England Squad

[MattSantos]

1 minute ago, Balmain1969 said:

Doueihi is 6'3 and almost 100kg, its his defence stopping him from playing lock. Watching the games Hastings played 13 he was still playing first receiver most of the time with Doueihi on the right and Brooks on the left. 

I like Doueihi. He's potentially a Jack Wighton style 6 with the same ceiling

[MattSantos]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Wests Tigers finished bottom in 2022 and Hastings couldn't get a place place in the halves when they were at full strength.  He isn't one of the top 8 halves in the competition.

Eh, he's clearly one of the best going around. Just like Dylan Brown from last week.

It's hyperbole set to 13 or just trolling.

[Dunbar]

So with Walmsley out.

I think Tom Burgess, Mikołaj Olędzki and Luke Thompson are definites for selection and I think you need two more in a World Cup squad.

From the Combined Nations team you would think that Matt Cooper and Matty Lees are in the mix although I would also be looking at Ryan Sutton and Chris Hill as well.

[SydneyRoosters]

5 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Ok. So, i appreciate that this is subjective... but 8th is not one of the best players at that position. 

You're a troll 

You’re definitely the troll here mate, you’re calling for me to abused because of my opinion on a rugby player what’s wrong with you.

[MattSantos]

1 minute ago, SydneyRoosters said:

You’re definitely the troll here mate, you’re calling for me to abused because of my opinion on a rugby player what’s wrong with you.

No. I'm calling for your trolling to be 'abused'. Not you personally.

Again, subjectivity is all well and good, but you're just being silly.

Note - i should say mocked not abused. 2022 and all that.

Edited September 13, 2022 by MattSantos

[Davo5]

It doesn’t really matter where people rank Hastings,the simple fact is with injuries & lack of form,who do we have that’s better to play halfback in a WC.

[MattSantos]

Just now, Davo5 said:

It doesn’t really matter where people rank Hastings,the simple fact is with injuries & lack of form,who do we have that’s better to play halfback in a WC.

I do think Williams is a decent bet. He plays well with Bateman on an edge and wouldn't be 'new'.

It all depends on style, would Wane want to split the 6 and 7 or would he play a more 7 dominant structure with 13 one side and 6 t'other.

From what i understand, Knowles at 13 doesn't an option as a pivot? I know Radley does a little... 

It's not easy picking a team is it...

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So with Walmsley out.

I think Tom Burgess, Mikołaj Olędzki and Luke Thompson are definites for selection and I think you need two more in a World Cup squad.

From the Combined Nations team you would think that Matt Cooper and Matty Lees are in the mix although I would also be looking at Ryan Sutton and Chris Hill as well.

People say they want John Bateman in the team because of the 'mongrel' in him, if that is a pre-condition then Chris Hill must definatley get the nod.

[Dunbar]

The kicking game is where we need to be thinking first and foremost when we discuss our halves.  The reason why DCE and Cleary are the two candidates for the Kangaroos is because they both possess outstanding kicking games and game management. 

I think Williams has one of the better short kicking games, with variety and skill, but his long tactical kicking game is not as strong.  I am struggling to think of a half back pairing that provides the right level of game management. 

In fact, this is where we are miles behind Australia and why they are favourites for the World Cup.

[MattSantos]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The kicking game is where we need to be thinking first and foremost when we discuss our halves.  The reason why DCE and Cleary are the two candidates for the Kangaroos is because they both possess outstanding kicking games and game management. 

I think Williams has one of the better short kicking games, with variety and skill, but his long tactical kicking game is not as strong.  I am struggling to think of a half back pairing that provides the right level of game management. 

In fact, this is where we are miles behind Australia and why they are favourites for the World Cup.

I don't think we win a final against NZ/Aus playing an NRL, long kicking game, style.*

We absolutely need to be better than proficient, but i don't see us winning a low scoring game through defence like i could under Bennett. With that in mind, i would like to see us with a more varied kicking game. I wouldnt be against kicking to touch and trying to stop their big back 3 getting sets started in the way that they could.

*I think us and Tonga are same. We can beat Tonga through, ironically, being more patient than them etc

Edited September 13, 2022 by MattSantos

[bobbruce]

29 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

No I’m not only looking at nrl talent but  Lomax, Williams and Croft are Definitely not better than him. Walker and Townsend are close but ilias only nearly scrapes the top 20.

This despite the fact the year he won MOS he came out in the press multiple times to say Lomax was the best player in the comp. 

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

It doesn’t really matter where people rank Hastings,the simple fact is with injuries & lack of form,who do we have that’s better to play halfback in a WC.

I think that just about typifies what state our game is in Dav that we maybe  have to be reliant on a bang average Aussie to come to our aid. Just for discussion purposes who are the injuries and out of form halfbacks that could possibly fill the role?

[bobbruce]

25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So with Walmsley out.

I think Tom Burgess, Mikołaj Olędzki and Luke Thompson are definites for selection and I think you need two more in a World Cup squad.

From the Combined Nations team you would think that Matt Cooper and Matty Lees are in the mix although I would also be looking at Ryan Sutton and Chris Hill as well.

I haven’t seen a massive amount of him this year but Ormondroyd at Salford looks like he’s worth a punt. 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

I don't think we win a final against NZ/Aus playing an NRL, long kicking game, style.*

We absolutely need to be better than proficient, but i don't see us winning a low scoring game through defence like i could under Bennett. With that in mind, i would like to see us with a more varied kicking game. I wouldnt be against kicking to touch and trying to stop their big back 3 getting sets started in the way that they could.

I would have to watch that from behind the sofa!

Cleary or DCE would be pinning our back 3 into a corner forcing exit sets under pressure while we offer them a controlled restart while they casually get all their middles back onside.

We have been saying for decades that we have the pack to match the Kangaroos.  So why do we never get on top of their packs?  Because of their execution of the kicking game - our pack is constantly having to exit our own 20/half while their pack can start a set on the front foot.

For the last 30 years the key difference between England/Great Britain and Australia has been the quality of their kicking game.

[Dunbar]

Just now, bobbruce said:

I haven’t seen a massive amount of him this year but Ormondroyd at Salford looks like he’s worth a punt. 

He looks good.  A very big and physical player.

As with you, I haven't seen enough to say he is ready to step up.  Others may have.

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said:

I’m convinced no one in this forum have watched a single tigers game all year he has been there best player almost every game his played and there is no debating that. Not every halfback these days has to a flashy ball running, Line Breaker. Hastings is a fundamental half with incredible game IQ. He is one of the best halfbacks in the game full stop.

People forget the tigers management we're terrible this year. Letting there best players go and picking players out of position. There's a reason why there's a few clubs after Hastings next season

[SydneyRoosters]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

People forget the tigers management we're terrible this year. Letting there best players go and picking players out of position. There's a reason why there's a few clubs after Hastings next season

Where to rank Hastings among the all half backs in the world, as you seem to be the only other person on here who watches the nrl and knows how good Hastings is.

[Mojo]

4 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Where to rank Hastings among the all half backs in the world, as you seem to be the only other person on here who watches the nrl and knows how good Hastings is.

I know I said I don't watch SL but if Hastings played in the SL this season the English fans would be singing a different tune about him. Brooks and Douehi are the future of the tigers and they weren't gonna pick Hastings over the both of them.

[SydneyRoosters]

11 minutes ago, Mojo said:

I know I said I don't watch SL but if Hastings played in the SL this season the English fans would be singing a different tune about him. Brooks and Douehi are the future of the tigers and they weren't gonna pick Hastings over the both of them.

Yeah exactly English fans are on here calling Hastings bad acting like he didn’t just win man of steel a few years ago. I just think they don’t like Aussies who dominate their competition. Someone called him an (average Aussie half back) if he’s an average Aussie half back where does that rank everyone else in the super league .

Edited September 13, 2022 by SydneyRoosters

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Yeah exactly English fans are on here calling Hastings acting like he didn’t just win man of steel a few years ago. I just think they don’t like Aussies who dominate their competition. Someone called him an (average Aussie half back) if he’s an average Aussie half back where does that rank everyone else in the super league .

Any chance we can just have a conversation about the qualities of the players.

Hastings did very well for Salford but at Wigan his play making role did create a team that was pretty slow and predictable in attack.  The same for Wests in his first year there.  These are the faults in his game.  On the one hand you get structure, on the other some predictability.

I really don't think there is anything controversial in saying that his skills are in game management but you need more spark and creativity in the halves.  Either a very good halfback partner or (as both Wigan and Wests did) move him to 13 so that he can still act as distributor.

[SydneyRoosters]

2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Any chance we can just have a conversation about the qualities of the players.

Hastings did very well for Salford but at Wigan his play making role did create a team that was pretty slow and predictable in attack.  The same for Wests in his first year there.  These are the faults in his game.  On the one hand you get structure, on the other some predictability.

I really don't think there is anything controversial in saying that his skills are in game management but you need more spark and creativity in the halves.  Either a very good halfback partner or (as both Wigan and Wests did) move him to 13 so that he can still act as distributor.

I do agree he does need a good halves partner with spark to shine, But it do feel Williams or Lomax will do that. It’s a pity we didn’t get to see him play with Doueihi because every on here would be agreeing with me if we got to see that.

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, SydneyRoosters said:

I do agree he does need a good halves partner with spark to shine, But it do feel Williams or Lomax will do that. It’s a pity we didn’t get to see him play with Doueihi because every on here would be agreeing with me if we got to see that.

I am not sure that Lomax and Hastings would work but I agree that Williams and Hastings may complement each other.

Hastings has good game management while Williams is more instinctive with a good short kicking game.

I said on here a day or two ago that Williams and Sneyd may make a decent pairing.  Same with Williams and Hastings.

But, if fit, I expect Lomax to be in the 13.

[MattSantos]

31 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I would have to watch that from behind the sofa!

Cleary or DCE would be pinning our back 3 into a corner forcing exit sets under pressure while we offer them a controlled restart while they casually get all their middles back onside.

We have been saying for decades that we have the pack to match the Kangaroos.  So why do we never get on top of their packs?  Because of their execution of the kicking game - our pack is constantly having to exit our own 20/half while their pack can start a set on the front foot.

For the last 30 years the key difference between England/Great Britain and Australia has been the quality of their kicking game.

Why do we never get on top? You can go back 20 years and you'll see my posts trying to address this...

I think the kicking game does have a role to play, absolutely and i take your point about their middles being able to take a breather, but so would ours, too. It wouldnt be a ful in tactic, but i'd rather that than put in an ineffective kick, allow Tedesco to get a quick ptb and then Mitchel et al go on the back of that...Also, i think Cleary's kicking game is more aerial than pin point to corners, but yes.

I would add that there's no simple big bang answer, but broadly, we simply don't have the threat through the halves & on the edges so defences can jam in a little bit more.

I do worry about the difference in how we'll start our sets versus how they will mind..

Apologies for a very disjointed reply as i'm trying to listen to a call, but wanted to get back to you.

 

[Harry Stottle]

38 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I would have to watch that from behind the sofa!

Cleary or DCE would be pinning our back 3 into a corner forcing exit sets under pressure while we offer them a controlled restart while they casually get all their middles back onside.

We have been saying for decades that we have the pack to match the Kangaroos.  So why do we never get on top of their packs?  Because of their execution of the kicking game - our pack is constantly having to exit our own 20/half while their pack can start a set on the front foot.

For the last 30 years the key difference between England/Great Britain and Australia has been the quality of their kicking game.

If and it is a big if Mark Sneyd guides Salford to win the GF or for that matter to come very close to it, should he be considered for selection? I would say without fear of contradiction that there is not any other candidate who has the quality of the kicking game he possesses, having someone with the abillity to keep turning big packs around and making 'easy' meters for your own forwards is paramount in today's game,  not to mention the odd 40/20, 20/40.

[Damien]

Duplicate

Edited September 13, 2022 by Damien