SydneyRoosters Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think for what he offers a team, Brian To'o is the best winger in the World. Makinson is quality and England are lucky to have him. But after To'o, I don't think the other Penrith three quarters are particularly special and not the reason why the Panthers are the best team in the league. I would take Farnworth over both centres for example. As for Luai and Welsby. All about position this one I think. For example, at the moment I think Luai probably edges it at 6 (not a lot in it) as he is a specialist. Of course Welsby is far superior to Luai at full back. I would say on the whole Welsby is the better player of the two. Personally I would just have To’o In My top 5 Wingers right now. Don’t get me wrong he is an incredible player and a joy to watch but just basing go off this whole season he’s been a bit worse then expected. However he’s found tremendous form Recently so It puts him up. My winger Rankings- 1-Mulitalo 2-Makinson 3-Suaalii 4-To’o 5-Tupou Coates And Johnston Unlucky to Miss out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: More than 2 mate - isn't there 4 Saints players in the squad (from the champs) - including Knowles- arguably Englands best player. We was talking about backs, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said: Personally I would just have To’o In My top 5 Wingers right now. Don’t get me wrong he is an incredible player and a joy to watch but just basing go off this whole season he’s been a bit worse then expected. However he’s found tremendous form Recently so It puts him up. My winger Rankings- 1-Mulitalo 2-Makinson 3-Suaalii 4-To’o 5-Tupou Coates And Johnston Unlucky to Miss out. That's an interesting list. Tupou and Suaali'i play in the dame side. Tupou runs for more metres, breaks more tackles, makes more breaks, misses fewer tackles and makes fewer errors than Suaali'i. Why is Suaali'i better? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Theres nothing funnier than seeing someone so certain that their opinion is actual fact, only to find out he doesn't even watch half the players he`s discussing. In my opinion the Earth is 100% hotter than Mercury, I have no doubt about this, even though I've only actually ever been on the Earth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Blood Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said: My Opinion on the backlines- ()= Better of the two Joseph Suaalii 1 (Sam Tomkins) Brian To’o 2 (Tommy Makinson) (Izack Tago) 3 Kallum Watkins Stephen Crichton4 (Herbie Farnworth) Taylan May 5 Dominic Young (Draw) Jarome Luai 6 (Jack Welsby) Anthony Milford 7 (George Williams) England Are just simply stronger in almost every position. Surely this is a joke, To'o is better then Makinson, Tomkins is washed , Crtichon is better then Herbie. Welsby then Luai is taking the ###### 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Just now, Young Blood said: Surely this is a joke, To'o is better then Makinson, Tomkins is washed , Crtichon is better then Herbie. Welsby then Luai is taking the ###### Just a thought. Should we not actually see Suaali'i play full back before we decide how good he is? 2 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 17 minutes ago, Dunbar said: That's an interesting list. Tupou and Suaali'i play in the dame side. Tupou runs for more metres, breaks more tackles, makes more breaks, misses fewer tackles and makes fewer errors than Suaali'i. Why is Suaali'i better? I absolutely Love Tupou he’s probably my Favourite player along with Radley. Personally though this season Suaalii has turned into our main kicking threat and has been very effective at punching through the line. Tupou is better at catch Saftey and a lot of other things though. I love both and now that I think about it probably equal but I can’t put the them together on a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Young Blood said: Surely this is a joke, To'o is better then Makinson, Tomkins is washed , Crtichon is better then Herbie. Welsby then Luai is taking the ###### Ok Cool Opinion. May I ask you a question though to you watch the super league regularly. Or have you ever even woken up and watched 1 game of super league. Because I feel your opinions a purely based on that one plays in the NRL and one doesn’t. (You’ll probably say you do watch super league but your most likely lying) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Just a thought. Should we not actually see Suaali'i play full back before we decide how good he is? No If you play in the NRL you are instantly better than any Super league player. Issac Lumelume over Tommy Makinson any day of the week and Brad Schneider over Jonny Lomax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 37 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said: Sorry but I also can’t get onboard with this. To say every Samoan player in the backline is better than every English player in there backline is the definition of ridiculous. As I said Makinson is Better at everything compared To’o Apart from tackle breaking and I don’t think that should be a debate he’s game smarts, Defence, Catch Saftey, Pace, Ariel Ability (At his height) are second to none. Like I said Wayne Bennett (Who is arguably the smartest man in rugby league) has said Makinson as the best winger in the world before. That should give you a pretty straight foward Answer to the debate. As a person who has watched Probably every game Luai has played this year and A lot of Welsby’s Games I can quite comfortably say Welsby is the better of the two. I would also argue Welsby is better at almost every part of a 5/8’s Game and like I said If Welsby was in the NRL he would be the next Andrew Johns. Team Fluidity is a fair point but I was simply comparing the individual players so that does not come into factor. The problem I have with almost all of what you're saying though is you're comparing them in their respective leagues. I know i'm dong the same (because that's all we can do) but a certain level of weighting is required to talk about them like for like. You obviously watch both comps so tell me if you disagree, but I always look at it as the worst NRL teams (Wests, Dogs, Titans etc) would compete pretty well with the best of SL. More telling still, the worst of the NRL would hammer the worst of SL very comfortably. So when I watch week in week out what these kind of players are doing, I'm very mindful of who it's against and that's why i'm so excited to see Farnworth and Young in England jumpers. You're right to focus on Makinson as the strongest for SL offering though, he is. Maybe he was once described that way by Bennett - he's not currently better than To'o though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think for what he offers a team, Brian To'o is the best winger in the World. Makinson is quality and England are lucky to have him. But after To'o, I don't think the other Penrith three quarters are particularly special and not the reason why the Panthers are the best team in the league. I would take Farnworth over both centres for example. As for Luai and Welsby. All about position this one I think. For example, at the moment I think Luai probably edges it at 6 (not a lot in it) as he is a specialist. Of course Welsby is far superior to Luai at full back. I would say on the whole Welsby is the better player of the two. Sure there's a lot more to the Panthers than their backs and I hope I was quick to point out that overall in the game we've got a good chance of winning, because I think we'll be a better team all things considered. But if I was doing a backs v backs drill, attack and defence in training, I know who my money would be on to come out on top. Edited October 5, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 In other news and arguably back on topic....I'm massively confused by this squad announcement..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 50 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: We was talking about backs, right? We were then we moved onto players from the same team - come on keep up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: In other news and arguably back on topic....I'm massively confused by this squad announcement..... Players like Smith and Powell have been helping in training sessions. I presume this is resting players or not taking chances. NZ are doing similar with the likes of Willie Isa being picked instead of their NRL grand final contingent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: We were then we moved onto players from the same team - come on keep up. Ah the old goalpost shifting - I see you, Mr Frisk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: The problem I have with almost all of what you're saying though is you're comparing them in their respective leagues. I know i'm dong the same (because that's all we can do) but a certain level of weighting is required to talk about them like for like. You obviously watch both comps so tell me if you disagree, but I always look at it as the worst NRL teams (Wests, Dogs, Titans etc) would compete pretty well with the best of SL. More telling still, the worst of the NRL would hammer the worst of SL very comfortably. So when I watch week in week out what these kind of players are doing, I'm very mindful of who it's against and that's why i'm so excited to see Farnworth and Young in England jumpers. You're right to focus on Makinson as the strongest for SL offering though, he is. Maybe he was once described that way by Bennett - he's not currently better than To'o though. Personally Based everything we have available English Internationals, Limited World Club Challenges, English Players Playing In The NRL, Aussies players in SL and purely just watching the two. I do think the NRL’s Standard is quite a lot better than the SL’s However The Super League is still a quality league. I do agree that Dogs, Titans Etc would probably finish around 5-8 In SL and if Tigers and Toulouse played tomorrow Tigers win by probably around 20-30 Points. I have always seen the leagues around the same difference as the Premier league and Serie A. I don’t watch much soccer/Football but for example I’m fairly certain someone like Phil Foden would be one of the best players in the Serie a. This is just like If say for example Jeremiah Nanai or Joseph Suaalii went to the super league, they would be some of the best players in the competition. However I don’t think many people see it that way. I would base that mainly of not enough competitive matches between the two. Almost everyones judgment of the two leagues Is entirely based Brodie Croft, Jackson Hastings or Jai Field Doing well in the super league. Which is not a correct judgement of the two competitions. All of those players where players in the NRL who showed potential to become top players in the competition however they couldn’t seem to live up to the potential. So instead they went to England and found themselves especially Brodie Croft. He was being called the next Cooper Cronk at such a young age but now after a change of scenery and getting rid of all of that pressure on his back he can flurish. We’ve started to see the turnaround of these players Jackson Hastings for example moving back to the tigers. I thought he did really well the season and was easily the tigers best and I can’t wait to see what he does next year. I back tigers to make the 8 personally and him to be a big part of it. Edited October 5, 2022 by SydneyRoosters 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: In other news and arguably back on topic....I'm massively confused by this squad announcement..... Are Marshall, Smith and Powell stand by players or is Wane using his Wigan association to add them to the squad so he can give some key players 40 minutes or so then get them off the pitch and wrapped in cotton wool. 2 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: In other news and arguably back on topic....I'm massively confused by this squad announcement..... Powell over Clark, Leeming and McShane ? seriously. Edit - aha I see the pattern Edited October 5, 2022 by SydneyRoosters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Damien said: Players like Smith and Powell have been helping in training sessions. I presume this is resting players or not taking chances. NZ are doing similar with the likes of Willie Isa being picked instead of their NRL grand final contingent. Just seems odd though when you have a squad of 24 - you could still rest players you know will start or have slight knocks. Fair enough if they're just been used to fill out the prematch team list, but if they actually play it tells me Wane didn't really want this friendly and/or isn't interested to have a look at anything new before the opening game. Edit: does this game have standard interchange rules or they more relaxed? If the latter then makes more sense I guess if he's limiting minutes. Edited October 5, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: Just seems odd though when you have a squad of 24 - you could still rest players you know will start or have slight knocks. Fair enough if they're just been used to fill out the prematch team list, but if they actually play it tells me Wane didn't really want this friendly and/or isn't interested to have a look at anything new before the opening game. A squad of 24 really isn't that big and its obvious he has made his mind up about players like Makinson and Tomkins. A few who played in the Grand Final are missing and I presume the likes of Batchelor and Welsby are more borderline and he wants to take a look/try things. I presume players will have limited minutes with plenty of interchanges too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Pleased to see Herbie in that team . He had to play to blow the cobwebs off and hopefully he comes through with flying colours I think he’s very important 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Damien said: A squad of 24 really isn't that big and its obvious he has made his mind up about players like Makinson and Tomkins. A few who played in the Grand Final are missing and I presume the likes of Batchelor and Welsby are more borderline and he wants to take a look/try things. I presume players will have limited minutes with plenty of interchanges too. I am sure Wane has made his mind up about Tomkins but I am surprised he doesn't want to see how he links with the halves and edge forwards / outside backs in a game situation. Surely executing some of the plays they practice is the point of a warm up game... even for 40 minutes. I just hope that Tomkins is not still nursing his injury. That would be a risk with a squad of only 24 and relatively few options in the backline already. 3 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: In other news and arguably back on topic....I'm massively confused by this squad announcement..... Only a Wiganer would think Sam Powell is ''international class''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Damien said: A squad of 24 really isn't that big and its obvious he has made his mind up about players like Makinson and Tomkins. A few who played in the Grand Final are missing and I presume the likes of Batchelor and Welsby are more borderline and he wants to take a look/try things. I presume players will have limited minutes with plenty of interchanges too. Yeah that's fair - just a shame we won't get to see anything like what we all expect our first game run on side will be. Even if it was just for limited minutes. 44 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I am sure Wane has made his mind up about Tomkins but I am surprised he doesn't want to see how he links with the halves and edge forwards / outside backs in a game situation. Surely executing some of the plays they practice is the point of a warm up game... even for 40 minutes. I just hope that Tomkins is not still nursing his injury. That would be a risk with a squad of only 24 and relatively few options in the backline already. I suspect this is the case to be honest rather than just being rested. It is a concern and I fully expect Welsby to start against Fiji at FB so Wane can have a good look at him there with the England boys in front of him. Oledzki also left out which again I suspect more to do with a knock than resting. Edited October 5, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Dunbar said: Are Marshall, Smith and Powell stand by players or is Wane using his Wigan association to add them to the squad so he can give some key players 40 minutes or so then get them off the pitch and wrapped in cotton wool. I'd imagine there'll be rolling subs like in the PM's XIII vs PNG game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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