Jump to content

What's next internationally?


The Lad
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

England Knights being in the European comp makes it instantly commercially unviable - no UK broadcaster will show it if it isn't the full England team. And it devalues the competition for those other countries, so they'll be less likely to get a strong team out. This type of European competition has been run for years (albeit more 4 nations, rather than 6), and without England these competitions never get any mainstream profile at all.

Absolutely. It would  be YouTube  only 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


7 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

But I'm not sure a tournament where it's 99% certain England will win (and will win with big scores) is gonna interest tv networks and audience. 

 

That was my reasoning for having England Knights over regular England 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taking each nation in turn, we face 4 challenges that I see, aside from a structural one which is, especially using the NRL rules, our game is too unforgiving when there is a mismatch in quality (especially compared with football):

- the SH nations can play among themselves, building on the improvements across the board with Tonga, Samoa, PNG and Fiji (and the player pathways). This requires the NRL to allow players to play internationals. Surely they won’t stop them??? The challenge here is a simple one: how can we persuade one of the 4 top teams to play in England??/

- the emerging European nations have an established amateur structure, supported by the IRL and ERL. The main outliers here are Wales, whose performances were a highlight of the World Cup. How can they grow? It would help if they could call on all of their heritage players: eg Knowles was an asset for England, but we could have lived without him, and Wales would really have benefited from his playing for them. If we could find a way to help push them forward, that would be great. It seems very hard to see, but the upsides are so great, and the downside risk (see above) of the SH pulling up the drawbridge makes a competitive Wales all the more important. Maybe we could give salary cap exemptions for Wales union players? 

- we need France to be better. They are around 8th/9th, but that level does not allow for competitive matches against the big 5. We would all be so so much better if there was a strong French team. Maybe, we look again at protecting Toulouse, the residency eligibility rules, and apply a union cap exemption; and 

- we need any of the big 4 teams to play England in England in the next 2 years. Surely that can be achieved???

If I were based in the SH, I would be thrilled at the state of the world game, with potentially some version of the Oceania Cup giving fantastic games week after week in the post season international window. Separate from the triumph that is SoO. 

Honestly, I fear for the NH game, while at the same time I believe that, if the SH nations carry us these next few years, we can kick on and strengthen the game up here. 

Triumph or disaster - which will it be? 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

But I'm not sure a tournament where it's 99% certain England will win (and will win with big scores) is gonna interest tv networks and audience. 

But all the available evidence tells us that tv networks and audience (and in some cases, the better players) are not interested in a tournament that England isn't in. So if it has no commercial value, how is such a tournament ever going to prosper?

And if by 'audience' you mean the typical RL viewing audience, then I agree that many won't be interested. But we need to use these games to engage a new audience IMO. People like some friends of mine who have shown zero interest in RL before, but who went to watch England thrash Greece and thoroughly enjoyed themselves and have said they would go again. There is a massive potential audience out there that needs tapping in to. More of the same old, same old just isn't going to achieve that - we need to do something different.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

But all the available evidence tells us that tv networks and audience (and in some cases, the better players) are not interested in a tournament that England isn't in. So if it has no commercial value, how is such a tournament ever going to prosper?

And if by 'audience' you mean the typical RL viewing audience, then I agree that many won't be interested. But we need to use these games to engage a new audience IMO. People like some friends of mine who have shown zero interest in RL before, but who went to watch England thrash Greece and thoroughly enjoyed themselves and have said they would go again. There is a massive potential audience out there that needs tapping in to. More of the same old, same old just isn't going to achieve that - we need to do something different.

I see what you mean, but there that event had the World Cup umbrella and was seen as attractive. Not sure it'll happen with some European tournament. And we'd be back to the very problem: England should renounce to high intensity games (such as thos v SH opposition)? 
I'd be very happy to see England playing 3 times European opposition and 3 times a Southern Emisphere one. 

As a person who has been involved within the staff of a non tier 1 nations, I'd add it's very expensive for little rl nations to have heritage players flying to Europe and they can only afford it for World Cup qualifiers and World Cup. 

Edited by MatthewWoody

Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I see what you mean, but there that event had the World Cup umbrella and was seen as attractive. Not sure it'll happen with some European tournament. And we'd be back to the very problem: England should renounce to high intensity games (such as thos v SH opposition)?  

But until we try it (and I mean properly try it - not half-arsing it by putting games on in Leigh or Warrington and relying on the existing audience with zero promotion) then we'll never know.

29 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I'd be very happy to see England playing 3 times European opposition and 3 times a Southern Emisphere one.

This would be the ideal for me. Bottom line is we need far more international games in order to raise RL's profile.

30 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

As a person who has been involved within the staff of a non tier 1 nations, I'd add it's very expensive for little rl nations to have heritage players flying to Europe and they can only afford it for World Cup qualifiers and World Cup. 

But is part of that issue because those other games have zero commercial value? I.e. the previous Euro tournaments (which were run annually) never had any involvement with the full England side, and consequently were played in front of the proverbial man and his dog. Besides, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man (or woman) to incorporate world cup qualifying points into a Euro nations comp.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does the Euro cup have a final? or is it just league....   As you might not get live tv for the group games (but maybe highlights), but you might be able to market the final on tv.

But if there is not a Final then yes might be difficult to get a tv deal for euro cup

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was talking to a West Country contact today, and he was enthusing about the wheelchair tournament… it’s reach has been extraordinary. 

How about having France - England games in all 3 disciplines? That would be something someone should be able to sell. Who wouldn’t want to see those 2 in a wheelchair rematch? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would like a few mid season internationals rather than a one off game.

I'm glad England are playing France but would have liked a return fixture in France too. 

.

Could have a Celtic cup involving Wales, Scotland and Ireland mid season too.

Spain, Italy, Greece and Serbia could play in a Mediterranean cup.

They are all good excuses to play internationals mid season. They would also give the countries the chance to play domestic players without any NRL influence 

The end of the season could then be used for official tournaments such as the Euros, MEA championship, Americas Championship etc

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/11/2022 at 16:27, Exiled Wiganer said:

we need France to be better. They are around 8th/9th, but that level does not allow for competitive matches against the big 5. We would all be so so much better if there was a strong French team. Maybe, we look again at protecting Toulouse, the residency eligibility rules, and apply a union cap exemption; and 

I agree with your assessment and just wanted to add to this point.

I think Lebanon are an ideal "3rd team" for the Northern Hemisphere, at least on the pitch. 

They are competitive enough to be a contest for England, yet also not so far off France to make that game a drubbing. They sit quite neatly in between the two. Add in Wales who with spirit and a bit more competitive edge aren't far off France and a competitive Ireland side for example and suddenly the mens NH landscape looks a bit more robust. Yes it isn't the powerhouse of the pacific, but its not totally dire either.

In years when the Southern Hemisphere nations don't come north to tour, which in a 4 year world cup cycle is likely to be at least once if not twice, then it certainly wouldn't be a bad outcome to start building up the above as a new competition.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 22/11/2022 at 17:37, Northern Eel said:

Get it done...

2023 - Mid season test match, England v France. European Championships in Autumn involving the Knights, England to SH for a 4 Nations tournament

2024 - Mid-season test match, England v France, Kangaroo tour for 3 Tests in England

2025 - World Cup, France

2023 4 Nations tournament, which of Tonga or Samoa misses out so England can neglect playing more local opposition? And why do the organisers of such a comp accommodate England to do that? And why do they move from the 6 team Oceania Cup they already have?

England/GB are no longer the centre of the universe for Kangaroo or Kiwi international opposition. They have other viable options that they have an interest in developing. They're not going to bin off England entirely, but they don't need us as much as they did 10 years ago.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

This would be a short term fox to a long term issue. 
 

Keep it for Australians the problem is that if you start involving kiwis you suddenly start to make origin the so called pinnacle again by involving the best of England etc. I think ultimately this will once again detract from the fact that representing your country is the pinnacle and always should be. I don’t think making all kiwis and Englishmen eligible a good thing. The IRL and the other governing bodies need to grow the game outside of Australia and have the international respected and even better than origin. This may take 20-50 years but we need to invest into tests not worrying about making eligibility for origin open to all. The Aussies are trying to control that narrative again they want the Jason taumalolos playing for them because they can see the trend that the other nations are building a brand that in 15-20 years time could rival origin. Don’t fall for this short term solution it’s not worth it 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

2023 4 Nations tournament, which of Tonga or Samoa misses out so England can neglect playing more local opposition? And why do the organisers of such a comp accommodate England to do that? And why do they move from the 6 team Oceania Cup they already have?

England/GB are no longer the centre of the universe for Kangaroo or Kiwi international opposition. They have other viable options that they have an interest in developing. They're not going to bin off England entirely, but they don't need us as much as they did 10 years ago.

Don’t get me wrong, with much of that I agree. My main point is that England have to find a way of maintaining SH competition somehow, as they are the only NH team capable of competing. 
 

Maybe the SH teams can do a tri-nations (better for fixture management) with the 4th team dropping out in turn to play a test series against England each year. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Iceberg Slim said:

This would be a short term fox to a long term issue. 
 

Keep it for Australians the problem is that if you start involving kiwis you suddenly start to make origin the so called pinnacle again by involving the best of England etc. I think ultimately this will once again detract from the fact that representing your country is the pinnacle and always should be. I don’t think making all kiwis and Englishmen eligible a good thing. The IRL and the other governing bodies need to grow the game outside of Australia and have the international respected and even better than origin. This may take 20-50 years but we need to invest into tests not worrying about making eligibility for origin open to all. The Aussies are trying to control that narrative again they want the Jason taumalolos playing for them because they can see the trend that the other nations are building a brand that in 15-20 years time could rival origin. Don’t fall for this short term solution it’s not worth it 

"Again"? As an event, Origin is already the pinnacle.

Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

2023 4 Nations tournament, which of Tonga or Samoa misses out so England can neglect playing more local opposition? And why do the organisers of such a comp accommodate England to do that? And why do they move from the 6 team Oceania Cup they already have?

England/GB are no longer the centre of the universe for Kangaroo or Kiwi international opposition. They have other viable options that they have an interest in developing. They're not going to bin off England entirely, but they don't need us as much as they did 10 years ago.

Touring the UK and playing in Premier League stadia is still an important experience for Aus rl players. Without any international club football scene and with International scene that is very small compared to other sport, tours in France and England are still important for players.

Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Touring the UK and playing in Premier League stadia is still an important experience for Aus rl players. Without any international club football scene and with International scene that is very small compared to other sport, tours in France and England are still important for players.

Of course it is, but it isn't their only option as it used to be merely a handful of years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...