Where has the Fun gone?

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

bUt It WaS jUsT bEcAuSe ThEy WeRe WiNnINg!

The flaw in the thinking is that it really shouldn't be either/or. 

Clubs should be trying to put a strong team out and win games because its a sporting competition. But they should also be making all the other parts really enjoyable too. 

[GUBRATS]

22 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, see Huddersfield.

What have they won ?

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Bradford was a combination , the whole ' package ' individually it wouldn't have worked , which showed once one part disappeared the other wasn't sustainable on its own , for it to continue required success on and off the field , which we all know doesn't happen 

Did the Bulls continue Bullmania when the sht hit the fan? 

My recollection is that they didnt, certainly not to the levels of early SL, that ship had sailed somewhat. 

But if they did, maybe it would explain why they averaged 8k, 12.8k, 11.1k, 8.6k and finally 6.2k before leaving. 

All still far higher than that 1981 average. 

So even with a losing team, the Bulls delivered good crowds. 

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The flaw in the thinking is that it really shouldn't be either/or. 

Clubs should be trying to put a strong team out and win games because its a sporting competition. But they should also be making all the other parts really enjoyable too. 

Correct , but one feeds off the other , all the Bullmania stuff would have looked and felt stupid if they were in the bottom half of the table 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What have they won ?

They were absolutely dominant and won the LLS in 2013

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Did the Bulls continue Bullmania when the sht hit the fan? 

My recollection is that they didnt, certainly not to the levels of early SL, that ship had sailed somewhat. 

But if they did, maybe it would explain why they averaged 8k, 12.8k, 11.1k, 8.6k and finally 6.2k before leaving. 

All still far higher than that 1981 average. 

So even with a losing team, the Bulls delivered good crowds. 

Which is, in itself, the long term return of that initial investment

[Dave T]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Correct , but one feeds off the other , all the Bullmania stuff would have looked and felt stupid if they were in the bottom half of the table 

The Bullmania stuff is probably a bit of a red herring here, it was of its time and was a bit of an OTT garish extreme example of sporting entertainment. 

Let's take my team Wire as an example - we are losing plenty at the moment, but that shouldn't mean that the afternoon/evening at the match should be less enjoyable. 

I should still be able to get nice food and drink, my daughter should still be entertained, she should still be able to get her photo with Wolfie - we can be depressed once we kick off. 

This thread wasn't about advocating a return to Bullmania - it was of its time and I don't think it's a case study of how you would do things. 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

They were absolutely dominant and won the LLS in 2013

Impressive , in how many years since they last won one of the big 2 trophies ?

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Which is, in itself, the long term return of that initial investment

Which sent them bust 

[Dave T]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Which sent them bust 

You genuinely think that hiring Spandau Ballet sent them bust? 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Which sent them bust 

You cannot be serious

[Damien]

Bradford never got big crowds until the Bullmania boom, not since my first game as a kid anyway. I think it's churlish to just say this was simply down to success, especially when facts say otherwise. 

In many ways it was just the perfect storm, the switch to summer rugby helped but they had the foresight to capitalise on that in a way that no one else did. For all its faults Odsal helped in that. Then down the line they signed some fantastic players to top it all off.

Money never really seemed an issue until much later down the line so I don't really buy that those crowds were costing them when they were averaging less than 5k before that. It seemed more like trying to chase success again and the Iestyn Harris saga that led to their downfall.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

The Bullmania stuff is probably a bit of a red herring here, it was of its time and was a bit of an OTT garish extreme example of sporting entertainment. 

Let's take my team Wire as an example - we are losing plenty at the moment, but that shouldn't mean that the afternoon/evening at the match should be less enjoyable. 

I should still be able to get nice food and drink, my daughter should still be entertained, she should still be able to get her photo with Wolfie - we can be depressed once we kick off. 

This thread wasn't about advocating a return to Bullmania - it was of its time and I don't think it's a case study of how you would do things. 

You are correct Dave , but you OP was about a low key England game against a made up team , as I put , no real emotional connection for your daughter , and as you put it , ' one for the purist ' 

As regards the food and beer ? , Well complain to the HJ 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You cannot be serious

Feel free to contribute to the discussion 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

You are correct Dave , but you OP was about a low key England game against a made up team , as I put , no real emotional connection for your daughter , and as you put it , ' one for the purist ' 

As regards the food and beer ? , Well complain to the HJ 

But this is exactly the discussion, games like this will always just be for the purist and when we all die off the grounds are empty as we didn't captivate the kids that were in the ground, leaving in droves just after half time. 

England play Greece this year in a 30k+ stadium. That's a tough sell, we can't just accept that these games are for the purists. 

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

The Bullmania stuff is probably a bit of a red herring here, it was of its time and was a bit of an OTT garish extreme example of sporting entertainment. 

Let's take my team Wire as an example - we are losing plenty at the moment, but that shouldn't mean that the afternoon/evening at the match should be less enjoyable. 

I should still be able to get nice food and drink, my daughter should still be entertained, she should still be able to get her photo with Wolfie - we can be depressed once we kick off. 

This thread wasn't about advocating a return to Bullmania - it was of its time and I don't think it's a case study of how you would do things. 

Very much this. 

Street food type vendors and craft alcohol (this isn’t a must, just one example) combined with other elements of making an evening/afternoon out more palatable isn’t “Bullmania” and that period of time at the Bulls shouldn’t be the barometer for fun some 26 years later.  

There’s almost nothing to make me get inside any Super League ground early or to be within its immediate vicinity any more than about ten minutes before kick-off just to give me enough time to get in, get a pint and get to my seat without missing the game. That’s the problem. More games of rugby league isn’t the answer either, as we’ve seen with the events we do have that aren’t better attended. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Bradford never got big crowds until the Bullmania boom, not since my first game as a kid anyway. I think it's churlish to just say this was simply down to success, especially when facts say otherwise. 

In many ways it was just the perfect storm, the switch to summer rugby helped but they had the foresight to capitalise on that in a way that no one else did. For all its faults Odsal helped in that. Then down the line they signed some fantastic players to top it all off.

Money never really seemed an issue until much later down the line so I don't really buy that those crowds were costing them when they were averaging less than 5k before that. It seemed more like trying to chase success again and the Iestyn Harris saga that led to their downfall.

Nobody is saying it was ' just ' down to success , but the Bullmania stuff would have looked daft if they'd had a negative points difference 

Its a combination , no silver bullet ,the Premier League gets its ' tourist ' fans from all over the world due to International appeal as the biggest , richest League in the Worlds biggest Sport , I don't expect us to see that any time soon 

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Feel free to contribute to the discussion 

Feel free to make non ridiculous points

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Very much this. 

Street food type vendors and craft alcohol (this isn’t a must, just one example) combined with other elements of making an evening/afternoon out more palatable isn’t “Bullmania” and that period of time at the Bulls shouldn’t be the barometer for fun some 26 years later.  

There’s almost nothing to make me get inside any Super League ground early or to be within its immediate vicinity any more than about ten minutes before kick-off just to give me enough time to get in, get a pint and get to my seat without missing the game. That’s the problem. More games of rugby league isn’t the answer either, as we’ve seen with the events we do have that aren’t better attended. 

Spot on. I was early the other day, there was nothing for me to do. I sat in tesco cafe for a coffee. Quality coffee costs a bomb now, I'm stunned they don't do it in grounds. 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But this is exactly the discussion, games like this will always just be for the purist and when we all die off the grounds are empty as we didn't captivate the kids that were in the ground, leaving in droves just after half time. 

England play Greece this year in a 30k+ stadium. That's a tough sell, we can't just accept that these games are for the purists. 

Those kids might end up as the next generation of ' purists ' , I watched Leyth as a kid because I got free tickets ( my dad didn't , hasn't and never will have any interest in RL , preferring Union ) , I then watched Leyth in the late 70s , early 80 s because it was the only place I could get a beer on Sundays after 2 pm , I then didn't start watching them again apart from the odd game until 1999 when Basil rode into town and we could see promotion on the horizon , so in my 61 years I've watched Leigh for about just under half of that 

There is no silver bullet , but people change , as long as they're aware of the sport , then one day they might just become interested , what's the saying about leading a horse to water ?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Those kids might end up as the next generation of ' purists ' , I watched Leyth as a kid because I got free tickets ( my dad didn't , hasn't and never will have any interest in RL , preferring Union ) , I then watched Leyth in the late 70s , early 80 s because it was the only place I could get a beer on Sundays after 2 pm , I then didn't start watching them again apart from the odd game until 1999 when Basil rode into town and we could see promotion on the horizon , so in my 61 years I've watched Leigh for about just under half of that 

There is no silver bullet , but people change , as long as they're aware of the sport , then one day they might just become interested , what's the saying about leading a horse to water ?

They aren't ending up that way. They're doing other things.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Spot on. I was early the other day, there was nothing for me to do. I sat in tesco cafe for a coffee. Quality coffee costs a bomb now, I'm stunned they don't do it in grounds. 

There's a huge markup too on things like that. It could be real profitable. Loads of people don't drink alcohol at games but the coffee is usually like tepid dishwater.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Damien

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Those kids might end up as the next generation of ' purists ' , I watched Leyth as a kid because I got free tickets ( my dad didn't , hasn't and never will have any interest in RL , preferring Union ) , I then watched Leyth in the late 70s , early 80 s because it was the only place I could get a beer on Sundays after 2 pm , I then didn't start watching them again apart from the odd game until 1999 when Basil rode into town and we could see promotion on the horizon , so in my 61 years I've watched Leigh for about just under half of that 

There is no silver bullet , but people change , as long as they're aware of the sport , then one day they might just become interested , what's the saying about leading a horse to water ?

But this post just reads as do little, carry on as we are and what will be will be. 

I know yiu don't think that, so why poatbthat? 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

There's a huge markup too and things like that. It could be real profitable. Loads of people don't drink alcohol at games but the coffee is usually like tepid dishwater.

Coffee and a cake/muffin would have set me back £8 or £9 and I'd happily have spent that and sat in the ground instead of a supermarket. 

[GUBRATS]

13 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Very much this. 

Street food type vendors and craft alcohol (this isn’t a must, just one example) combined with other elements of making an evening/afternoon out more palatable isn’t “Bullmania” and that period of time at the Bulls shouldn’t be the barometer for fun some 26 years later.  

There’s almost nothing to make me get inside any Super League ground early or to be within its immediate vicinity any more than about ten minutes before kick-off just to give me enough time to get in, get a pint and get to my seat without missing the game. That’s the problem. More games of rugby league isn’t the answer either, as we’ve seen with the events we do have that aren’t better attended. 

Many modern stadia have contracts for food and drink that prohibit ' street ' food , craft beer ( it's what I drink ) isn't popular enough to get behind the bar , it's really not that easy