Where has the Fun gone?

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I disagree. Plenty of people watch the NRL and see a 2nd rate and less attractive competition in comparison here. The NRL are absolutely a competitor. There are enough people on social media that say they watch more of the NRL than SL to show that. People aren't mugs.

More star players and clubs being allowed to spend more to attract the best players absolutely attracts kids and fans. The salary cap declining by £1 million in real terms has absolutely had an effect on standards and people's views towards the game in this country. I'm not sure what is wrong with wanting SL to be better and not just meekly accepting its lot.

As I've said this is an issue across the board. The game really has to do everything much better than it has for quite some time. We absolutely have to do all the event stuff but similarly there is only so much you can polish a ###### too. Everything needs to improve.

This thread is about events being fun, it is about people attending the matches. Nobody is heading to Brisbane this Friday instead of Warrington. The NRL is not a competitor for bums on seats. The viewing figures for the NRL in the UK are modest. 

We agree that we should be improving everything, but happy to disagree around the importance of the playing standards as a lever here. 

[The Rocket]

Just now, Dave T said:

Did I see something about bringing back paper tickets?

What does an AFL event look like over there? 

The afl get big crowds, averaging over thirty thousand and they seem to whip themselves into a frenzy `oohing and aahing ` at every little ( often quite comical ) thing, but when you`ve got thirty thousand people doing it it makes for an incredible atmosphere. 

My daughter got a free ticket to a Swans afl game, along with about thirty other people in her dorm, she told me the atmosphere was amazing even if the game was rather ridiculous, and that was without prompting from me. You could see how people would go back for that. She hasn`t, she`s not allowed to.

But back to the original point, it was during the lockdown and crowdless games that it became obvious that afl is a completely different matter without crowds and I think afl hierarchy know that. It would only be a matter of time before that fed into tv ratings numbers.

I think that League doesn`t rely any where near the same on large crowds to provide a good game day or television experience but of course having said that being part of a loud and involved crowd can only be a bonus to any sport.

BTW, I was thinking of the paper tickets initiative when I made my previous post and I`d be very surprised if that has anything but a very transitory effect on crowd numbers. I`ve been holding my fire on the current  afl crowd numbers panic because I`m old enough ( dinosaur old in fact apparently - thank you ) to know it is early days, but I am hopeful.

 

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I go to as my wife describes it "The Rugby Match", we also together go to live theatre productions, funnily enough I have never once heard anyone say prior, at the interval or after the show saying it would have been a much better expierence if we had a sporting inclusion added to the occasion to make it "more of an event", I can only conclude from that people who attend live theatre/concerts go for what is on offer as the central attraction and are happy with what's served up on the stage, on the other hand "Going to the match" doesn't quite resonate with those who want more than what's on the field of play, why is that? On big occasion games I have attended I have enjoyed some of the artists (proper singists) and the spectator/community join in, but whoever is the side attraction hasn't persuaded me or otherwise from attending.

 

Your post could be written by the old blokes attending a County Cricket game on a Thursday resisting change years back. 

As per my opening post - if all you are interested in is the Rugby, you are catered for, that's great. 

People expect more. 

[Phil W]

Did anyone see BT's coverage of the Premiership rugby final yesterday? They started the show from a stage in the car park with Craig Doyle, Ugo Monye and Lawrence Dallaglio the fan zone was part of the live broadcast, I thought that was really good.

Then they moved into the stadium to build to the match. We have a summer sport and should be using that it's not just the match it's the whole event especially this time of year the weather's good fan zones could be a part of most games. 

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

This thread is about events being fun, it is about people attending the matches. Nobody is heading to Brisbane this Friday instead of Warrington. The NRL is not a competitor for bums on seats. The viewing figures for the NRL in the UK are modest. 

We agree that we should be improving everything, but happy to disagree around the importance of the playing standards as a lever here. 

Well said Dave.

It's quite clear that a few posters feel the need to compare and find wanting but it's never been a healthy or helpful pastime, however perfect for t'internet.

3 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I think that League doesn`t rely any where near the same on large crowds to provide a good game day or television experience

Really good point TR and League really proved it's televisual and marketable side during this time.

 

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This thread is about events being fun, it is about people attending the matches. Nobody is heading to Brisbane this Friday instead of Warrington. The NRL is not a competitor for bums on seats. The viewing figures for the NRL in the UK are modest. 

We agree that we should be improving everything, but happy to disagree around the importance of the playing standards as a lever here. 

Those that watch the NRL on TV and use that as an excuse to not attend ' live ' over here aren't going to go to any match , they are lazy TV supporters only 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This thread is about events being fun, it is about people attending the matches. Nobody is heading to Brisbane this Friday instead of Warrington. The NRL is not a competitor for bums on seats. The viewing figures for the NRL in the UK are modest. 

We agree that we should be improving everything, but happy to disagree around the importance of the playing standards as a lever here. 

To be fair I did reply to your post saying the game was great and the basic premise that everything on the field is fine and isn't an issue. I personally think that is a dangerous view and head in the sand stuff. I'm happy to leave it at that though too because as I said it just becomes a repetition of other threads.

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Your post could be written by the old blokes attending a County Cricket game on a Thursday resisting change years back. 

As per my opening post - if all you are interested in is the Rugby, you are catered for, that's great. 

People expect more. 

PEOPLE WHO EXPECT MORE ARE NOT REAL FANS AND WE SHOULD DO NOTHING TO APPEASE THEM.

Some of them probably don't even know what the date 1895 means.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Those that watch the NRL on TV and use that as an excuse to not attend ' live ' over here aren't going to go to any match , they are lazy TV supporters only 

I don't think these people exist - certainly not in any kind of meaningful numbers. 

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

To be fair I did reply to your post saying the game was great and the basic premise that everything on the field is fine and isn't an issue. I personally think that is a dangerous view and head in the sand stuff. I'm happy to leave it at that though too because as I said it just becomes a repetition of other threads.

One final point. You said earlier about not being able to polish a t. Urd. 

May I introduce you to Rugby Union

It's partly a serious point! 

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

One final point. You said earlier about not being able to polish a t. Urd. 

A tur.d of what? Asking for a union loving friend in Dublin

[Chris22]

The point has been made earlier, but aside from the Magic Weekend, I cannot think of a double header (or more) that has ever worked. I think we should be moving away from women's matches being warm up events and should now be seen, in their own right.

Some occasions lend themselves to an 'event' feel and others don't. Last night's match feels aimed at the wrong audience to me. With a clued-up RL crowd like in Warrington, the crowd knows that the 'All Stars' lacks authenticity. A crowd in Leigh would know a test match against France will be a walkover.

'England' is a brand that anyone in the country can get behind, it would appeal to an 'event-going' crowd in a way that a domestic match can never. England must play more outside of the heartlands in my view. This year especially in a World Cup year, to build awareness. Last night felt like a missed opportunity.

With a 10,000 crowd in Warrington, I honestly think we could beat that in London, Coventry, Bristol, Newcastle, maybe even Sheffield. And then you could have had 'meet and greet' sessions with England players (non-playing or recently retired), photo opportunities with the World Cup, chances to buy or win tickets for the tournament.

Even the trophy lift was before an empty stadium. I don't think it would have been with a more novice crowd. We need to be bolder and less-safe when it comes to England and that in turn means you can put on more event-style or fun activities and see a greater return on those.

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

One final point. You said earlier about not being able to polish a t. Urd. 

May I introduce you to Rugby Union

It's partly a serious point! 

I did think that when I typed it

I think certainly at international level many of the same reasons apply as do at at football, big crowds guaranteed and a good atmosphere. Plus an additional one, the place to be seen which is kind of similar in football with some people too.

I've commented before on CC finals but people are a lot more interested in events when a big crowd and atmosphere is guaranteed and it becomes must see. That's all a catch 22 though.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

I did think that when I typed it

I think certainly at international level many of the same reasons apply as do at at football, big crowds guaranteed and a good atmosphere. Plus an additional one, the place to be seen which is kind of similar in football with some people too.

I've commented before on CC finals but people are a lot more interested in events when a big crowd and atmosphere is guaranteed and it becomes must see. That's all a catch 22 though.

Yes, it is a cycle, one that we need to break. 

[RigbyLuger]

29 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

The point has been made earlier, but aside from the Magic Weekend, I cannot think of a double header (or more) that has ever worked. I think we should be moving away from women's matches being warm up events and should now be seen, in their own right.

Some occasions lend themselves to an 'event' feel and others don't. Last night's match feels aimed at the wrong audience to me. With a clued-up RL crowd like in Warrington, the crowd knows that the 'All Stars' lacks authenticity. A crowd in Leigh would know a test match against France will be a walkover.

Yep, heard a similar argument on a podcast. Warrington isn't a destination any RL is begging to go to, especially when we're wary of the match to some point. This is ideal to go to Newcastle Thunder's ground or whatever.

 

(Who knew there'd be a trophy lift anyway!)

Edited June 19, 2022 by RigbyLuger

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

The point has been made earlier, but aside from the Magic Weekend, I cannot think of a double header (or more) that has ever worked. I think we should be moving away from women's matches being warm up events and should now be seen, in their own right.

Some occasions lend themselves to an 'event' feel and others don't. Last night's match feels aimed at the wrong audience to me. With a clued-up RL crowd like in Warrington, the crowd knows that the 'All Stars' lacks authenticity. A crowd in Leigh would know a test match against France will be a walkover.

'England' is a brand that anyone in the country can get behind, it would appeal to an 'event-going' crowd in a way that a domestic match can never. England must play more outside of the heartlands in my view. This year especially in a World Cup year, to build awareness. Last night felt like a missed opportunity.

With a 10,000 crowd in Warrington, I honestly think we could beat that in London, Coventry, Bristol, Newcastle, maybe even Sheffield. And then you could have had 'meet and greet' sessions with England players (non-playing or recently retired), photo opportunities with the World Cup, chances to buy or win tickets for the tournament.

Even the trophy lift was before an empty stadium. I don't think it would have been with a more novice crowd. We need to be bolder and less-safe when it comes to England and that in turn means you can put on more event-style or fun activities and see a greater return on those.

I agree, 10k should be pretty achievable on newer areas, but I suspect this is purely based on costs. And I mean not only hiring the ground, but travel for RFL employees and sponsors etc. Its quite depressing seeing England games staged like this on the cheap. 

The double header thing is a good point. I've only just realised when I've gone into the RLWC site that every single women's game in the world cup is a double header. In November FFS. 

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

But in Football a team can still score a couple of headers from corners and still win the game or score a great free kick. There are still possible shocks. Even in RU a strong scrum or line out can be a leveller for weaker teams. What makes RL great, its relentless and its intensity, also means the stronger side almost always wins. There are no real levellers.

Thats probably true. As discussed on this forum before it would suggest to me that the game needs more opportunity to contest for the ball. The rules over the decades have now made the game generally a procession until a mistake is made or hand-over.

Looking at old games from yesteryear even at PTB their was competition for the ball.

[Scubby]

44 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Yep, heard a similar argument on a podcast. Warrington isn't a destination any RL is begging to go to, especially when we're wary of the match to some point. This is ideal to go to Newcastle Thunder's ground or whatever.

 

(Who knew there'd be a trophy lift anyway!)

Yes, bizarrely we continually forget to think about places people would actually like to go to before and after the game.

[RigbyLuger]

Just now, Scubby said:

Yes, bizarrely we continually forget to think about places people would actually like to go to before and after the game.

No knock on Warrington intended of course! Same said for Leigh, Doncaster etc, our usual international venues.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, RigbyLuger said:

No knock on Warrington intended of course! Same said for Leigh, Doncaster etc, our usual international venues.

Yep. England v France women standalone in York this weekend - with good priced tickets and offers to regional junior clubs and schools - would probably have got more than they managed for both games in Warrington yesterday. It would also pay full respect to the women's game as an official test match.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes, bizarrely we continually forget to think about places people would actually like to go to before and after the game.

 

1 minute ago, RigbyLuger said:

No knock on Warrington intended of course! Same said for Leigh, Doncaster etc, our usual international venues.

I don't disagree with the point you are making here, but sometimes we should just be able to sell an RL game without it being at a tourist destination. We really should be slick enough to sell 15k tickets for an England game in an RL town surrounded by a handful of other RL towns. 

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep. England v France women standalone in York this weekend - with good priced tickets and offers to regional junior clubs and schools - would probably have got more than they managed for both games in Warrington yesterday. It would also pay full respect to the women's game as an official test match.

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

I don't disagree with the point you are making here, but sometimes we should just be able to sell an RL game without it being at a tourist destination. We really should be slick enough to sell 15k tickets for an England game in an RL town surrounded by a handful of other RL towns. 

Women's RL taps into new audiences and needs to be treated with respect and different strategies Playing them in places people would like to make a day of it (but still within access of many clubs) probably helps in many ways. Fun right?

Edited June 19, 2022 by Scubby
typo

[Oxford]

26 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Thats probably true. As discussed on this forum before it would suggest to me that the game needs more opportunity to contest for the ball. The rules over the decades have now made the game generally a procession until a mistake is made or hand-over.

Looking at old games from yesteryear even at PTB their was competition for the ball.

While I understand your point here, it is just one aspect and I think that's where and why we haven't progressed.

Contesting makes RL look more like another sport, and identifiability is an important part of marketing that has only been cursorily addressed and quickly abandoned.

Looking at old games it was just different rules that were ignored, used for cynical purposes, and as essentially cheating.

 

[daz39]

Although i'd love to see it become i but why does a Rugby League match need to be an 'event'?

Surely RL events as such need to be but why would a regular league match have to be? people have always and will probably always go to watch the match, there are thousands of people who are happy to turn up once a fortnight, watch their team then go home, they will do this 13/14 times a year.

I don't get the obsession or fixation with wanting or needing EVERY game of Rugby League to be a big social event, obviously i'd be happy if they were more to game days but surely the big games and the showpieces should be the Events and not the run of the mill league ones?

[Chris22]

36 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The double header thing is a good point. I've only just realised when I've gone into the RLWC site that every single women's game in the world cup is a double header. In November FFS. 

I would quite like to see the women's World Cup Final. But there's no way I'll be sitting for 5+ hours at Old Trafford in November.

I'd suggest you could get more people watching in person as its own event. But like you say, cost is an issue.