European Championships 2023 - Confirmed by ERL

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Of which England, despite their abject failure in this tournament, are. 

Yes, England - if it is full England - should win their games quite easily.

The alternative appears to be that England don't play at all. That would be unacceptable.

And, regardless, the games between the other nations should be competitive.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

The inclusion of Spain and Serbia into that top group is asking for some blowouts IMO, especially if it's the full England team. Why have they gone away from the 4-team top group that they've done previously? 

If it's England Knights then that will confine the tournament to minimal profile/publicity, which consequently runs the risk of better players tossing it off and not playing. Whilst some posters are enthusiastic about the news (as am I), we shouldn't expect this to be transformative in developing the nations involved, as without a full England team it will be very similar to the previous Euro competitions which have been run for years.

 

[crashmon]

england football play albania,andorra,San Marino in football euro /wc qualifers.  I don't recall people saying we should only pick england players from the conference for those games?

[gingerjon]

It's quite a worry when I'm dangerously close to being the most enthusiastic person on a thread.

[Jughead]

34 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, England - if it is full England - should win their games quite easily.

The alternative appears to be that England don't play at all. That would be unacceptable.

And, regardless, the games between the other nations should be competitive.

The alternative does not appear to be that in the slightest. 

It also appears this, thankfully, isn’t the full England side, though the outcome will be much the same. 

I don’t think England of any kind should be playing for points or the results against England shouldn’t matter for the rest when it comes to qualification for the next tournament seeing as England have qualified and it’s likely to have an effect on the tables. 

I hope even if it’s the Knights it’s not played at the same places and places like Kingston Park, York, AFC Wimbledon will be sued as venues and not Leigh, Warrington and Headingley, as is the norm. 

[paulwalker71]

The groupings seem strange...

Serbia and Spain are in Group A despite never qualifying for the World Cup.

Yet Greece, who were in the World Cup, have been dumped into Group B.

I thought were were all optimistic that Greece, with a genuine domestic league, was an area for development? Yet places like Ireland and Scotland, who have barely any domestic activity are ahead of them.

It doesn't seem like development is being rewarded.

[gingerjon]

Just now, paulwalker71 said:

The groupings seem strange...

Serbia and Spain are in Group A despite never qualifying for the World Cup.

Yet Greece, who were in the World Cup, have been dumped into Group B.

I thought were were all optimistic that Greece, with a genuine domestic league, was an area for development? Yet places like Ireland and Scotland, who have barely any domestic activity are ahead of them.

It doesn't seem like development is being rewarded.

It's based on past performance in the European Championships (from memory).

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I hope even if it’s the Knights it’s not played at the same places and places like Kingston Park, York, AFC Wimbledon will be sued as venues and not Leigh, Warrington and Headingley, as is the norm. 

If it's the Knights then it's going to be difficult to market these games as events to the wider public, so I can see them playing safe and staying close to home.

[Jughead]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

If it's the Knights then it's going to be difficult to market these games as events to the wider public, so I can see them playing safe and staying close to home.

Where there’s a lack of interest in games anyway? It’s a damned if they do, damned if they don’t situation. 

There’s a realistic opportunity to have England playing games in London, the North East, Midlands, Yorkshire, Lancashire and/or Cumbria in one calendar year. 

[idrewthehaggis]

This is tremendous and is the very least the international game should do.

It provokes a number of question.

How do we manage possible dispiriting blow outs?

Should this tournament be played in October or at the same time as SOO so NRL heritage players can play?

What will the tournament structure be and where should be played?

[corkonian77]

14 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

The groupings seem strange...

Serbia and Spain are in Group A despite never qualifying for the World Cup.

Yet Greece, who were in the World Cup, have been dumped into Group B.

I thought were were all optimistic that Greece, with a genuine domestic league, was an area for development? Yet places like Ireland and Scotland, who have barely any domestic activity are ahead of them.

It doesn't seem like development is being rewarded.

In Ireland  the season  is greater than the off season  for other sports.

 

[eal]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

England & France host a group each. Make it a proper tournament feel. Where could the final be?

Leigh

[Jughead]

I don’t share the sentiment that England B in a tournament that has a direct effect on how World Cup qualification works is a good move. If Australia B were in a similar situation, it would go down like a lead balloon here. 

The only fair way I can see this going ahead is if the tables aren’t effected by the results of games against England and France. 

[MatthewWoody]

24 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

This is tremendous and is the very least the international game should do.

It provokes a number of question.

How do we manage possible dispiriting blow outs?

Should this tournament be played in October or at the same time as SOO so NRL heritage players can play?

What will the tournament structure be and where should be played?

Origin is during the season, so I'd find it very hard to see Aus based players flying to Europe.

In postseason and with the aim of a World Cup qualification, yes.

About England, have decided it is better to play this Euros and no teams from the SH? 

[MatthewWoody]

I think it can work, if properly organised and marketed. 

If it's confirmed we'll have the full Eng and Fra playing, we shuild build on the wait. For examples, an Italian eligible players is doing well in SL, we wanna have him talking about the prospect of that game v England in London, etc. The same goes with Scottish, Irish etc eligible players. 

With WC qualification at stake, this can be the chance to have the best heritage and local players involved. 

Tickets should be available asap, to build on this World Cup enthusiasm. 

[Derwent]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

England & France host a group each. Make it a proper tournament feel. Where could the final be?

LSV on a wet wednesday night.

[Man of Kent]

It is what it is. World Cups are great but we can't have them every year so if we want meaningful competition in the Northern Hemisphere we have to play each other.

That said, I wonder if RLWC21 points to a future where there are 'festival' type European comps held in one region/nation featuring mens, womens and wheelchair teams (and maybe U19s and PDRL) with, perhaps, an overall winner decided across the formats.

We have similar in tag RL with the British & Irish Cup. The winner of the cup is whoever wins the most of the various comps -i.e. mens open, womens open, mixed open, mens seniors, womens seniors, mixed seniors etc. 

Just a wacky idea.

 

[idrewthehaggis]

1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

I think it can work, if properly organised and marketed. 

If it's confirmed we'll have the full Eng and Fra playing, we shuild build on the wait. For examples, an Italian eligible players is doing well in SL, we wanna have him talking about the prospect of that game v England in London, etc. The same goes with Scottish, Irish etc eligible players. 

With WC qualification at stake, this can be the chance to have the best heritage and local players involved. 

Tickets should be available asap, to build on this World Cup enthusiasm. 

43 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It is what it is. World Cups are great but we can't have them every year so if we want meaningful competition in the Northern Hemisphere we have to play each other.

That said, I wonder if RLWC21 points to a future where there are 'festival' type European comps held in one region/nation featuring mens, womens and wheelchair teams (and maybe U19s and PDRL) with, perhaps, an overall winner decided across the formats.

We have similar in tag RL with the British & Irish Cup. The winner of the cup is whoever wins the most of the various comps -i.e. mens open, womens open, mixed open, mens seniors, womens seniors, mixed seniors etc. 

Just a wacky idea.

 

Fair dos, i agree with much of what you say. I wonder for the sake of competitiveness that there should be two competitions - first a qualification tournament (excluding France and England and a proper final of the two qualifier and France and England held at one venue over a fortnight. A multi RL festival as you say. 

[MatthewWoody]

11 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Fair dos, i agree with much of what you say. I wonder for the sake of competitiveness that there should be two competitions - first a qualification tournament (excluding France and England and a proper final of the two qualifier and France and England held at one venue over a fortnight. A multi RL festival as you say. 

Small federations would choose to pay (flight, hotels, camp) for the WC qualification game, not for next part.

 

[Jughead]

23 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Small federations would choose to pay (flight, hotels, camp) for the WC qualification game, not for next part.

 

One game, two tournaments. Simple. 

Any games vs England and France count in the Rob Burrow European Bowl (its just for example purposes before anyone moans) only but Wales v Ireland, for example, counts for the European Championships, which goes towards the World Cup qualification, and the Rob Burrow European Bowl, with two points on offer for each competition.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 hours ago, Jughead said:

Where there’s a lack of interest in games anyway? It’s a damned if they do, damned if they don’t situation. 

I agree - they should take internationals to new places and look to find a new audience.

2 hours ago, Jughead said:

There’s a realistic opportunity to have England playing games in London, the North East, Midlands, Yorkshire, Lancashire and/or Cumbria in one calendar year. 

But the crucial thing is whether it is England or England Knights. Evidence suggests that a comp involving England will  enjoy coverage on the BBC, and the profile that accompanies it. England Knights won't get this coverage, so consequently the competition will have far less commercial value. Based on this and their track record, I can't see the RFL pushing the boat out for an England 'B' competition and promoting the competition in new areas to try and gain a new audience. I think they'll play safe and it'll be somewhere like LSV.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 hours ago, Jughead said:

I don’t share the sentiment that England B in a tournament that has a direct effect on how World Cup qualification works is a good move. If Australia B were in a similar situation, it would go down like a lead balloon here. 

Likewise, if an Oceanic Cup competition was announced next year including Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, and Australia 'B', I suspect that would go down like a lead balloon too. This is essentially what we'd be doing by entering England Knights in to a European Comp - completely devaluing it before a ball was kicked. 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, crashmon said:

england football play albania,andorra,San Marino in football euro /wc qualifers.  I don't recall people saying we should only pick england players from the conference for those games?

It’s not dangerous for amateur footballers to play professionals though.  

[Northern Eel]

5 hours ago, Leonard said:

ERL is also putting the final touches to its plans for its Wheelchair European Championships.

Excellent.

That's a really great proposition and one that excites me a great deal.

[Colin James]

Has to be called England and marketed as England. Don't want to hear the word Knights being used as it cheapens the whole thing. Take games to areas where seeing England is a selling point and a novelty regardless of the opposition.

If the coach uses it to test out fringe players that's fine but we should be selling it as the England team.