ Carlise \ Oldham \ Bradford City

So if you had say Hudds v Carlise in a football game, I'd expect Hudds to win 3 or 4 to 0. 

We really have 3 or 4 mini divisions in the Championship right now, and there is a clear gulf between top 2 and rest and botttom 4 and rest, with the middle 8 moving around.

What would shake all this up would be if one of the other bottom SL teams came down instead of Tolouse (I really want Tolouse to survive hopefully this season).

If would be amazing if Leeds came down, although in that scenario something would be done to prevent it I am sure.

I am fully expecting my team (London) to get relegated, if as I expect Dewsbury manage to beat Barrow today