Thread on other Championship teams

[The Phantom Horseman]

8 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

       I will let my opinion rest and we will see who is right over the course of time.

We already know. The detailed scoring system that will decide who goes in SL etc after 2024 was published several months ago. It's not like we're waiting to find out what the new rules will be.

(see below)
https://www.rugby-league.com/uploads/docs/Grading Handbook (Final Version).pdf

 

[The Phantom Horseman]

7 hours ago, The Grinder said:

I do wish people would read/understand the IMG scoring system, though unlikely on so many levels, even if Fev win promotion to SL this year and finish top of SL in 2024 we can still be demoted out of SL in 2025 under the IMG grading system.

Under the IMG criteria of “performance” over the three years 2022, 2023 and 2024 we have managed 14th (2022) or 15th (depending on if the playoffs count), 13th (2023) assuming we win the GF and if we finish 11th in SL in 2024 11th an average placing of 13th/14th still probably scoring less points than Wakey & Toulouse. And that is before you look at the other criteria. Certainly no guarantee of a SL place in 2025.

Yep, and positions are based on post-play-off position so we ranked 15th in 2022 with Batley 14th.

And as you rightly say, league performance only makes up 20% of the criteria, and the incremental margins are tiny, only 0.1111 points between each ranking position. That pales into insignificance compared with, say, the catchment area scoring, where based on the information we have been given, Bradford will score a full point more than teams like us, Wakefield and Castleford (1.5 points against 0.5 points).

There are also a lot of points to be scored in the murky area of finance where it's very difficult for us fans to know how teams will score because obviously we don't have easy, detailed access to balance sheets, turnover etc.

 

 

[gazza77]

8 hours ago, The Grinder said:

I do wish people would read/understand the IMG scoring system, though unlikely on so many levels, even if Fev win promotion to SL this year and finish top of SL in 2024 we can still be demoted out of SL in 2025 under the IMG grading system.

Under the IMG criteria of “performance” over the three years 2022, 2023 and 2024 we have managed 14th (2022) or 15th (depending on if the playoffs count), 13th (2023) assuming we win the GF and if we finish 11th in SL in 2024 11th an average placing of 13th/14th still probably scoring less points than Wakey & Toulouse. And that is before you look at the other criteria. Certainly no guarantee of a SL place in 2025.

I accept that. I've yet to see anything published anywhere that would suggest that there could be multiple clubs going up and down each year however.

[The Blues Ox]

58 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

I accept that. I've yet to see anything published anywhere that would suggest that there could be multiple clubs going up and down each year however.

Although the grading process itself is complicated, the selection process is very easy. Its simply the highest graded teams make up the positions in SL. In my opinion I would be surprised if we didn't see the exact same 12 teams in SL that we have now once the grading process is finished but there also is the unrealistic thing where if say 5 Championship teams scored higher than 5 graded B Super League teams then those 5 teams would be elevated in to SL. We all know that's never going to happen but again the rules are pretty clear regarding selection after the scoring process.

[The Blues Ox]

As PH alludes to, scoring on the field for any promoted club is really going to make such a small difference that it is hardly worth worrying about and again its just my unpopular opinion that any promoted team this year would be in their best interests to stay part time and plow the central funding in to other areas to try and gain quick points. It literally makes no sense for the promoted team to splash their budget on players when the difference between a 11th place and a 12th place finish won't be the difference between staying up or not.

[lingaro]

It's ridiculous how can this be sport? 

[sentoffagain2]

6 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

As PH alludes to, scoring on the field for any promoted club is really going to make such a small difference that it is hardly worth worrying about and again its just my unpopular opinion that any promoted team this year would be in their best interests to stay part time and plow the central funding in to other areas to try and gain quick points. It literally makes no sense for the promoted team to splash their budget on players when the difference between a 11th place and a 12th place finish won't be the difference between staying up or not.

    Spot on again Oxy don't waste money giving 2 and 3 year contracts to players no better than those in The Championship.Get some decent SL players in for 2025.That's how this ongoing difference of opinions started in the first place.Don't waste brass.I do hope if we are promoted we don't forget where we came from League 1 and The Championship and promote a 14 or 16 team SL and below that a strong Championship with better funding.

[Fevrover]

9 minutes ago, lingaro said:

It's ridiculous how can this be sport? 

If part of this plan ? is to make fans flock back to the game heaven help us,its enough to put you off going lol.

[eltel]

35 minutes ago, lingaro said:

It's ridiculous how can this be sport? 

 

23 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

If part of this plan ? is to make fans flock back to the game heaven help us,its enough to put you off going lol.

Sport died years ago it’s all about business and money money money and like footy we might as well just go to a players supermarket each week and see who’s on offer and buy one or two. This tapping the shirt badges is farcical loyalty in sport virtually doesn’t exist any more but I do understand players plying their trade for better security.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

10 hours ago, The Grinder said:

I do wish people would read/understand the IMG scoring system, though unlikely on so many levels, even if Fev win promotion to SL this year and finish top of SL in 2024 we can still be demoted out of SL in 2025 under the IMG grading system.

Under the IMG criteria of “performance” over the three years 2022, 2023 and 2024 we have managed 14th (2022) or 15th (depending on if the playoffs count), 13th (2023) assuming we win the GF and if we finish 11th in SL in 2024 11th an average placing of 13th/14th still probably scoring less points than Wakey & Toulouse. And that is before you look at the other criteria. Certainly no guarantee of a SL place in 2025.

(Although unlikely) Under the IMG system a team could win both the SL GF and CC and be replaced in SL the following season by a team from the Championship, or even L1.....

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, Fevrover said:

If part of this plan ? is to make fans flock back to the game heaven help us,its enough to put you off going lol.

You gain very few points on the scoring criteria for improving fan experience, unless they are in hospitality or watching on TV. Also eg why are 30 (+20 overflow!) places needed for journalists when I doubt more than 4 ever turn up at any game?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

As PH alludes to, scoring on the field for any promoted club is really going to make such a small difference that it is hardly worth worrying about and again its just my unpopular opinion that any promoted team this year would be in their best interests to stay part time and plow the central funding in to other areas to try and gain quick points. It literally makes no sense for the promoted team to splash their budget on players when the difference between a 11th place and a 12th place finish won't be the difference between staying up or not.

I think you've answered the question as to why Wakefield are looking (under Carter at least) to run with a small squad next season - they will have already seen provisional scores for every club.

Also on the subject of finances, as you say it's difficult for the fans to draw conclusions from the limited information published in the accounts of most clubs eg the new Bradford Bulls company have now published 3 sets of accounts and they all contain identical (nice round) numbers. Now I'm no accountant but that seems a little bit odd....

[Fevrover]

2 hours ago, eltel said:

 

Sport died years ago it’s all about business and money money money and like footy we might as well just go to a players supermarket each week and see who’s on offer and buy one or two. This tapping the shirt badges is farcical loyalty in sport virtually doesn’t exist any more but I do understand players plying their trade for better security.

Exactly right,only loyalty is from supporters.

[lingaro]

 

1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

You gain very few points on the scoring criteria for improving fan experience, unless they are in hospitality or watching on TV. Also eg why are 30 (+20 overflow!) places needed for journalists when I doubt more than 4 ever turn up at any game?

hope they count toward the attendance figures  

[sentoffagain2]

     Tight at the bottom. Keighley and Swinton both on 16 points   and after playing 26 matches their points difference is identical =323.However  Keighley have scored 86 more points so are third from bottom.Both teams involved in nail biters today.

[POR]

2 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

     Tight at the bottom. Keighley and Swinton both on 16 points   and after playing 26 matches their points difference is identical =323.However  Keighley have scored 86 more points so are third from bottom.Both teams involved in nail biters today.

AND whitehaven on 16 with points difference of 318 S so they not safe looks like there's going to be a lot more nail biting next sunday

[sentoffagain2]

9 minutes ago, POR said:

AND whitehaven on 16 with points difference of 318 S so they not safe looks like there's going to be a lot more nail biting next sunday

  Of the three i fancy Whitehaven at home to Toulouse more than Keighley at London and Swinton at Fax who have all to play for.Promotion and relegation rubbish isn't it.Crusaders in League 1 have won away at Workington Oldham and now Hunslet  to get to the play off final at Donny.That should be a good game next week .It will probably be free to view on The Sportsman.

[POR]

Just now, sentoffagain2 said:

  Of the three i fancy Whitehaven at home to Toulouse more than Keighley at London and Swinton at Fax who have all to play for.Promotion and relegation rubbish isn't it.Crusaders in League 1 have won away at Workington Oldham and now Hunslet  to get to the play off final at Donny.That should be a good game next week .It will probably be free to view on The Sportsman.

It is S watched  game today with our own George R commentating

[sentoffagain2]

      Just been looking at the final weekends fixtures what an exciting round.If results go as i think my predictions for the semi finals are Fev v London   and Toulouse v Sheffield.But we will have to sit back and wait for the outcomes.

[The Blues Ox]

Im going for Bradford 3rd, Sheffield 4th, London 5th, Fax 6th. Fax to beat Bradford in the 1st round and Sheffield to beat London then Fax to beat Fev and Toulouse to beat Sheffield giving us a Toulouse V Fax final. 

[sentoffagain2]

    Fax look nailed on for a place in the top 6.Good job Batleys season imploded.Still any teams to win or lose.I don't like the week off playing and winning builds up confidence and momentum.

[Fevrover]

9 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Im going for Bradford 3rd, Sheffield 4th, London 5th, Fax 6th. Fax to beat Bradford in the 1st round and Sheffield to beat London then Fax to beat Fev and Toulouse to beat Sheffield giving us a Toulouse V Fax final. 

NO disrespect to Fax but if we can't beat them at home in a semi final we don't deserve to go up.

[Monkeymagic22]

35 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

NO disrespect to Fax but if we can't beat them at home in a semi final we don't deserve to go up.

I agree, we were absolute garabge in the away match, and even nearly sneaked a win. Now with a full compliment of players and better coached under Ford, we shouldn’t be losing to anyone except perhaps a full strength Toulouse. No excuses this year and personally I’ll quietly confident.

[Fevrover]

16 minutes ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

I agree, we were absolute garabge in the away match, and even nearly sneaked a win. Now with a full compliment of players and better coached under Ford, we shouldn’t be losing to anyone except perhaps a full strength Toulouse. No excuses this year and personally I’ll quietly confident.

We played a weakened team in the cup and still could have won but got to give Fax credit they deserved it. Away nothing went for us but they were well up for it and again deserved it but they have struggled recently to get in play offs. Oxy didn't even think they'd get in at one point,they should beat Swinton at home even though Swinton are fighting for their lives.

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, Fevrover said:

We played a weakened team in the cup and still could have won but got to give Fax credit they deserved it. Away nothing went for us but they were well up for it and again deserved it but they have struggled recently to get in play offs. Oxy didn't even think they'd get in at one point,they should beat Swinton at home even though Swinton are fighting for their lives.

Its a strange one as just like last season I really fancy our chances of beating Fev in a semi if we were to get there but we never even got the chance last season and theres a really good chance that we don't again this year. That said I think there is a style clash between the two teams that really suits us and our tendancy to raise our game for the big ones then you just never know. 

Given how average we have been this season it makes me laugh that we are the only team in the competition who has beaten both Toulouse and Fev and yet we are scrambling to just make the playoffs. Ignoring Wembley it has been an awful season for us and if we were anywhere near the form we showed last season we would have walked 3rd and had a chance at 2nd. 

Its hard to see past a Fev win in the final with a likely average Toulouse team to beat at home with Fev in good form and at full strength. If that happens nobody can say they didn't deserve it.