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Mon 29th Aug: SL: St Helens v Wakefield Trinity KO 15:00


Who will win?  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • St Helens
      5
    • Wakefield Trinity
      7

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  • Poll closed on 29/08/22 at 14:30

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37 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

Did Wakey have any injuries today?

And is young Mr Murphy now the greatest thing since sliced bread/Tom Johnstone?

😉

Murphy has scored 19 try’s in 20 appearances this season in his debut season. That’s actually quite incredible. It actually is superior to a young Tom Johnstones breakthrough season. 
 

Now, Tom Johnstone is my favourite player and while a number of Wakey fans are saying Tom who I think it should be celebrated we have bred 2 top quality wingers. What Murphy does should in no way diminish Johnstones efforts which have been great for trinity. 
 

The main difference I can see is that Murphy has strong defence and positioning. He actually looks on his debut season to have the full package which is extremely rare.

 

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5 hours ago, Josef K said:

Saints smallest crowd of the season with just a pitiful 8,222. Two games in four days are not very appealing. Wakey brought about 150fans and Saints didn’t even bother opening the away end.

With the exception of the slow return of crowds post covid in 2021 and a match in the snow against Salford, think that's our lowest crowd for a Super League match at the new stadium.

Must say, it looked probably more than our matches against Castleford and Hull KR of late where 10,000 + was announced. Maybe my radar is off!

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When I saw the Saints team the result was pretty much inevitable, 4 teenage debutants and another 4 making just their 2nd appearance (the other being against Cas earlier this year), but still it was nice to watch a game without any expectation. A few of those youngsters did themselves proud. Danny Moss carried on from where he left off at the Cas game and gave it his absolute all in the halves. Delaney looks every bit a top class prop in the making and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more regular game time next year, and Rio Corkhill looks to really have something about him at centre, elusive runner.

While you never like watching your team lose, quite enjoyed watching some of those young players yesterday and seeing how they handled the pressure.

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

I thought teams were supposed to field their strongest side available? 

It's a good question. Saints play Toulouse next week so could have had quite a say in relegation had Toulouse been a little bit better and Wakey not managed to drag themselves out of their predicament.

It's obvious at this stage but if a club plays a weaker team earlier on (e.g. around a Cup Final) it still has the same potential effect.

I remember the absolute fury in the 1970s when Leeds United did this before the FA Cup final. In those days the same 12 players (inc. sub) played every game unless they were injured.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

I thought teams were supposed to field their strongest side available? 

That hasn't been a rule for years, it was replaced by the "name your 21 man squad 48Hrs in advance" rule.

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St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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Saints, Wigan or which ever club given they have guaranteed their place in play-off will of course have every right to rest players. I understand why they would.

Never-the-less when we bang on about attracting fans and marketing the sport around our top players it wouldn't be surprising that fans don't turn up given the very young teams put out.

I assume Saints charged a very low entrance for what was almost an academy team.

I do find that with injuries (squeezing in too many games doesn't help), disciplinary bans, and rotation due to need to rest due to over playing that we don't often get a clubs strongest sides playing at this time of year.

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4 hours ago, tim2 said:

It's a good question. Saints play Toulouse next week so could have had quite a say in relegation had Toulouse been a little bit better and Wakey not managed to drag themselves out of their predicament.

It's obvious at this stage but if a club plays a weaker team earlier on (e.g. around a Cup Final) it still has the same potential effect.

Like they did in 2019 when they fielded a youth team against London in August and relegation went to the last game of the season. London may have beaten a full strength Saints, we don’t know, but much less likely. 

Cas benefitted from a young Saints side back in Apr and are now one game away from the playoffs. 

I’m not blaming Saints at all (or any other club that does it, I just remember these games in particular being a Wakey fan!); they’re trying to give themselves the best opportunity amidst fixture congestion. In my opinion, it’s a product of the tight fixture scheduling and considering player welfare (which is a must). 

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32 minutes ago, Curly perm said:

Like they did in 2019 when they fielded a youth team against London in August and relegation went to the last game of the season. London may have beaten a full strength Saints, we don’t know, but much less likely. 

Cas benefitted from a young Saints side back in Apr and are now one game away from the playoffs. 

I’m not blaming Saints at all (or any other club that does it, I just remember these games in particular being a Wakey fan!); they’re trying to give themselves the best opportunity amidst fixture congestion. In my opinion, it’s a product of the tight fixture scheduling and considering player welfare (which is a must). 

I agree, but when the stakes are so high for other teams it places doubts over competition integrity.

Tighter controls over team selection would probably mean fewer games, which in turn has financial implications for all clubs.

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"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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18 hours ago, Chris22 said:

With the exception of the slow return of crowds post covid in 2021 and a match in the snow against Salford, think that's our lowest crowd for a Super League match at the new stadium.

Must say, it looked probably more than our matches against Castleford and Hull KR of late where 10,000 + was announced. Maybe my radar is off!

A mate said the same.

I think the crowd was down from when we met them earlier in the season, but the loop fixtures are a crazy idea. If only the club chairmen would listen to the fans and their thoughts. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Josef K said:

A mate said the same.

I think the crowd was down from when we met them earlier in the season, but the loop fixtures are a crazy idea. If only the club chairmen would listen to the fans and their thoughts. 

 

I dont think its the loop fixtures that much. In fairness to both Saints and Wigan they had to play that high octane game on a Friday evening, while other teams played Thursday and then turn out again on Monday. They also had a couple of suspensions from the Wigan game. Plus it wasnt entirely kids, they had about 6  with plenty of first team experience. Wakey also had many missing too , but that fact seems generally overlooked.

Edited by Agbrigg
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17 hours ago, redjonn said:

Saints, Wigan or which ever club given they have guaranteed their place in play-off will of course have every right to rest players. I understand why they would.

Never-the-less when we bang on about attracting fans and marketing the sport around our top players it wouldn't be surprising that fans don't turn up given the very young teams put out.

I assume Saints charged a very low entrance for what was almost an academy team.

I do find that with injuries (squeezing in too many games doesn't help), disciplinary bans, and rotation due to need to rest due to over playing that we don't often get a clubs strongest sides playing at this time of year.

Woolf (and in fact saints as a club) have been very vocal for several years now with their disapproval of the RFL's decision to play games 3 days apart and have always said if they're forced to do that then they'll likely play weakened teams in the 2nd game.

This year with the disciplinary in 'ban players overdrive' its put even more strain on squads and their ability to play their strongest team week after week. If they were that concerned with giving players more prep time for the WC they should have started the season earlier and/or cut one of the loop fixtures or canned the Magic weekend.

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Woolf (and in fact saints as a club) have been very vocal for several years now with their disapproval of the RFL's decision to play games 3 days apart and have always said if they're forced to do that then they'll likely play weakened teams in the 2nd game.

This year with the disciplinary in 'ban players overdrive' its put even more strain on squads and their ability to play their strongest team week after week. If they were that concerned with giving players more prep time for the WC they should have started the season earlier and/or cut one of the loop fixtures or canned the Magic weekend.

Yep, hard to disagree.

On the disciplinary, it seems to me that the game in which the offence occurred and hence the opposition doesn't always get the "benefit" of "foul" play. Its the following opposition that benefit more, all-be-it the club with the banned players for sure are hindered.

If ref's took the harsher decisions of sending players off rather than sinbinning then that may be more appropriate. Plus I do think soccer have it right with the yellow card - one card warning and then the second your off.  In addition I would look at totting up the yellow cards (as if in a tournament) and if a certain number the player has to miss a game.   That is assuming that players don't intentionally mean to do high or very late shots as if that was the case then the whole sport has a bigger problem. 

Of course the lo low salary cap doesn't help in that it forces clubs to have academy players having to step up when injuries and suspensions hit.  Of course one can argue that a salary cap helps bring on other benefits but surely not as low as it is.

 

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