RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[HawkMan]

Interestingly it seems fans have accepted we are in a comparison battle with Women's football which a few years back was nowhere, in the U.K. at least,  somethin' ain't right.

Edited November 7, 2022 by HawkMan

[FearTheVee]

18 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Of course it hasn't happened, which this tournament has demonstrated to the millions watching on TV.  We can be sure that the government will not be pleased.

By your logic it’s the RLWC organisers that should be angry with the government as their Northern Powerhouse guff hasn’t resulted in enough people getting sufficiently wealthy to buy rugby league world cup tickets.

on that basis maybe they’ll write us another cheque for the shortfall.

[Big Picture]

4 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

By your logic it’s the RLWC organisers that should be angry with the government as their Northern Powerhouse guff hasn’t resulted in enough people getting sufficiently wealthy to buy rugby league world cup tickets.

on that basis maybe they’ll write us another cheque for the shortfall.

ROFLMAO that's a good one!

[Platform 3]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Tonga v Samoa - 12.6k. It was good, but not much different to Aus v Scotland and actually lower than NZ v Ireland in Leeds for example. 

It's right that we try and improve competitiveness, but I'm not sure structure change is the right way to go. 

It is interesting that RL fans always criticise authorities for focusing on structure changes, but fans jump straight to that mindset too.

So I've had a quick look, and so far I can work out the crowd for Tonga v Somoa was the third largest in WC history for a match not including GB/England, Australia, NZ or PNG. 

Just how many people should have been there?

[The Masked Poster]

17 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Interestingly it seems fans have accepted we are in a comparison battle with Women's football which a few years back was nowhere, in the U.K. at least,  somethin' ain't right.

I'm reasonably sure that if, say, in the year 2004, after a decent 4 Nations (despite the ending) which had some good crowds, you had posted on here that RL would be overtaken by women's football in terms of international crowds, you'd have been laughed out of town. And yet here we are.

However, one thing could help change that around....an England victory in the WC final. It won't solve everything but it will focus Aussie minds a bit more. 

[GUBRATS]

32 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No, they're not. But we could and should be looking at 100s rather than 10s.

Incidentally, the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup had even higher average gates - and that was in Canada.

I checked out of curiosity earlier. It shows the importance of venue selection though because my memory was of bank after bank of empty seats - which is what you get when you have 10-20k crowds in 40-50k venues.

So you think that we should be expecting 100s of fans from Fiji,Cook Islands,Samoa,Tonga,Jamaica ,Greece and Lebanon to fly over for the WC ? , I doubt we've had that many Aussies and Kiwi's 

No idea what point you're attempting to make about Canada's previous Football WC 

It's really not comparable in any way shape or form 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you think that we should be expecting 100s of fans from Fiji,Cook Islands,Samoa,Tonga,Jamaica ,Greece and Lebanon to fly over for the WC ? , I doubt we've had that many Aussies and Kiwi's 

No idea what point you're attempting to make about Canada's previous Football WC 

It's really not comparable in any way shape or form 

You seemed to be saying that it was because the last one was in France - and thus easy travel from all of Europe - that they had good travelling numbers (and this last Euros did too). I was merely pointing out that it was true for the women's world cup in Canada four years before too.

So, yes, we should be getting travelling fans. After all, you've said yourself that you expect to travel to France in three years time

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Platform 3 said:

So I've had a quick look, and so far I can work out the crowd for Tonga v Somoa was the third largest in WC history for a match not including GB/England, Australia, NZ or PNG. 

Just how many people should have been there?

Well yes, if you add loads of caveats and strip out anything that is better, we can make anything look good. 

[gingerjon]

25 minutes ago, Platform 3 said:

So I've had a quick look, and so far I can work out the crowd for Tonga v Somoa was the third largest in WC history for a match not including GB/England, Australia, NZ or PNG. 

You got that from a quick look?

[GUBRATS]

41 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You seemed to be saying that it was because the last one was in France - and thus easy travel from all of Europe - that they had good travelling numbers (and this last Euros did too). I was merely pointing out that it was true for the women's world cup in Canada four years before too.

So, yes, we should be getting travelling fans. After all, you've said yourself that you expect to travel to France in three years time

Yes I'll hopefully go to France , it'll be the only chance I ever have of going to a tournament abroad , would I go to OZ or NZ ( yes to visit my brother ) for a WC ? , No 

As for Canada , no doubt there was some fans travelling from Europe , but I'll bet a lot more came from the US where women's football was/is probably bigger in participation numbers than the male version , only a guesstimate on my part , no doubt you'll have the true figures at your fingertips 

But let's STOP comparing RL to any form of football 

Edited November 7, 2022 by GUBRATS

[Platform 3]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well yes, if you add loads of caveats and strip out anything that is better, we can make anything look good. 

I'm just not sure how realistic it is to expect larger crowds for matches featuring players that are generally unheard of in this country. 

I'm quite a fan of rugby league but I've not watched more than about 30 minutes of NRL action in my life.

And yes, cutting out everything bar the big three and three PNG home matches in 2017 is quite something. 

No GB or England match against anyone other than Australia or NZ has had a bigger crowd than the Samoa opener.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Platform 3

[The Masked Poster]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes I'll hopefully go to France , would I go to OZ or NZ ( yes to visit my brother ) for a WC ? , No 

As for Canada , no doubt there was some fans travelling from Europe , but I'll bet a lot more came from the US where women's football was/is probably bigger in participation numbers than the male version , only a guesstimate on my part , no doubt you'll have the true figures at your fingertips 

But let's STOP comparing RL to any form of football 

Which game you're comparing to is almost irrelevant, it's the mentality that is different. I honestly wouldn't go to see England RU for free but I'm in the minority. Their fans seem to find ways to attend. We just produce a list of excuses or say attendances aren't important. 

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Which game you're comparing to is almost irrelevant, it's the mentality that is different. I honestly wouldn't go to see England RU for free but I'm in the minority. Their fans seem to find ways to attend. We just produce a list of excuses or say attendances aren't important. 

We don't need to compare to anything 

We just need to improve , each time preferably

Be sensible on pricing , sensible , not cheap , just sensible , make it simpler , yes , don't concentrate it too much as we've seen this time , maybe use a couple of the better Championship stadiums in Yorkshire , involve the local councils more in ' owning ' a team as we saw in 2013 , accept that some games will be blow outs , but fill the stands either way 

 

[The Masked Poster]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We don't need to compare to anything 

We just need to improve , each time preferably

Be sensible on pricing , sensible , not cheap , just sensible , make it simpler , yes , don't concentrate it too much as we've seen this time , maybe use a couple of the better Championship stadiums in Yorkshire , involve the local councils more in ' owning ' a team as we saw in 2013 , accept that some games will be blow outs , but fill the stands either way 

 

Well we sort of do need to compare with other sports drawing from the same pool of people who have a little bit of money spare and want to spend some of it on entertainment. 

Because they are not buying into RL, so rather than stick our heads in the sand, it might be worth asking why. It doesn't matter how 'simple' something is, if there is no demand or desire to go to something, it can be as simple or complicated as it likes. 

And to address your other points, this is the whole problem, we aren't improving. 

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Well we sort of do need to compare with other sports drawing from the same pool of people who have a little bit of money spare and want to spend some of it on entertainment. 

Because they are not buying into RL, so rather than stick our heads in the sand, it might be worth asking why. It doesn't matter how 'simple' something is, if there is no demand or desire to go to something, it can be as simple or complicated as it likes. 

And to address your other points, this is the whole problem, we aren't improving. 

Mistakes have been made , lessons from last time not learned , maybe we've compared ourselves to other sports too much in this case , thinking we are chasing the same market , when we need to find our own 

[Mr Frisky]

30 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Which game you're comparing to is almost irrelevant, it's the mentality that is different. I honestly wouldn't go to see England RU for free but I'm in the minority. Their fans seem to find ways to attend. We just produce a list of excuses or say attendances aren't important. 

I went to Wembley about 10 or so years ago to watch a RU club game as a mate got some cheap tickets - there was 80,000 inside - for a club league game!

I was bored beyond belief and I realised about halfway through the first half most of the people around me were just talking and didn't know the rules or the players but had attended as it was deemed an event.

Not sure RL could ever achieve that but there must be something to copy for RL.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

I went to Wembley about 10 or so years ago to watch a RU club game as a mate got some cheap tickets - there was 80,000 inside - for a club league game!

I was bored beyond belief and I realised about halfway through the first half most of the people around me were just talking and didn't know the rules or the players but had attended as it was deemed an event.

Not sure RL could ever achieve that but there must be something to copy for RL.

Probably given time , but we are different , although not all from Yorkshire we aren't easily parted from our money

[The Masked Poster]

14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Mistakes have been made , lessons from last time not learned , maybe we've compared ourselves to other sports too much in this case , thinking we are chasing the same market , when we need to find our own 

We do have our own though - and it's shrinking. Which is exactly the problem. 

[RigbyLuger]

5 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nah, the advent of the Premier League blew that whole argument out of the water. Saturation TV coverage drives attendance from increased event awareness, it doesn't dilute it

It's an argument from 1952 not 2022, isn't it?

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

We do have our own though - and it's shrinking. Which is exactly the problem. 

Then we need to grow it 

[The Masked Poster]

13 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

I went to Wembley about 10 or so years ago to watch a RU club game as a mate got some cheap tickets - there was 80,000 inside - for a club league game!

I was bored beyond belief and I realised about halfway through the first half most of the people around me were just talking and didn't know the rules or the players but had attended as it was deemed an event.

Not sure RL could ever achieve that but there must be something to copy for RL.

Getting these casual punters seems to largely evade RL. Although at the 2013 RLWC semi at Wembley, I was sat with first time attendees (southerners) and they seemed to thoroughly enjoy it, so it can be done. 

[The Masked Poster]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Then we need to grow it 

And what are the indications that this will happen? 

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

And what are the indications that this will happen? 

Things don't just happen , it comes down to individual clubs to work harder 

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, Platform 3 said:

I'm just not sure how realistic it is to expect larger crowds for matches featuring players that are generally unheard of in this country. 

I'm quite a fan of rugby league but I've not watched more than about 30 minutes of NRL action in my life.

And yes, cutting out everything bar the big three and three PNG home matches in 2017 is quite something. 

No GB or England match against anyone other than Australia or NZ has had a bigger crowd than the Samoa opener.

What your analysis fails to highlight is that the vast majority of RLWC games have included Eng, Aus, NZ or PNG. So if you strip those out, of course all you will be left with are the lower crowds. 

But the actual point of my post that you quoted was to highlight that despite it being billed as a must-see event, it likely to be an epic battle, it still attracted lower than some games that were going to be walkovers. Similarly, the NZ v Fiji attractive QF performed poorly versus many walkovers. 

My point is that whilst the on field battles clearly have an impact, in a World Cup we need to be careful not to make it all about that. If we just keep changing structure and think staging tight games will be the saviour, we will be disappointed in 3 years, then 4 years later and so on. 

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Getting these casual punters seems to largely evade RL. Although at the 2013 RLWC semi at Wembley, I was sat with first time attendees (southerners) and they seemed to thoroughly enjoy it, so it can be done. 

London internationals tend to have very different crowds to other RL games. Newcastle was very different too for the opener.