European Championships 2023 - Confirmed by ERL

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Is there enough money and following?

I think one or both of these questions could arguably be levelled at some of the clubs currently in SL.

5 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Have their clubs showed SL ambition and structures?

I wouldn't envisage it being either of the existing clubs. IMO it should be a club based in Cardiff.

6 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

When their team and Wales (ok, rarely, but when) play at home, how are their crowds numbers? 

When Crusaders were in SL their crowd numbers were comparable with some other current SL clubs. Too difficult to gauge the interest for the national team, because (a) they play at home so infrequently, and (b) when they do it's normally a poorly promoted competition and/or at an unattractive location.

[MatthewWoody]

While I agree with you, I tend to believe it's not as easy as it may seem. We can't just say it has to be better promoted. It's not a magical thing...

While France has got a strong base movement (not perfect, not as big as ru, not as big as rl in England, but miles better and bigger than Welsh rl), we can't say the same about Wales. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

7 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Knowles was born in Cumbria, England, so it's understandable. It wasn't a real "switch" towards England. 

But if Knowles was getting the same opportunities playing for Wales as he would get playing for England, would he have felt the same need to switch? Maybe, maybe not. Besides, the Eoin Morgan issue is still valid - as it stands, a genuinely Welsh-born player would have to switch to England to maximise his earning potential and access the same playing opportunities, and every single Welsh player who come through a SL academy system will be eligible to make this choice on residency grounds. This is what Rhys Evans chose to do before reverting back to Wales when his England career wasn't going anywhere.

13 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I can't see the point about the Knights thing...

If England Knights are playing in this Euro tournament, then it will result in a diminished profile for the tournament - no way will BBC show an England B team. If the tournament lacks profile, then why will the best players decide to play in it? And if England Knights are playing in it, then presumably that's because the full England team are doing something better. And if they're doing something better, then a hypothetical superstar Welsh-qualified player may well want to do that better thing and change his allegiance to England, rather than play for Wales. Or he could go and play RU. So I cannot see the home nations developing much at all by playing in this Euro Championships if it isn't a high profile competition. They'll just tread water until the next major competition comes along and the best eligible players will suddenly come out of the woodwork to play in it.

There's been 5 European Championships since the 2008 WC, and with the best will in the world, the home nations didn't made any noticeable progress at all in that period. Apart from the games in France, crowds have never got much above the 2k mark. Without a full England team, the competition just won't have any profile, the best players won't play, and we'll be having the same conversations in 4 years' time about how best to develop the home nations.

[MatthewWoody]

So what should England do? Renounce di play NZ? In order to maybe have Welsh players not switching one day? 

Would the BBC showing games without any big profile (would crows be better? People already know England are winning it) help? 

I see what you mean but you're asking England a lot, for a tournament we don't know it's working or not (more probably not). Good players are committing because it's World Cup qualifiers for France, Wales, etc. 

In addition to this, England RL is not England football or ru (they would fill the stadium even against my 7k people hometown team), so there a good possibility the BBC (if they want to...) is broadcasting a one sided game with a 4-5k people crowd. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by MatthewWoody

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

So what should England do? Renounce di play NZ?

I think this is a valid point, but it completely misses the serious reality that NZ don't necessarily want to, and certainly don't need to, play England next year.

It is in England's interest to build up as many nations to play, particularly those closer to us geographically, because of this situation we find ourselves in.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Wales Rugby League is the recognised national governing body for rugby league in Wales. It is their job and purpose to organise and develop rugby league in Wales.

Not sure how else I can keep explaining the simple, basic fact that the national governing body in place for rugby league in Wales is Wales Rugby League.

Evidently the WRL are the National Governing Body for the game in Wales. 

Evidently the RFL also still have a constitutional interest in and purpose towards the sport of Rugby League across the UK and Ireland.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

So what should England do? Renounce di play NZ? In order to maybe have Welsh players not switching one day? 

If (and it currently looks like a pretty big 'if') they have the opportunity, then play as GB, and have England play in the Euros instead of calling it England Knights. Ideally, I would rather a Euro comp was scheduled mid-season, and the Autumn was either a GB series or International comp (e.g. WC and some sort of 6-8 nations comp) which would allow home nations players the same opportunities for involvement. This could help encourage players to make themselves available for their nations during the Summer, as it would also put them in the shop window for selection for the big Autumn comps. Unfortunately I can't see the SL clubs agreeing to release players, or to reduce fixtures to allow for a mid-season international break.

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

Would the BBC showing games without any big profile (would crows be better?

Forum members of a certain age will well remember the big crows...

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

I see what you mean but you're asking England a lot, for a tournament we don't know it's working or not (more probably not). Good players are committing because it's World Cup qualifiers for France, Wales, etc. 

In addition to this, England RL is not England football or ru (they would fill the stadium even against my 7k people hometown team), so there a good possibility the BBC (if they want to...) is broadcasting a one sided game with a 4-5k people crowd. 

I don't deny it would be a bit of a risk, but the RFL needs to aim high and really try and develop and value the international scene. And also give it time to build instead of canning it after 1 or 2 seasons like they do with a lot of their schemes. I keep coming back to the adage "If you always do what you've always done, you always get what you always got". The majority of suggestions around this proposed Euro comp are along the lines of re-hashing the same stuff that we've done several times before. And as I say, the Euro Championships in previous years has done next to nothing with regard to improving the competitiveness of the other European nations. The game needs to try something different, and England is the one team that can capture the imagination of the wider public and attract the media coverage. England Knights will not do this.

[MatthewWoody]

I think to make the Euros somehow competitive and interesting you'd need the Aussie based eligible players. So midseason is impossible. 

Let's see what happens. I'd like GB to play in order to formally have England in the Euros. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I think to make the Euros somehow competitive and interesting you'd need the Aussie based eligible players. So midseason is impossible. 

Depends on the teams. France, Ireland, Wales and Scotland could all still turn out fairly decent teams. Italy and Greece would be stuffed.

[langpark]

40 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Depends on the teams. France, Ireland, Wales and Scotland could all still turn out fairly decent teams. Italy and Greece would be stuffed.

You disappoint me. With a name like yours I would expect you to know your stuff. Putting Scotland in the same category (or same galaxy) as France, domestically, shows how little you know. 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

38 minutes ago, langpark said:

You disappoint me. With a name like yours I would expect you to know your stuff. Putting Scotland in the same category (or same galaxy) as France, domestically, shows how little you know. 

 

Sorry to disappoint you. In fairness though, I never claimed what you've said. 

[langpark]

3 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Sorry to disappoint you. In fairness though, I never claimed what you've said. 

You implied it. 

Greece has 9 teams (according today's article on the ERL site) Scotland has 2-3. So perhaps even Greece (who you say would be "stuffed") would be capable of beating the Scots. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, langpark said:

You implied it. 

No I didn't. I made no reference to their domestic competitions whatsoever.

4 minutes ago, langpark said:

Greece has 9 teams (according today's article on the ERL site) Scotland has 2-3. So perhaps even Greece (who you say would be "stuffed") would be capable of beating the Scots. 

Greece without their Australian based players? I respectfully disagree.

[MatthewWoody]

6 hours ago, langpark said:

You implied it. 

Greece has 9 teams (according today's article on the ERL site) Scotland has 2-3. So perhaps even Greece (who you say would be "stuffed") would be capable of beating the Scots. 

The only chance for the tournament to be somehow intense and competitive for England is with the other European teams fielding their best heritage players. 

With their English based heritage players Scotland is miles ahead of Greece, especially if Greece can't field their Australia based contingent.

The number of clubs has nothing to do with it. 

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Evidently the WRL are the National Governing Body for the game in Wales. 

Evidently the RFL also still have a constitutional interest in and purpose towards the sport of Rugby League across the UK and Ireland.

RFL have to have that though, really, else they couldn't have NW or WW in the league system.

Beyond that, what role could they actually have in Wales?

All of the funding and even political directives that could support any of the things we're talking - with the sole exception, possibly, of sponsorship income and we never seem to be swimming in that - are devolved and require the NGB to be in Wales and for Wales.

So, to repeat the point, rugby league in Wales is the responsibility of Wales Rugby League. Clue's in the name.

[langpark]

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

The only chance for the tournament to be somehow intense and competitive for England is with the other European teams fielding their best heritage players. 

With their English based heritage players Scotland is miles ahead of Greece, especially if Greece can't field their Australia based contingent.

The number of clubs has nothing to do with it. 

Yes I was talking about local Scots only. 

[Archie Gordon]

In the future, couldn't we hold the Euros as a summer (NH) event? England aside, the teams involved aren't calling on NRL first graders so much and I can't see NSW/Qld Cup players being banned by the NRL from travelling if they want to.

[MatthewWoody]

10 hours ago, langpark said:

Yes I was talking about local Scots only. 

With local Scots only, it would be useless for England (full test time or Knights, no difference) and an embarassing for the game. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by MatthewWoody

[superten]

A big mistake fielding the England Knights. To me the competition has now become worthless. Wane should have been able to select a team . We could have picked a mixture of first team player plus a couple of younger players to bed them into first team. 

As for the format I would have two pools of four. Top pool would have the best four teams in , playing a round robin. The top two would go into the semis. The third place team would play the runners up in pool two for a place in the semis. While fourth place team would play group two winners for a place in the semis. 

Pool A England , France , Ireland , Wales

Pool B Italy , Scotland , Serbia , Spain             

[Toby Chopra]

On 24/11/2022 at 07:48, ShropshireBull said:

Its the Knights,who absolutely shouldn’t take part in a comp where results have an influence on World Cup spots. 

Good luck commercializing this. Part of me hopes Eng get left with sweet FA so it finally sinks into the skulls at the RFL they are actually going to have to do their job and grow a viable comp up here. 

This would be the disaster scenario, but you might well be right 

[Number 16]

My God. This thread is like two bald men fighting over a comb.

That said, RL Geek does even know he's hairless!

[Tommygilf]

13 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

This would be the disaster scenario, but you might well be right 

A necessary evil though perhaps?

Its bad that it has got to this stage, but it may be the only thing that breaks the RFL's myopia.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Has it been confirmed as the Knights then?

If so, you've lost all your media interest straight away.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Has it been confirmed as the Knights then?

If so, you've lost all your media interest straight away.

They can't confirm it yet, either way. 

The RFL are holding out for NZ to come tour here next year. The Kiwis I suspect don't particularly want to spend another year playing in the NH when they might not have to with the Oceania Cup TBC. By all reports it seems Samoa, Tonga, Fiji or PNG haven't been approached by the RFL and Australia are talking up a 2024 tour for them instead.

So it seems until the Kiwis say they are or are not coming, there is no confirmation on whether England or the Knights will be playing in this tournament from the RFL.

But yes, for this Euros tournament to hold any media/TV interest it has to be England playing in it, not the Knights.

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They can't confirm it yet, either way. 

The RFL are holding out for NZ to come tour here next year. The Kiwis I suspect don't particularly want to spend another year playing in the NH when they might not have to with the Oceania Cup TBC. By all reports it seems Samoa, Tonga, Fiji or PNG haven't been approached by the RFL and Australia are talking up a 2024 tour for them instead.

So it seems until the Kiwis say they are or are not coming, there is no confirmation on whether England or the Knights will be playing in this tournament from the RFL.

But yes, for this Euros tournament to hold any media/TV interest it has to be England playing in it, not the Knights.

I know it's minor in the scheme of things but Wales need to be offering S4C at least one broadcast quality home game in both men's and women's.

They've Welsh speakers on their staff so they can even handle comms if required.