IMG - Thought's, suggestions and comments to move the game forward

[gingerjon]

54 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Internationals have been on the BBC for the last 12 years or so. 

With a couple of exceptions, I think we've always had at least highlights on the BBC.

[GUBRATS]

58 minutes ago, Dave T said:

RL was never ever fully behind a pay wall. 

The Challenge Cup has always remained on the BBC and return the highest viewing figures for British RL every year. 

SL highlights have been on the BBC for years now,  including national highlights of the playoffs and Grand Final. 

Internationals have been on the BBC for the last 12 years or so. 

Our FTA coverage has been decent. 

Correct , it's not the BBC's fault we don't play enough of them 

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

With a couple of exceptions, I think we've always had at least highlights on the BBC.

Yes,  that's correct. We are one of the sports who have maintained a terrestrial presence literally every year without fail. 

[Liverpool Rover]

2 hours ago, Gordon Street said:

it's part of the solution if your sport has the wealth, the demographic spread, and the geographical spread to support it. Soccer's promotion is conditional; it's just that the clubs have the wherewithal to achieve the conditions. Promotion to rugby union's premiership is conditional; just ask Ealing Trailfinders. Cricket's answer is to have so many different versions of the game that something, somewhere is going to suit somebody; and still the sport struggles. Rugby League has its own individual issues from outside; we know what they are and people like to blame them; and within; narrow self interest, small mindedness, a strong and vociferous reactionary culture, a lack of wealth, a narrow demography and a small geographical spread. Trying to address them is like trying to roll a boulder up a hill. 

People point to Football having p&r, ignoring that they have a massive nationwide pyramid where there are plenty of clubs below the Premier League who could establish themselves in the PL and large domestic, European & world player markets to get players from. RL has none of that.

[Dave T]

41 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

People point to Football having p&r, ignoring that they have a massive nationwide pyramid where there are plenty of clubs below the Premier League who could establish themselves in the PL and large domestic, European & world player markets to get players from. RL has none of that.

Maybe not,  but RL does have a number of clubs who could replace some of the top 12 and not weaken the league.

Fore,  it was the flaw with licensing,  the cutoff was at a low level,  there was no gap between the low SL clubs and high Champ clubs. 

The point about the player market is most valid.  The game is so geographically narrow it means quality players are signed in advance of promotion. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Rover said:

People point to Football having p&r, ignoring that they have a massive nationwide pyramid where there are plenty of clubs below the Premier League who could establish themselves in the PL and large domestic, European & world player markets to get players from. RL has none of that.

People also tend to ignore the quite strict conditions there are around promotion. It doesn't just happen. Even internally in a league can be blocked if a ground (or other criteria) isn't up to standard.

[Gordon Street]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Is he not being arrogant in thinking he can just apply OZ or US sporting philosophy to a UK sporting culture , something he is clearly not familiar with 

Some of his idea's are great yes , but require massive amounts of investment over many years ( much like Big Pictures ) , but no suggestion where that investment will come from , you are talking literally hundreds of millions of pounds 

Do you think that is available to RL ?

no, he/she was putting forward an idea. Your crass dismissal of it was arrogant. 

 

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Maybe not,  but RL does have a number of clubs who could replace some of the top 12 and not weaken the league.

Fore,  it was the flaw with licensing,  the cutoff was at a low level,  there was no gap between the low SL clubs and high Champ clubs. 

The point about the player market is most valid.  The game is so geographically narrow it means quality players are signed in advance of promotion. 

Yes  the RL does have a number of clubs who could replace some of the top 12 and not weaken the league.but it wont happen when the RFL via Sky is paying the top 12 approx £1.7 Million more per team

It is rigged

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Yes  the RL does have a number of clubs who could replace some of the top 12 and not weaken the league.but it wont happen when the RFL via Sky is paying the top 12 approx £1.7 Million more per team

It is rigged

You get more money for being in the higher division.  This is absolutely standard everywhere in the world in any comp. 

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Yes  the RL does have a number of clubs who could replace some of the top 12 and not weaken the league.but it wont happen

It's literally happening this year just as it happened last year.

[ATLANTISMAN]

There are currently only 7 teams (And one of those has huge problems) that cut the mustard.

Needs a total re-brand and new comp:)

 

P

[GUBRATS]

53 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

no, he/she was putting forward an idea. Your crass dismissal of it was arrogant. 

 

An idea based on a lack of knowledge of the problems you are dealing with IMO , yes my opinion , as relative as his 

But as I put , I wouldn't dream of telling the Aussies how their sport should be structured , because I don't know enough about how it works , the problems it needs to overcome , and the competition it faces 

Although I do know for years it was built on gambling , as in slot machines , those I have witnessed down under , so maybe that should be our focus , rooms full of gambling machines , it's how the Aussies did it

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Although I do know for years it was built on gambling , as in slot machines , those I have witnessed down under , so maybe that should be our focus , rooms full of gambling machines , it's how the Aussies did it

Yes. What we need to do is develop a world-leading gambling addiction problem that we normalise through sport.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. What we need to do is develop a world-leading gambling addiction problem that we normalise through sport.

I was being facetious , but still factual , that's where they made their money , yes I know it's now different 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. What we need to do is develop a world-leading gambling addiction problem that we normalise through sport.

If you look at the various sponsorship deals ( including our title sponsor ) in sport in the UK we are already there 

Even the radio stations are doing it now , some guy on Rock FM lost £ 103 K last week because he answered the phone and told them the wrong amount , I'll be it was a good atmosphere in his house that night ?

[Liverpool Rover]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Maybe not,  but RL does have a number of clubs who could replace some of the top 12 and not weaken the league.

Fore,  it was the flaw with licensing,  the cutoff was at a low level,  there was no gap between the low SL clubs and high Champ clubs. 

The point about the player market is most valid.  The game is so geographically narrow it means quality players are signed in advance of promotion. 

Which means promoted clubs will then up with one of the weaker teams in the league which leads to the problem of RL being IMO a less forgiving game then football in that aspect. In football teams playing against superior ones can set up to play for draw or to be able to hit on the break where in RL weaker teams are more exposed.

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

If you look at the various sponsorship deals ( including our title sponsor ) in sport in the UK we are already there 

Even the radio stations are doing it now , some guy on Rock FM lost £ 103 K last week because he answered the phone and told them the wrong amount , I'll be it was a good atmosphere in his house that night ?

I think we're well behind Australia.

Our gambling issues are serious and do need addressing but, frankly, they make us look like amateurs.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think we're well behind Australia.

Our gambling issues are serious and do need addressing but, frankly, they make us look like amateurs.

One of the reasons my brother liked NZ so much 

[Gordon Street]

43 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

An idea based on a lack of knowledge of the problems you are dealing with IMO , yes my opinion , as relative as his 

But as I put , I wouldn't dream of telling the Aussies how their sport should be structured , because I don't know enough about how it works , the problems it needs to overcome , and the competition it faces 

Although I do know for years it was built on gambling , as in slot machines , those I have witnessed down under , so maybe that should be our focus , rooms full of gambling machines , it's how the Aussies did it

whatever; my point was the way you addressed Pulga. IMHO it was arrogant; 

   8 hours ago,  GUBRATS said: 

Am I telling you they should have P and R in Australia ? , No 

So don't tell me we shouldn't have it in the UK , simple really 

You haven't a clue 

[Pulga]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

My biggest issue is that it shows zero awareness of where the game is in the UK.

Things like marketing and media personalities are nice but how much do the NRL spend on marketing and media? How much contra advertising does the NRL get? How much does all this coverage comes from a compliant media and wall to wall coverage? In the UK we are lucky to get a column inch in some newspapers and its big news if Tommy Makinson is on Soccer AM.

Ditto with things like all games being televised when SL has been shown to essentially get offered like it or lump it TV deals. Now I'm not saying the game couldn't do better, we all know it can, but the whole compare it to the NRL and Australia argument is a little pointless. It's like comparing Football in Australia and saying why does it not do these things as good as the Premier League.

The good thing about the internet is you can completely do it yourself. You don't have to rely on anyone else.

I think this reply and Dave's are telling. Anything that isn't happening right now is thrown in the "that's and Australian thing" or "someone else is keeping us down" baskets.

It's loser talk really and probably why SL won't be able to dig itself out.

Imagine thinking that televising every game (on whatever medium) isn't worthwhile. The games are literally your product. It's like Coca-Cola not putting bottles on shelves in the UK because "that's and American thing". Unbelievable.

 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The good thing about the internet is you can completely do it yourself. You don't have to rely on anyone else.

I think this reply and Dave's are telling. Anything that isn't happening right now is thrown in the "that's and Australian thing" or "someone else is keeping us down" baskets.

It's loser talk really and probably why SL won't be able to dig itself out.

Imagine thinking that televising every game (on whatever medium) isn't worthwhile. The games are literally your product. It's like Coca-Cola not putting bottles on shelves in the UK because "that's and American thing". Unbelievable.

 

No,  it means that the solutions are far more complex than the basic list you came up with. Jeez,  scrap p and r and do marketing. 

[Pulga]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

No,  it means that the solutions are far more complex than the basic list you came up with. Jeez,  scrap p and r and do marketing. 

The worrying thing is SL is still, in 2022 not marketed well at all. There is no marketing staff.

What hope have they got if they can't do the absolute basics right?

Also the strict standards that I brought up which you've purposefully overlooked. 

SL is identical to bush footy over here. Same exact problems. Same mentality. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Pulga said:

The worrying thing is SL is still, in 2022 not marketed well at all. There is no marketing staff.

What hope have they got if they can't do the absolute basics right?

Also the strict standards that I brought up which you've purposefully overlooked. 

SL is identical to bush footy over here. Same exact problems. Same mentality. 

I acknowledged that some of the points you made are fine.  But that's about it.  They are not game changers.  And Tbh,  I'm not sure there is a silver bullet here,  it probably is a series of smarter decisions,  investment and performance that will lead to positive change. 

But I'm not the one saying its rubbish and then proposing a load of nondescript bullets as the solution. 

I'm on board with many of the things you say,  there was literally nothing thatbisbt discussed here daily,  but even if we do those things it's likely the game looks pretty much the same in 5 years. Maybe with far higher costs from all the marketing and TV production. 

[David Shepherd]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

RL was never ever fully behind a pay wall. 

The Challenge Cup has always remained on the BBC and return the highest viewing figures for British RL every year. 

SL highlights have been on the BBC for years now,  including national highlights of the playoffs and Grand Final. 

Internationals have been on the BBC for the last 12 years or so. 

Our FTA coverage has been decent. 

I know that. I should have been clearer that I was referring to Super League.

I disagree that our FTA coverage has been decent. It’s 7 or 8 games a year. Hardly enough to make household names of our stars. Regular C4 coverage will help.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Hardly enough to make household names of our stars.

Sport isn't mainstream in the way that it was in the 1980s. Most footballers could walk unidentified down most high streets even though they're on £200,000 per week. I couldn't confidently name a single member of any Six Nations RU team right now. Back 'in the day' I had the same level of interest as now (basically, none) but could have named a good few from each team because things like Grandstand existed.

The world has changed.